Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Hardware › Hi-Def Source Hardware (Players, STB and Cable Boxes, Antennas etc) › Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

post #1 of 18
7/13/06 at 1:00pm
Thread Starter 
from a news summary of CED over on AVS

Quote:
-Sony's replication of Blu-Ray discs will hit 10 million by the end of the year. 2.5 million each from Europe and Japan, and 5 million from their Indiana plant. About 30% of those from their US plant will be dual-layer (no number given for the other 5 million). Some will be used for PS3 games.

lots of questions still left- such as, are these figures the projected actual viable yields or just the raw total of what will be manufactured.

But the forecast is being optimistic as no mention is made of the percentage of the other 50% that will be dual layer- so it may be a case where , worldwide, dual layer only acounts for 15% (worst case)-30%(best case).
Reply
post #2 of 18
7/13/06 at 2:38pm

Re: Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

I hope they're right, I want to see some decent BD discs.
Reply
post #3 of 18
7/13/06 at 2:44pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

Larry, I dunno what factors, if any, besides A/V you are using when you say 'decent', but Peter Bracke just reviewed the Punisher on Bd and was very complimentary of the a/v quality.
I'm sure that the Bds will look much better, more consistently going into the fall.
Don't know about extras tho (the Punisher is supposed to be light on those, iirc).
Reply
post #4 of 18
7/13/06 at 3:01pm

Re: Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

Off topic ( I guess ): Funny how reviews and opinions vary from user to user. My first impression is that HD is actually creating more division with regards to A/V judgements vs. leveling them out.

Re: The Punisher - HTF's Rachael B was critical of the A/V quality

Haven't seen it and likely won't but the difference in opinions caught my eye.

- Walter.
Reply
post #5 of 18
7/13/06 at 4:01pm

Re: Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

Actually the fact that other studios plan to use VC-1/H264 with Dolby Plus/True HD & DTS HD for their releases would make the demand for BD50 less, only Sony who uses MPEG2 & uncompressed PCM would actually need BD50 immediately. So these numbers seem in line.
Reply
post #6 of 18
7/13/06 at 5:24pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Kittel
Re: The Punisher - HTF's Rachael B was critical of the A/V quality

missed that thread. The disparity there though is very odd. Wonder what can possibly account for it.
Reply
post #7 of 18
7/13/06 at 6:58pm

Re: Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

Quote:
the fact that other studios plan to use VC-1/H264 with Dolby Plus/True HD & DTS HD for their releases would make the demand for BD50 less
If the BD people start claiming that BD50 isn't really "needed", and only used for "special" releases, with BD25 being the norm, that's going to be a tough sell. Why choose 25gb over 30?

BD50 had BETTER be the NORM. Using it only for "special" releases won't suffice. Sony will also look rather silly eating up BD50 space with MPEG2 just to get up to where VC-1 is with 30gb.
Reply
post #8 of 18
7/13/06 at 7:13pm

Re: Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

Quote:
Why choose 25gb over 30?

Compare apples to apples. Why choose 15GB over 25?
I'd rather have a maximum capacity of 50GB over 30GB.
Reply
post #9 of 18
7/13/06 at 7:32pm

Re: Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

Quote:
Why choose 15GB over 25?
Nobody said that choice should be made. The fact remains that 30gb is the NORM for HDDVD. Will 50gb be the NORM for BD?

Quote:
I'd rather have a maximum capacity of 50GB over 30GB.
In other words, you're saying 50 gb is preferable to 30 gb. What does that have to do with saying 25 is preferable to 30?
Reply
post #10 of 18
7/13/06 at 7:34pm

Re: Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
Compare apples to apples. Why choose 15GB over 25?
I'd rather have a maximum capacity of 50GB over 30GB.

If your maximum capacity 50GB Blu-Ray disc only exists so that Sony can continue to stupidly use MPEG-2, what's the point?

Vincent
Reply
post #11 of 18
7/13/06 at 8:36pm

Re: Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

Quote:
The fact remains that 30gb is the NORM for HDDVD

It may be the norm, it's also the maxiumum. There's no where else to go but other discs if more capacity is needed.
How good will King Kong look at nearly 3 hours? Probably pretty good, but not as good as a 50GB VC-1 "Superbit" version could.

Quote:
If your maximum capacity 50GB Blu-Ray disc only exists so that Sony can continue to stupidly use MPEG-2, what's the point?

50GB discs can be for more of course. Plenty of long films out there.
Plenty of extras to add.

At this point BD is like DVD in the early stage. How many DVD9s were there for the first few months. None. How many for all of 1997? A few. Now just about everything is. But it took a few years to get to that point. The transition to BD50 won't take as long of course.
Reply
post #12 of 18
7/13/06 at 8:56pm

Re: Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

Quote:
The transition to BD50 won't take as long of course.
It had better happen very quickly. If it's not here in quantity this year, BD will be in trouble.

Quote:
Plenty of long films out there.
Plenty of extras to add.
Unfortunately for Sony, they'll be so busy using up the extra space with MPEG2 that they won't be able to afford putting extras (or long films) on BD50.
Reply
post #13 of 18
7/13/06 at 10:16pm

Re: Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
It may be the norm, it's also the maxiumum. There's no where else to go but other discs if more capacity is needed.
How good will King Kong look at nearly 3 hours? Probably pretty good, but not as good as a 50GB VC-1 "Superbit" version could.

Who said 30GB was the max for HD-DVD? Current HD-DVD's are maxed out at 30GB a disc and frankly that's all they need at the moment. However, incase more space is needed, a 3 layer 45GB disc is in the testing phase and it's been successful so far in those tests. So it could be released in the near future if that much capacity is needed.

Who knows, maybe a 4 layer 60GB HD-DVD disc will be possible. Right now it's only theoretical, but if it becomes a reality than I'm sure movies like LOTR Extended Editions with all of the supplements found on every LOTR movie released previously on DVD and new extras/supplements could fit in that capacity.

So to clarify, 60GB is the theoretical maximum of HD-DVD.
Reply
post #14 of 18
7/13/06 at 11:21pm

Re: Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

Quote:
a 3 layer 45GB disc is in the testing phase and it's been successful so far in those tests. So it could be released in the near future if that much capacity is needed

30GB is the max in the SPEC. Whether or not they are actually able to mass produce a 3 layer disc the PLAYERS may not accept them. Besides, its just a tech demo, and they demoed the same for DVD a few years ago. Since HD DVD is structured the same, but it remains to be seen if they can make it work.
This is just like the eight layer BD disc. (Quad layer is actually being mass produced by TDK). Sure, it's a nice tech demo, but the BD spec for players call for no more than 2 layers.
Reply
post #15 of 18
7/14/06 at 12:22am

Re: Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
It had better happen very quickly. If it's not here in quantity this year, BD will be in trouble.

Unfortunately for Sony, they'll be so busy using up the extra space with MPEG2 that they won't be able to afford putting extras (or long films) on BD50.

Not really, nothing's going to be decided by a small amount of early adopters in the first 6 months of release, unless Tosh's sales go flat, which is a possibility considering they're the only ones manufacturing HD-DVD Players and there's only 2 studios releasing on HD-DVD.

I could also point out, that while Sony is using Mpeg 2 at this time, there's no reason to believe all of the other studios will.

Or I could point out that HD-DVD is pretty much at capacity on more than a few of their titles, and have no HD extras on the discs. So they've been out for what? 4 months? And they're already out of space to include even HD extras.

I could be wrong, but HD-DVD might even be out of space without offering the better audio tracks as well.

Quote:
So to clarify, 60GB is the theoretical maximum of HD-DVD.

And 100 gigabytes is the theoretical maximum of BR, 75 gigabytes has already been demostrated as producable.

There's alot of points that can be argued in HD-DVD's favor, none of them appear in this thread. BR's got more capacity, BR can use VC1 just like HD-DVD, and HD-DVD is already pushing it's capacity while missing features.
Reply
post #16 of 18
7/14/06 at 3:05am

Re: Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan-G
Not really, nothing's going to be decided by a small amount of early adopters in the first 6 months of release, unless Tosh's sales go flat, which is a possibility considering they're the only ones manufacturing HD-DVD Players and there's only 2 studios releasing on HD-DVD.

I could also point out, that while Sony is using Mpeg 2 at this time, there's no reason to believe all of the other studios will.

Or I could point out that HD-DVD is pretty much at capacity on more than a few of their titles, and have no HD extras on the discs. So they've been out for what? 4 months? And they're already out of space to include even HD extras.

I could be wrong, but HD-DVD might even be out of space without offering the better audio tracks as well.



And 100 gigabytes is the theoretical maximum of BR, 75 gigabytes has already been demostrated as producable.

There's alot of points that can be argued in HD-DVD's favor, none of them appear in this thread. BR's got more capacity, BR can use VC1 just like HD-DVD, and HD-DVD is already pushing it's capacity while missing features.

There are three studios now releasing titles for HD DVD. Paramount is releasing ten titles in the next three weeks. There are no HD extras on HD DVD yet simply because there is none available. Finally HD DVD at 30GB is not running out of discs space that's just plain old FUD.

Look here for the Paramount movies. http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/releasedates.html
Reply
post #17 of 18
7/14/06 at 4:12am

Re: Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

Quote:
nothing's going to be decided by a small amount of early adopters in the first 6 months of release
Early adopters are the ones who decide if a format fails (they can’t guarantee success). IF BD starts saying BD50 is coming in yet “another” six months, people’s patience will wear thin.
Quote:
unless Tosh's sales go flat, which is a possibility considering they're the only ones manufacturing HD-DVD Players
Why would sales go flat if people are happy with the players? The satisfaction rate is extremely high.

Quote:
Sony is using Mpeg 2 at this time
They’ve been very vocal in saying it’s better and they will stick with it (of course, the fact that they make money from using it has an influence…).
Quote:
HD-DVD is pretty much at capacity on more than a few of their titles
An expert in the use of VC-1 has posted on AVS that file sizes haven’t been optimized yet because there’s been no need to. He says there’s plenty of ability to do so. Also, thanks for reinforcing the point that BD CANNOT make the claim that they don’t need BD50. They DO need it, else they don’t have a good case for the format.
Quote:
BR's got more capacity
As of now, they have less capacity. They will be able to say they have more when they SHOW (not just claim for the future) that the typical BD title is BD50, and in QUANTITY, not just a few titles.
Reply
post #18 of 18
7/14/06 at 11:16am

Re: Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06

I hope BD Dual layer is better than DVD dual layer. I have nothing but problem with DVD dual layer. Only Verbatim works best for me even that still give me problem sometimes and the rewritable Dual layer is nowhere to be found. I really think the Hidef TV is finally taking off (Check out Bestbuy and Circuit city. HDTV plasma and LCD is pretty taken over tube TV now) Poeple want Hidef recording device to record their TV shows and hope the disc become as cheap as blank DVD.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Hardware › Hi-Def Source Hardware (Players, STB and Cable Boxes, Antennas etc) › Sony expects Dual Layer discs to account for 30% of total ouput in 06