Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman? - Page 3

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

I've whined about Civil War elsewhere, but I'll continue

The "political debate" in that merely illustrates how ridiculous comic books are at their core (Marvel is trying to be timely but missing the whole point of their own plot). Listening to Cap talk about his rights and responsibilities (I read New Avengers last night just to see Chaykin draw Cap) is like reading OJs opinion on laws. Cap has all these rights he wants protected, yet he breaks the law (and rights of other citizens) EVERY DAY wearing the mask and doing his job. It's elitist of this portrayal to think he should get special dispensation when his opponents get none. That's not Captain America. But Marvel has him totally wrong because they aren't playing the debate fair. Marvel editors/writers think of the problem as Cap thinks (which I feel is on the opposite side of the political/power spectrum than they think it is) of the problem (because Cap can't be wrong) in the comics, and they are loading the equation to "prove a point".

Cap is above ALL OF THAT. But no, a movie wouldn't do well outside of the States. I don't think it would do well IN THE STATES (regardless of how well crafted or written it was) because of homegrown myopia. But that's a political discussion for another forum

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

The modern Cap (and by modern I mean from his re-introduction in the 60s to the present) is very anti-establishment. He rarely, if ever, supports the government in anything (especially so after the 'Cap No More' saga in the early 300 issues).

The writers want to hold him to his so-called 'American Ideals", but they forget that a representative government is supposed to represent those ideals. You'd think that, every once in a while, that would actually happen.

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

I agree with that, and that is sort of my point. Civil War is a flawed premise because it's the same as evaluating the physics of Hulk's powers. It cannot be done and maintain credibility of the established universe. Superheroes are, by definition, people with power and anonymity who are ALLOWED TO BREAK THE LAW because the law believes they are doing it "for the good of everybody". There are NO CHECKS AND BALANCES to their application of force, no due process, nothing. So when a comic story divides the heroes to establish conflict, doing it in this manner (the law and individual rights) to try and "be relevant" completely undermines the suspension of disbelief all mainstream superhero comics need to survive.

Of course Cap has the right to wear his mask and not be forced to reveal his identity (his Civil War opinion). But if that's the case, he cannot speed, he cannot assault another person, he cannot break and enter, he cannot solicit, he cannot impersonate a civil servant, he cannot testify in a court of law, he cannot commit property damage or trespassing, etc, etc, etc, etc. I can go on and on. Civil War has great art, and I love watching Cap kick ass. LOVE IT. But the story makes my skin crawl. Furthermore, the motives of the writers make my skin crawl.

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

Well, I would say that Cap's problem (along with others on the anti-reg side) is being an employee of the government. In Cap's mind, he's probably wondering how long it will take a government leader to use his authority to make superheroes do something for his own agenda. What would heroes do when they don't agree with the cause they're sent to fight?

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

What about the populace when they don't agree with the "hero" or "villain" in a fight. It's their car/house/whatever getting destroyed. And that's a semantic argument, Brett. The Civil War Cap wants anonymity because the CWC thinks he knows what is best over the government. So he should judge when to break the law. The government is doing it's job. Controlling those who are allowed to usurp the law under certain conditions. Like sanctioned superheroes.

If the writers of the major storyline had a brain, they'd actually focus on how this would really go down, but they are happy to write off the government and non-powered citizenry as dolts with no opinion but what can fit into one text box in one panel. If something with some imagination was writing, there might be intrigue, counter-proposals, marches for BOTH sides, and a debate between a Senator from NY (with real interest in this) and one from Arkansas (which has no heroes apparently). Something to illuminate the condition of a superhero. What we are getting is infinitely more facile.

The public in a superhero world would have wondered long ago why these people with power are allowed to constantly make life or death decisions with no accountability. So they wouldn't care what Cap feels is appropriate. This is why they shouldn't tangle with real legal issues in comic books. Or REAL physics. Just establish ground rules, and only break them when you are brilliant. None of the CW writers meet that criteria.

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

What?! Have you forgotten RAZORBACK~?! Tsk!

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

I see your point, Chuck. Speaking purely within the confines of the fictional story itself, I think the problem is that part of the registration act makes sense, but other parts don't. For example, the accountibility factor: I don't see how any one (on either side) could be against this part. However, the revelation of identities and working for the government (and their purposes and ends) is something I can understand some heroes having a problem with. Like you said, though, in the real world, this would more than likely be parts of an eventual compromise.

I understand what you're saying now about how Cap looks a bit hypocritical, as he is concerned about his rights, yet not the rights of others. I hadn't really thought of it that way. Maybe you're right, though. These kinds of things have been happening for years in comics, but no one stopped to think of it until now. I mean, the Kree-Skrull War, Onslaught, all that, etc. surely would have resulted in casualties, but no one thought of it until now. So yeah, they're kind of inserting semi-logical reactions to things NOW, when similar said things have been happening for years. Interesting. At least that's what I think you're trying to say.

You're slowly bringing me over to your side of things, Chuck.

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

I don't want their to be a "my side" It's territory better left untouched by comic books There can't be intellectual consistency. I agree that ignoring registration and focusing on the forcing of them as government agents would make more "sense". But they are trying to make a "point" about current events with a framework wholly unsuited to the subtleties of the discussion

Superhero comic books are fascist. We have power. We have no accountability except our own morals. Trust us. Just the people to preach about personal liberties

So we've ironed out some nuances and improved the storyline in 5 minutes.

Why didn't they? Great art, though

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

I'll assume that you're leaving the covers out of that analysis. :-)

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

Yeah, I really like McNiven's pencils on it. I prefer a more "realistic" style as opposed to the more anime/cartoony looking stuff (except Joe Madureira).

And I'd say that in this argument, it's okay that there's just your side (so far...someone else might be able to come up with something) because I really had a hard time coming up with anything to refute the inconsistancy of the whole thing. The analogy of physics was a good one...it made a lot of sense. Sometimes it just seems like writers write things for the sake of writing them, when the same kind of thing could have happened earlier in continuity. For example, it took a school getting blown up to cause outrage? What about when the whole island of Genosha was taken out? Oh that's right, they're mutants. They don't count.

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

Well, they did, sort of. The comic "Damage Control" was about those who clean up after the messes superheroes make.

Jason

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

Reading the latest Frontline, I think Jenkins's position is clear, but it's fairly balanced.

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

Funny that you mention them. They're coming back this year in Wolverine I think. I hadn't thought about them. But still, people should have been pissed about innocent people dying BEFORE Civil War, as the Stamford incident isn't the first of its type.

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

I think everyone has forgoten about the "other" Captain America movie so it should be safe.

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0103923/

I saw it on video when it first came out. It's really bad. The problem I see with cap is that he doesn't have a good villian to go against. Red Skull is more like a bond villian or lex luthor and look how that turned out!

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

I haven't forgotten about that one. I actually liked it as a kid. I'm sure time and growing up would not be kind to it now though.

And Red Skull is a pretty cool villain. Other than that, there's Baron Zemo.

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

http://www.dragonhero.com/graphics/m...baron-zemo.jpg

I think he might look a little silly on-screen with a costume like that. If they make Red Skull a worthy opponent then it will work... I'd like to see a WW2 Captain America movie, fighting nazi's. Kinda like Indy did.

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

ummm, isn't this thread about DC superheroes making the move to the big screen?

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

You're probably right. There's a comics thread in After Hours that would probably better suit the current discussion.

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

This looks relevant for the subject of this thread:

SciFi Wire

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

Isnt Preacher being developed by HBO as a series?

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

This monkey see/monkey do attitude of Warner/DC will only hasten burn-out if they don't/can't keep their eyes on the ball- which is to simply tell engaging stories.
These movies don't all have to be mega extraveganzas and they don't need to kick off every new character/franchise with an obligitory formulaic origin film.
I just hope these things make it in the memos as well.

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

Garth Ennis (the book's creator) said he thinks that's probably not going to happen now.

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

Plastic Man! With the Washowskis! And Keanu Reeves! Maybe..

Silver. Wachowskis. Keanu. PLASTIC MAN?? -- Ain't It Cool News: The best in movie, TV, DVD, and comic book news.

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

I'm waiting for a THE FLASH film to come out. If I were a Hollywood director, I'd be extremely faithful to the comics, Wally West is my fave Flash, and know what to do to make a highly accurate adaptation. I wouldn't even deviate from most of the costumes and I'd film alot on loacation with the extremely tough stuff on location. Alot of practical effects should be employed and the CGI looking highly photorealistic and not that laminated plasticy shite either.
I'd have the film be shot 2.39:1 and on film stock. None of this HD video shit for me. Course I'd also have a highly dynamic sound field since Wally can run at extremely high speeds. I'd cast Ryan Reynolds and grab Mark Waid and Geoff Johns for the script. With Scott Kolins for the character designs. It'd be an overarching trilogy with each film having a long running time if I were a Hollywood director. Of course I'd have tons of villains since there's the Rogues Gallery.
Captain Cold, Heat Wave, Mirror Master, Weather Wizard,
Mr. Alchemy, Gorilla Grodd, Tar Pit and a hell lot of others. The comics are known for him fighting multiple enemies anyway.
Only a pipe dream! (Great video game too.)

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

The Flash is a hugely problematic character to do in a live action context.
Just think about the general premise here logically for a second: The whole point of the character is that he can operate a super speed. How do you show this? Trails? That was a big problem with the TV show- the time lag as people stood there immobile while the Flash ran around them in a circle tying them up, or driving stakes into the ground to cage them for example. You can't simply port over super feats from the comic because the comic panels operate independant of temporal reality. It is the same reason it is difficult to have Spidey or any other character continually quip thru a live action fight scene as much as they do on the page.
Any Flash derring do is predicated on quick, if not instantaneous resolution. If you want to be realistic, you are going to be sacrificing the cinematic.
Not saying it can't be done, just that a lot more thought has to go into this character and how to utilize him effectively than ever went into the TV show.

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

Ray. You had me at Ryan Reynolds.

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

Paul and Todd,
Oh, I'd go for slight realism but I'd go highly cinematic on The Flash. I also chose Ryan Reynolds as he's a huge fan of the Wally West version since I am too. And if I WERE a Hollywood director, I'd hire the fans of the characters so it'd be a very faithful adaptation. I'd also do a long and arduous (sp?) pre-production for storyboarding and pre-vis too.
Perhaps it'd be best to have alot of the super-speed from the POV as it would a speedster with a little of it as it'd be perceived from the villains and other characters. The Flash is actually one character where you can have multiple villains on screen and not feel overwhelmed by them. Largely due to the fact ole Flashy's Rogues have teamed up multiple times in the comics.
It'd certainly look real but not striving for the heavily realistic as say Christopher Nolan's Batman series. Of course I'd go for stylised but believable with alot of the origin stuff told in flashbacks with a bit of narration. Of course I'd have Reynolds do narration as done in the comics so as long as I'd be directing it, don't I wish!, I'd also be wanting to watch it.
Now who could be Jay Garrick? Dennis Quaid? Barry Allen would be in alot of flashbacks of course. Have Wally with his Speed Force-level powers? Meaning I'd already have Wally established as a character instead of a huge originy-type film. More origins as reminiscing and such too. I'd use practical on set effects with greenscreen at the studio and mixed with CG. Lots of miniatures and such too.
Hell, if even if I were directing, this would be a film, if I did do it dead-on, I'd even want to buy the action figures of. Sounds like a huge professional fan-film if I could direct it but dammit I have tons of respect for the character. Literally I own far more The Flash comics compared to any other DC comics character, including Batman and Superman. And if I were a Hollywood director, I'd be to The Flash on film as Guillermo del Toro is to Hellboy, if you know what I mean. Makes me wish I were a Hollywood director as this would be one of my top dream projects. Eh, one can only wish...

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

Assuming a being with this ability existed
He would need to be able to think as well as move at super speed to be able to anticipate and react appropriately.
It would naturally follow then that he would be on a much different plane of existence than anyone else. He would be the eqivilent of an 18 year old surrounded by 90 year olds. He would find it very hard to relate to normal people who operated at a significantly slower pace.
"Well, that just means he can control the ability"
The more control the character has, the more all-powerful he seems.
To me, there is an intersting premise in the idea of one man whose accelerated metabolism places him on a different plane of existence from the rest of humanity. I think that could make a fascinating character study. If the story is just about a guy running around in a costume doing things in a blur, it seems like it would quickly become tedious.Because there is another problem- if he is facing a specific antagonist, why couldn't he run up and have him in custody before he even finished the opening statements about his masterplan? You need to constantly place contrivances in the characters way to keep him from ever resolving a crisis or problem too fast. Those Contrivances will be transparently that, and will become frustrating for the viewer.
You will quickly develop a situation like in the first Superman movie where he turns back time. If he can do that once, why not just do it for every big problem that comes along? If Flash can turn on the extra super duper speed for a big climactic solution, why can't he do it for every mundane solution as well?
I just see a lot of pitfalls with this character in a live-action world...unless you went for a tone like the Batman TV series. And a straight adaptation of the comic would need to circumvent rigidly logical sense- and that would yield a 'camp' sensation. Personally, I don't think that would be a bad way to go..if you want to keep all the trappings of the comic.

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

David Goyer was writing and possibly attached to direct Flash for a while (often siting Ryan Reynolds to star). As far as I know it's still a possibility, but that damned Justice League movie has really fucked over a lot of DC properties. If they hadn't wasted so much time and resources on that, Flash might already be in full production, along with Green Lantern and Wonder Women, etc...

Re: Doesn't DC have any "Movie" quality heroes than just Batman & Superman?

I believe Green Lantern is still in pre-production. And I hope they use Hal Jordan. Who of course should be played by....

Nathan Fillion


Green Lantern (Hal)