Avatar (James Cameron) - Page 9  

I think we should be grateful that Cameron isn't willing to sit on his laurels and keeps pushing the cinematic envelope.  If Avatar ends up being a turd, I'm more than willing to call it a turd, but not until I've actually seen the film.  Some of the naysaying does feel like history repeating itself, but Cameron's track record is better than most filmmakers with such ambitious aspirations for the artform of films/movies.

Like I mentioned before, the story does seem very cookie cutter, very disney.  In the back of my mind though I remember thinking that Titanic would be stupid because we know the story.  I just tend to believe that after so many years of development that that there is more to it then we can see in a trailer.  I'm actually enjoying my diminished expectations. 

Story seems meh, effects look outstanding. I'll reserve judgment until I see it, but so far I'm underwhelmed with the apparent cliches of the storyline.

I'm really impressed with the design of the gunships. They not only look freaking cool, they look like something we could build today. (And yes, I know we have various VTOL vehicles, but this design just seems really elegant.)

The native savage versus the colonial invader story is the story of America, more or less, and has been with us as long as cinema has. Movies like Starship Troopers are much more of a cliche, if you want to use that term, because most of the Westerns and adventure movies have taken the side of the colonial invaders. We've just gotten more of the revisionist Westerns lately. To me, the use of either archetype -- the brave cowboys settling the unruly frontier or the noble savages defending their lands from hostile foreigners -- is less important than the specific story, the manner in which it unfolds, and the characters that populate it.

What I know is that the 10 minute IMAX 3D preview was one of the most remarkable things I've ever seen. As an experience, this will be unprecedented. The artifical 3D of live action IMAX releases like Superman Returns and the last two Harry Potter movies is not the same thing.

....And when the final battle comes he must decide which side he is truly on and what's truly worth fighting and dying for....

Can I get a screenplay credit?

There are, what, 7 basic stories, it's not just about the overall plot, but the execution.

The execution is what I'm really looking forward to. Titanic is a film that I'm not ashamed to say I love, but aside from the actual historical elements, there is a lot of cliched plotting and wooden dialouge. However, when put together as a complete viewing experience, it really sucks me in every time. This is a case where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I am really getting a good vibe from the latest trailer, but I'll hold off commenting any further to avoid sounding like a delusional fanboy.

Storywise I still have negative feelings, but from a visual standpoint this film looks like it could be amazing, even with all of the uncredited anime' rips. For some reason, I thought his choice to make the Navi four fingered was interesting. 

Why is that?
probably just easier to animate.

Possibly: although, I doubt that it could be all that difficult to animate a fifth finger. Even some of Pixar's characters have five digits nowadays. I just thought it was a small touch to differentiate the "Avatar" character from a true Navi, since the Avatar has five fingers, indicating the human origins of the character.

Agreed. Short of the original Terminator, most of Cameron's movies have not been terribly original, but I've enjoyed the hell out of them anyway. I'm willing to give this one a shot as well.

Originally Posted by Edwin-S 

 For some reason, I thought his choice to make the Navi four fingered was interesting.

That's been common practice for 80 years or so.

Is even the Terminator all that original?   Cameron was forced to acknowledge a Harlan Ellison story as the basis for it.

I think that has more to do with Ellison being a dick though. A normal human being would have let the passing similarities go.

True, but there's an awful lot of cliched and tin-eared dialog in this new preview. Don't get me wrong, I like Cameron, and I'm looking forward to seeing this regardless. I just think the plot/dialog is going to be substandard. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I'd rather that than to go in with mile-high expectations and be disappointed.

Saw the new trailer and it still leaves me cold. I think I'll wait for reviews before I check this out.

I don't disagree with you about Ellison, but the point is he couldn't have gotten away with being a dick about it if the story was truly original.

Why not? Dicks get away with shit all the time.

I believe the only reason Ellison was able to threaten a suit in the first place was because Cameron publicly praised Ellison's work as "inspiration," that doesn't make it subject material though. Ellison used Cameron's words as basis for a shake down, and the studio obliged to keep the film out of jeopardy.

Has this been mentioned yet?

Poul anderson's "Call Me Joe"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=f5&q=cameron%27s+avatar+is+copied+from+call+me+joe&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Oops, It has post 225

Cameron's gift has always been story construction.  He builds his stories to resonate, to be internally consistent, and to work for a large audience.  You will not find a more ardent supporter and defender of Titanic, and that film has dreadful dialogue.  But it does not have a dreadful story, nor does it misstep in the flow of the narrative and presentation of themes.

I think David is correct to be cautious in his optimism.  The dialogue in the trailer isn't very good.  But I still have hope that the well-trod story will be well told.  I'm not worried about the visuals (and I hope Adam is correct about the 3D IMAX presentation...I want that to be something special).  I'm worried about Jim not being the director he once was or getting lost in the technology.  I don't see evidence for that (and I'll be both surprised and very disappointed if it turns out that way).

But it never hurts to be be cautious in your excitement and optimism.

As a long-term SciFi-fan, I always found Ellison's claim preposterous, and I'm sad about the studio settling it the way they did.

Now if Dennis Feltham Jones would have made a similar claim about Skynet's resemblance (including the short "history" as described in the movies) to the novel Colossus (a.k.a. The Forbin Project), I'd have to agree.
That novel is one of my favourites and it was the first thing I thought of when I first saw Terminator (and especially T2).

That said, I'm happy Jones' heirs (he died in 1981) didn't take that route. Cameron's story is powerful and original enough to be regarded as totally fresh (or at least fresh enough according to common literary standards).


Cees

The idea of a supercomputer taking over the planet, (or trying to) has been around a long time though.

^^ And the idea of a human taking on the form of an "avatar" is nothing huge either. Hell, Avatar will be at least the 3rd film just this year to feature such a premise as a major plot point.

I theorize that if you ask an average non-scifi person if these ideas sound similar they would say "absolutely yes." But for the genre, surrogate beings and time travel are like lawyers and planes.

That's the best thing I have read all day - you are exactly right!

I trust in Cameron's abilities as a storyteller.  Personally, I think it's stupid to get worried about a film based on a trailer -- a trailer I really like, by the way.  For example, I think the trailer for Legion sucks eggs but I trust that the premise is strong enough to get me in the theater to see it. 

As I watched the trailer for Avatar, I noticed something.  Most of the "dialog" is voice over -- watch it and see.  I think they tried to create a mini-film to set us up so we would understand the story.  All of the lines are out of context.  Words and visuals -- that's it.
Edited by Brett_M - 11/17/09 at 6:17am

I fully expect a backlash for this piece of news:

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Atlantic-Records-1076978.html

why?

Because it's an attempt at recreating the success of Celine Dion's song from Titanic. Plus, people need something to complain about.

Beyond that, "My Heart Will Go On" is one reviled song by many, so to have another Jim Cameron film / James Horner score with a song attached, anyone who hated that song will go into this one with their minds made up already.

For me, hearing that song in context is no problem at all, and can be very moving but I cringe like anyone else when I happen to be in a grocery store and hear it on the radio. This film doesn't look to have that universal appeal Titanic did, and therefore I doubt the song will be as successful but I'm betting that no matter how good this song could potentially be quality-wise, it's still going to be compared and probably disliked.

To listen to a great sample of the score, go to: 

http://www.avatarscore.com/

The album is out December 15th from Atlantic.

Tracklisting:

1. "You don’t dream in Cryo…“
2. Jake enters his Avatar World
3. Pure Spirits of the Forest
4. The Bioluminescence Of The Night
5. Becoming one of "The People“
    Becoming one with Neytiri
6. Climbing up "Iknimaya – The Path to Heaven"
7. Jake’s First Flight
8. Scorched Earth
9. Quartich
10. The Destruction of "Home Tree"
11. Shutting Down Grace’s Lab
12. Gathering all the Na’vi Clans for Battle
13. War
14. "I see You“ (Theme From AVATAR) performed by Leona Lewis