Avatar (James Cameron) - Page 7  

Fan response is telling.

One worn out YouTube gag is the sum total of fan response?

perhaps avatar could be episode 1 all over again.. but there is a difference. james cameron can actully direct a movie.. unlike uncle george.

Jacob

Nearly all big-time directors reach an age in thier lives were they seem to lose the touch to direct. For proof of this check out the Spielberg disapointment thread, or watch Alfred Hitchcocks final 4 movies.

I'm not even talking about the quality of the movie. After all the hype, the 3-D, the $300 million dollar budget, and the dozen years of waiting for Cameron to get back to features, some people's expectations are so off the charts that the only thing that could deliver what they want is a religious experience. And if they 'only' get a good movie, they're going to be pissed and proclaim the movie a failure.

The gag may be worn out, but the observations are bang on.




I can't speak for other people but I'm not looking for a religious experience; however, with a 300 million dollar budget I would expect something better than just "good". From what I saw in that teaser the story doesn't even look good. If all Cameron can do, with 300 million dollars, is regurgitate tired old tropes in a new coat of glossy paint then he should go back to his underwater documentaries. He couldn't even come up with some original looking designs for the hardware? The hardware all looks like the stuff we have seen in any number of Sci-Fi war films and video games.

For 300 million, Cameron could have given us a great adaptation of Haldeman's "The Forever War"; however, he seems to be delivering a warmed over, trite story about the peaceful -but primitive- blue, forest dwellers being beset by big, bad humans out on a mission of exploitation and stereotypical culture destruction. It took Cameron 14 years to stew something as tired as that up?!  Also, I think it is ridiculous that a bow and arrow Abo culture would be anything more than grist to a technologically superior military culture, but we get to see these ones actually being competitive against the humans. In reality, the Abos in this film would be ripped to bloody tatters by a force like that.......not actually holding their own.

Those are just a couple of problems I see with the film and that from just a short teaser trailer. It makes me wonder how many more concerns I would have had watching the full preview.

Wow. It sometimes feels like I'm the only one here (aside from Chuck) that's really excited for this. It's not just here, but all over the net. There just seems to be an overwhelming negativity (or just apathy) towards this film. For all the complaints about the lack of original ideas in Hollywood (or at least in genre fimmaking), you'd think more people would be happy to see a new original (ok, semi-original) big-budget sci-fi/fantasy epic from a respected action director no less. It seems now that there is no way any film can depict a totally new world without people complaining about "crappy CGI". Your brain will always know that it's not real. People are just too savvy about how these things are done nowadays. The reality is that there is no other way to realise these alien worlds without using CGI. You just can't go back to models and matte paintings, it just won't cut it. Some of the blame for this does have to be aimed at Fox and Cameron himself. The constant bragging about how this is a "game changer" that we've been hearing for the past year(s) will only set expectations that will never be matched. Compairing the CGI in Avatar to a video game is ridiculous. Aside from both originating from a computer, there is no comparison. The level of detail in the dropship scene alone is incredible (the scurrying animals, blowing leaves, bugs etc), never mind the large scale battle scenes we get glimpses of.


I see where your coming form. This scenario could play out like the something out of Return of the Jedi, but in the scriptment I read oh so many moons ago, Cameron goes to great lengths to explain that the whole planet is connected and not in some hippy notion of "we are all one, man". The Na'Vi, the animals, the plants, even the planet itself are connected. The invading humans are treated like a virus that the planet is trying to extinguish (even the air is toxic). It isn't just a bunch of Abos with wooden arrows fighting a technologically superior force.

There maybe other problems with the film that won't surface until we get a better look closer to it's release, but for now I'm really excited.

To be fair, I was not comparing the quality of the film's CGI to video game CGI. It is clear that the film's CGI is superior to any Video game CGI. Cameron has gotten quite far down the road to eliminating the "uncanny valley" effect that humanoid CGI characters evoke in people. Some of the movements of the character didn't seem quite right, but as a whole the CGI character is quite well done. I just find that a lot of the design concepts of the hardware and guns look very generic. The actual look of the gear is nothing that we haven't seen before in Sci-Films or games. In fact, it is the uninspired designs that make one think "video game-like".

Cameron was the one who was hyping this film as a leap forward, but from what I can see the "leap forward" seems to be more like maybe a "large step". If people seem to be disappointed at this time then Cameron has only himself to blame. Maybe other clips and trailers will cause one to change their mind but as of now this teaser seems to be a bit of a let down after all of Cameron's hyperbole.

 What I find disturbing is that people seem to be already judging the quality of the film just by seeing the trailer. I think it's fair to judge your own anticipation for the film based on a trailer, but when you start preconceiving story elements and then reacting negatively towards them, then you're being a bit unfair.

Darcy-

 

I don't mean this as an attack on the film or you, but wanted to address somethings that I think may explain why some people feel the way they do.
 

I'm not sure how it's original at all.  That's the problem I have with it.  The problem of having humanity as evil invaders who wish to crush indigenous species who are peace loving muckity-mucks has been around for some time.  Hell, even Twilight Zone (the new) or Outer Limits did it, and several films have been based on that concept.  So, I'm not sure how original the concept is.  

 

Part of that does have to be a blame toward him, because he has constructed a world from the trailer that defies gravity.   And it's cool from a CGI standpoint to see islands that float in mid air/etc. but they will be pinned in.. either they explain how gravity doesn't work on this planet, or they don't explain. One is a lot of worthless dialog, the other just makes sure the audience knows it's fake.

And I don't buy the idea that you "have" to use CGI to render alien worlds.  I've seen plenty of films that didn't use CGI but used real locations and were able to convey a foreign planet very effectively.  "Hoth" & "Tattooine" from SW were very well done, and they simply used a desert.  Caladan from "Dune" did a good job of being a water planet, and I don't remember lots of CGI in that.  The Dark Crystal was very effective with it's planet.  You don't "have" to use CGI to render an alien world.  You have to use it in this world Cameron has imagined because his planet defies all rules of science. 
 

 

I think this is where the real problem for this film lies.  I had not read the scriptment until I watched the trailer.  And, after I did, I had the exact same reaction as in the youtube video:  This is "Captain Planet" the TBS cartoon series on another planet.  Maybe the film will be vastly different, but if it's like the scriptment, it's an incredible Mother Earth/Environment as a unified body protecting against it's destruction, etc.  Once I read the scriptment, I had a lot of doubts.

This film could surprise me.  Maybe it will.  People forget, the summer before TItanic came out, there were lots of people saying it could be "Heaven's Gate" because of the budget and reports of panicked executives.  People were prepared for it to bomb.  But it took off.  Maybe it could happen here.  I just don't think so.  

Which is sad, I was pretty excited about this film, because of the promise of something truly mindblowing.  Even Panasonic had been floating talk that this film would help launch 3D home Televisions.. with that kind of hype, I guess you're just setup to be let down.

In general though, SciFi where humanity are clearly the bad guy doesn't fair so well.

GOD I HATE THE QUOTE SYSTEM... SO f-'in ANNOYING.

Not to mention that instead of cuddly Ewoks you have 12 foot tall aliens that are twice as strong as humans, twice as fast as humans, and ride vicious flying birds of prey. The humans have... guns.

No offense taken mattCR. The points you've made in your post are echoed all over the net. I guess that's why I'm a little puzzled at the reaction by so many people. Of course not everyone is going to be excited by this, that's just law of averages, but the shear number of people who have come down so negatively on this one is a bit strange. I guess having read the scriptment prepared me for what I saw (sadly, the IMAX 3D preview did not come to my neck of the woods despite our city having a true 3-story 3D IMAX screen). It was cool to not only see the images I had in my head come to life, but to just see the first new footage from a James Cameron film in 12 years.

I agree it's not the most original idea ever (the reason for my semi-original remark in my post), but for me it will all come down to the details. The "Dances With Wolves in Space" is a fair comparison (despite 20th Century Fox's annoyance over this comparison), but it is a type of story, like the "Hero's Journey" story arc used in countless books and movies. It will all come down to how Cameron tells his story.

While I can't argue the craft of the SPFX in those films, you just proved my point. "Hoth" & "Tattooine" were very simple environments to depict, essentially snow and sand. Even Yoda's swampy home world of Dagobah, while very large and expertly photographed, still just looks like a set for the most part. Same goes for Jim Henson's wonderful Dark Crystal. The forest scenes are filled with all sorts of plant and animal life and little details, but there is still only so much you can do with this. In Avatar, you have to have the freedom to wander around this world and not be restricted to 2 or 3 really nice sets. If some of the VFX looks a little "fake" I guess that's just the limits of the current technology. This is where I'm hoping the story and characters take over and everything else moves to the back of my mind.
Edited by Darcy Hunter - 8/29/09 at 4:08pm

Isn't "abos" something of a disparaging term down under?

And time traveling cyborgs trying to alter the past wasn't the most original idea when Cameron made the Terminator either. ;)

Really? In what other movies was the concept used prior to Cameron's TERMINATOR? I can't think of any offhand.

^^ I don't recall the details offhand but Cameron was actually forced to share credit for the Terminator, because it borrowed so heavily from something else. An Outer limits I think it was.

Abos is considered deragatory in Australia for Aborigines.  (just to answer the question above)

To be honest, I had intentionally avoided almost everything about this, until I saw the trailer.  I had read the technical articles and the praise that had been lavished on it from technicians, but when I watched the trailer, it was enough to make me seek out the scriptment/etc. to try and figure out what the heck I had just seen.  Like I said, I'll withhold judgement, I'm hoping the scriptment that's online was significantly changed.

"Cyborg 2087", starring Michael Rennie, released in 1966. Haven't seen it on tv since the 90's though. I need to find out if it's on DVD.

Harlan Ellison sued over claims Cameron ripped off two of his Outer Limits episodes with time travel elements. The eventual settlement resulted in the credit for Ellison added to the film on video.
I read once in an article that Harlan had a fit when he bought a Laserdisc of the movie, and the credit wasn't there! Some copies of the film got out before it was added apparently.

looks intersting to me.

Considering george directed THX-1138, American Graffitti and the original Star wars, I would disagree.

:)

I have mixed feelings about the trailer. It's the first piece of footage I've seen of the movie, so that's exciting. But, the CG I saw in it wasn't the convincing ultra-realistic imagery James Cameron said it would be. That's a bit of a bummer for me, but I'm still going to watch it. I just don't have the high expectations anymore, and that may just be for the best. If it turns out to be a great movie anyway then I'm happy too.
And yes, there were some strong reactions about Titanic's possible bombing too and that turned out very differently. But lightning rarely strikes twice.

Wow. It sometimes feels like I'm the only one here (aside from Chuck) that's really excited for this

you are not alone _I am very excited about Avatar - I have shown some friends the HD internet trailer and all have immediately wanted to see the film.

previously I had seen the HD trailer available off the internet, but today I went to see "The Final Destination" in RealD's 3D and saw a 3D trailer for Avater = wow!!!

the previous 3D trailer was Pixar's UP, which being an heavily stylised animation had very obvious 3D effects

Avatar's trailer in 3D was very subtle in places, which made certain scenes of the trailer really stand out - like Sam Worthington's character "Jake Sully" looking at his Avatar for the first time

I don't have expectations for Avatar being the 2nd coming of Christ, or some kind of religious experience, but just a great piece of film making that will entertain me and thrill me, and from I have seen of the trailer, and James Cameron's previous films, I am not going to be sitting there in the theatre twiddling my thumbs...

I don't have high expectations, in fact I have very few expectations.  It's an unknown story (IE not LoTR or Star Wars), so I can only form an opinion by a teaser so far.  It looks like somethign I will want to see, which is rare this year in movies. But I'm not going to get all worked up over a teaser.

of all the cameron movies that he has done, i have not been disappointed yet. i didn't like his Dark Angel (even if alba is hot). so yeah it doesn't work for him on TV, but i'm very interested in what story he has to bring us next in film =).

Readers on this thread might get a kick out of this blog on James Cameron (or not), but it was ultimately done with respect and a little bit of tongue in cheek.

hollywoodaholic.com/

And I'll be one of the first in line for "Avatar."

lol, that's pretty nifty blog lol =P

James Cameron talks avatar!


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2009/08/james-cameron-on-avatar-like-the-matrix-this-movie-is-a-doorway-.html

interesting interview... i wonder where part 2 and 3 are. i can't find it on their search engine.

http://moviescoremagazine.com/2009/10/avatar-score-will-be-epic-hugely-cinematic/

A bit of info on James Horner's music for the film

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/26/091026fa_fact_goodyear?currentPage=all

Fascinating article / interview about the genius and madness that is James Cameron. It's a long read.