*** Official SUPERMAN RETURNS Discussion Thread - Page 50

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Looking forward to seeing this again in HD, hoping that I will enjoy it more.

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Hope you do too Tino.

And Bryan, those moments you listed are indeed wonderful. Imagine all those soon to be enjoyed in HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. I sound like a commercial for HD movies.

I'll say this, if that Plane rescue in Dolby TrueHD has close to the impact that the Batman Begins HD-DVD does....I will need to take the pictures down from the wall Unreal.

I know we're not getting it, but I would LOVE an isolated HD score on this one. Maybe on a special edition down the road.

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The very beginning of this one will give me goosebumps, especially with a TrueHD track. The house may cave in once Krypton explodes.

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Just to respond to your response to my earlier post, J-El, Superman giving up his life to save others, is pretty much a given. I think everyone knows if he had to die to save all of mankind, he'd do it. Heck, most people would, wouldn't they? You'd do it if you knew one person worth saving. So, I don't see that it adds anything to the character or makes him "at his most selfless." Most people will die for someone, whether it was taking a bullet for a loved one or saving their whole planet by shoving a Kryptonite-laced mass into outer space makes little difference. The only fantastic thing is the physical feat. There are an infinite number of ways to give one's life to save someone and certainly more than a handful of people who would do it.

I think it shows more of a "super" selflessness when one is willing to condemn oneself to a lifetime of personal isolation for the benefit of all mankind. Perhaps that's part of the image Singer was trying to create by having Superman "not get the girl," but he kind of gets to have his cake and eat it too now since he HAS close personal ties, whereas in Superman II, he gave up such personal relationships so that he could better serve humanity. (This element could perhaps be strengthened in a sequel since, really, Superman should have to give up being a part of their lives for their own protection. He'd have to stop following them around and observing them, even, because his enemies could follow him and see he takes an interest in them, jeaopordizing them and him.)

Again, if Singer's movie existed completely separate from the Donner universe, his concepts might work better, but if you have the sacrifice of Superman II in your head, Superman chasing tail and being ensured some close personal ties to Lois and his son can leave a bitter taste in your mouth. The noble sacrifice of Superman II is wiped away, and Superman is now only as selfless as all but the most soulless person.

The other comment from one of your posts I wanted to comment on was the idea that Superman fReturns faced a tougher challenge capturing a movie audience than Batman Begins because it had been so long since a Superman film came out vs. Batman which had a movie not so many years ago. I disagree with that comment 100%. The lack of a Superman film for almost 20 years created an APPETITE for one. If anything, it should have HELPED it. The anticipation of a new Star Wars film made TPM a smash, despite it being less than stellar. A better example would be the tremendous hunger for a Spider-Man film which helped its success.

There hadn't been a Superman film for this generation, so it was something totally new for them to enjoy. I wanted to see the Man of Steel back on the big screen after all those years. That's why I went.

Batman on the other hand actually had a recent film going AGAINST it. The fact that Batman & Robin left a not-distant-enough taste of manure in audience's mouths made it a tremendous feat to sell a new Batman film. People who were in on the development of Batman Begins had a rough idea what to expect, but that's a minority. The general audience could easily have passed it up thinking "not another Batman film, ugh." I certainly wouldn't have gone to see George Clooney in "Batman: Mr. Freeze Strikes Back." That the film performed so well is a testament to its quality. And, yes, I'm sure a lot of holdouts earned appreciation when it hit video. So there will be a HUGE audience waiting in line for The Dark Knight.

A Superman Returns sequel likely won't draw nearly as huge a crowd for the opening. If the movie is really stellar, however, positive word-of-mouth could punch up its numbers in the long run.

The Dark Knight basically has to be a total suckfest to not have a VERY successful return at the box office.

That does lead to one advantage for Superman Returns, I suppose. The Dark Knight has a tall order to fill. It must live up to the quality of Batman Begins, if not deliver more. I don't feel Superman Hasn't Left Since He Returned has much of anything to live up to. It has nowhere to go but up, so chances are whatever Singer comes up with is going to look good when you have Superman Returns as your reference point.

That's WIN-WIN for every potential audience member. Those who didn't care for SR (if they see the sequel) will be satisfied to see an improvement, and those who loved SR will be on Cloud 9. Response to the Dark Knight could potentially be much more varied.

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From the sequel thread:


I don't think Superman's relationship to humanity, in any incarnation of the character, has anything to do with a pet owner's relationship to his pets. Your analogy, and my disagreement with it, helps me to understand why I personally never had a problem with the idea of Superman leaving Earth.


You've probably read that Singer interview where he mentions the "what have I done?" scene from an early draft of the script, in which Superman visits Ground Zero in Manhattan. How would you have felt about that?


Somehow it's become accepted, in the last couple pages of this thread, that SR was about Superman losing his connection with humanity and regaining it through the discovery of Jason. I just don't see this in the movie and never did.

You saw a deeper streak of selfishness in Singer's Superman than I did, Grant. The way I saw it, he clearly wasn't a selfless automaton and he certainly loved Lois - and maybe these are traits of a more "immature" Superman than the one you'd prefer to see - but when the chips were on the table, he chose saving Metropolis over Lois and Jason, and he chose serving humanity (and doing what was ultimately best for Lois) over being with the love of his life.

It would've been interesting if Lois and Jason had been killed on Lex's yacht while Superman was off protecting Metropolis... but I guess we've already seen that plot twist...

Anyway, I guess I just feel that it's easy to imagine Superman being 100% unconflicted and stopping bad guys. I can do that without waiting for a new Superman movie. It's more interesting to me when the "right" and "wrong" answers are not so obvious.

For instance, I would be interested in seeing a Superman film in which he attempts to deal with real problems that affect the world today... but if such a thing ever happens, you can be sure it will divide the fanbase in ways that make SR seem bland by comparison. (The Quest for Peace might actually have been a somewhat controversial film, if it hadn't been so laughably bad.)

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"The very beginning of this one will give me goosebumps, especially with a TrueHD track. The house may cave in once Krypton explodes."

Or when the meteor/ship lands.

"Somehow it's become accepted, in the last couple pages of this thread, that SR was about Superman losing his connection with humanity and regaining it through the discovery of Jason. I just don't see this in the movie and never did."

Me neither.

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The more I think about it and discuss it with others. The more I am certain in my opinion that the whole Supes leaving, Lois moving on and even the kid. Would have been better off if it was the last part of the Singer-Trilogy of movies. Just consider the ending of the movie. He reconciles the fact that while he is the father...he can't be the father. Lois is with someone who can be there for her. And then he flies off to be Superman. That would have been a perfect ending point for this "new" series of movies.

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I kind of agree. I said something along these lines in the sequel thread. For me, SR feels like a great ending to the "Donner Trilogy" that never was.

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Just 10 more days until the HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, and SD-DVD arrive!

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Yeah, I can't wait! Although I'm not sure of what I'm more excited about, SR in high def or the Donner cut of SII.

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I really wish this stuff was coming out next week instead of the following.
This way we'd have the long weekend to enjoy these discs.

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No kidding! Would LOVE to watch this over Thanksgiving with my family. Some of them never saw it. The horror

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I'm with you Tim, I've been itching to see this again for a couple months now. I can't wait to grab that new set.

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Yeah, the 21st would have definitely been a better day to release these than the 28th.

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I agree with all of you on the release date. I'm surprised they wouldn't want it out in stores, especially knowing that the day after Thanksgiving is one of the biggest shopping days of the year.

Oh well, I must be patient

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2007 is really becoming a rewarding movie watching year already.

Seen some really good films the past few days and late yesterday we decided on Superman Returns. Harry Potter & The Prisoner of Azkaban on Sunday, Superman Returns on Monday.

This time was with about 7 of us and there were 3 among us that had never seen it before.

I won't go into another SR love fest again. I'll save you that. but I will do a bit of it.

There are certainly more harder films that are intense and well made in 2006 like The Departed, United 93, Children of Men, and Flags Of Our Fathers. These are all terrific films that will no doubt garner some award nominations. But my favorite film remains Superman Returns. Alot of reasons for that but the biggest might just be due to it being the best movie going experience I had last year. Just a blast and pure cinematic enjoyment seeing this in a crowded IMAX screen. Loved every minute of it.

In fact, it was the awesome Plane Rescue sequence that propelled me to start the The Movies Greatest Action Sequences thread.

We watched the HD-DVD version and the audio in Dolby True HD is quite stunning. It will give you that silly grin...those of you who've heard it know what I am talking about.

One of my favorite all time Cool Cinematic Moments is right here. (taken from the standard def dvd). Enjoy





























Can't wait for the next one.

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It pains me that such a great film is only 3rd on my top ten list, but the other two just barely edged it out...

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Just shows you how good those first 2 are! . I haven't seen The Fountain yet which I think is your #1...so it's possible I could edit that spot.

I remembered another great moment that I thought was quick but great nonetheless:

Lois Lane to Clark...
"Richard is a Pilot and loves Horror movies..."

Clark responds...


Love that reaction.

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I was hugely disappointed with this when I saw it in the theatres. I mention it somewhere in this thread but anyways I rented it on Blu-ray over the weekend and gave it another shot.

It actually grew on me and felt like a better film the second time around. Still has its problems, mostly with plot and pacing and motives but it didn't bother me near as much.

The plane sequence does bring a smile to my face everytime I see it. I just wish there were more sequences like that in the film.

Tim, cool pics, but they look odd for some reason. The first looks like an oil painting from some fan.

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I'm kind of new to this screen grab thing....and I also have ancient Power DVD software. Plus some of those were during heavy action moments and they are kind of hard to just freeze & snap. Other than that I have no idea. ...And how would you look if you were trying to catch a plane on fire in mid air

Glad it worked better for you on another viewing and on Blu Ray Jason.

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Haha Tim, I love that reaction by Clark too. Really understated moment that went a long way in endearing me to Routh's portrayal of Kent. For what it's worth, this was my favorite film last year, too. I still haven't seen The Departed or The Fountain, both of which could challenge. But I doubt it.

By the way, Tim, did you find the TrueHD track to be abnormally quiet at times? I mean, big action sequences rocked for sure, but during some of the more dialogue driven scenes, I had to turn it up a lot more than for a SD DVD. Same thing with the Lady in the Water TrueHD track. Didn't have the same problem with Miami Vice or Batman Begins, though.

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I did Brett. Had to be careful though. The other night we turned up the volume a bit and even increased the center channel to +2 (normally at 0)....but at big scenes, it was almost too loud if that's possible. There was no distortion though. I think that is one of the benefits of Dolby TrueHD is the very wide dynamic range.

But...as you point out, Batman Begins is a bit more leveled out than SR. On the first titles from Warner (Phantom, Samurai etc....) I have to turn up the volume WAY higher than norm.

Glad you liked the screenshots Brett. I knew you had it #1 as well. Not sure if it's the "best" film of 2006 but far & away my favorite.

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The score is terrific in that plane rescue scene.

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Nice Top 10 list, Tim. I only mention it because there aren't too many people who share my tastes. Superman (at #1), Rocky, United 93, Flags, Departed, and Children of Men are all on my list, along with M:i:III and, from your "still need to see" list, Pan's Labyrinth and The Fountain. I thought Babel was overrated *before* it won the Golden Globe, so my advice is to lower your expectations accordingly. You can also look forward to Letters From Iwo Jima, which was a nice companion to Flags of Our Fathers.

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Thanks Adam. Pretty cool in how are top lists are so similar. And thanks for the Babel advice too.

I actually just returned from a matinee of Children of Men and man I was captivated even more the 2nd time. Think I need to alter my lists order a bit Want to avoid a knee jerk response but may have consider a tie for #1.

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So, I should get this movie on HDDVD?

Seriously, I have a XBox HDDVD drive so I'll see the picture quality, just not the sound quality.

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ABSOLUTELY! No question Dome. Run now to get it. I don't think you can get the Dolby TrueHD track yet with the XBOX add-on but you'll get a higher bit rate audio track that will dowmix....and of course the image will be improved as well.

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All this HDDVD talk and those screenshots are making me depressed about my only DVD copy.

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Hang in there David, Warner Bros is going to be releasing a disc with both formats soon...most likely this summer, called Total HD. You can read about it here:

Total HD

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Sorry to resurrect this thread. But, my son loves watching the shuttle/plane scene. And it occured to me. That scene were Supes rescues the plane would have been an awesome way to introduce Superman if this was an origin movie. And yes, I know in the retconned Superman origin in the comics. Supes saves Lois from a crashing shuttle. But, watch the scene again and try to think of it as if this was the first time everyone from the pilot of the fighter plane, Lois, all the way to the baseball stadium crowd sees Supes. It would have been awesome.

And on a nitpick to the movie. For a non-origin movie. Its terrible that we don't see Superman until 35 minutes into the movie.