Lost season 3 discussion.... - Page 4

Re: Lost season 3 discussion....

I kept asking why didn't Jack ask Juliet who they were, why they were doing what they were doing. Obviously Ben wanted to break them for some reason.

It was quite gratifying to see Jack grab Juliet and make the escape attempt.

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fantastic episode!! I want more! the 13 week hiatus this christmas will be killer, I can tell already.

Jeremy, trust me in that you don't want any of us explaining Dharma and the 'Zoo'

1. We wouldn't do it even close to justice
2. You're best off to get the season sets and watch them. Tivo season 3 and don't watch or read these threads until you're caught up.
3. The entire set from this episode is brand new, so your guess is as good as mine re: the zoo.

When you're ready, come back and we'll more than help clear up anything you still have gaps with - at least, if we can...

Have fun with it - you're in for a great ride!

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Ok, I'm not getting the whole Stephen King deal. Maybe I missed a post, but why are you all thinking that it was a Stephen King book they were reading?? My first thought was that it was "Bad Twin" but of couse, that wouldn't really fit into the time line.

As for the name game...Christian told Ana to call him "Tom" which we now know is the name of Mr. Smiley/Zeke. He wanted to call her "Sarah" which was Jack's wife's name. Hurley's imaginary friend is Dave; Libby's dead husband is David. Of course, I have no idea what this all means, I'm just saying it.

Wild show though...my assumption up to now had been that the others expected the plane to crash and had some foreknowledge of what was to come. This episode seems to confirm they did not.

As for "Speaking in Tongues"...yah it was definitely that CD case, but that's a rather minor point really. If this is what you want to quibble about, maybe watch a different show. I doubt there is any significance to that.

The first 5 minutes rocked more than the rest of the episode so far, but I'm intrigued by the fact that they seem to be alluding to the animal research on the island.

I didn't, but please tell me more!

I'm starting to think the whole "Christian Shepherd" thing is a big fat red herring. This guy is just a total tool. Has he been shown to ever have done anything of usefullness or significance so far? No, he just keeps on being a jackass.

It was kinda cool to see "Henry", Goodwin and Ethan all together at the same time.

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King's name could clearly be seen on several of the books they were holding. The guy who complained about the selection (or somebody in the room--I think it was him) was holding a 1st edition Carrie. And, when Henry/Ben talked with Juliet outside, she was holding a King paperback.

The implication of that scene seemed to be that the other Others are terrified of Henry/Ben. "You picked a book that Ben wouldn't even read in the bathroom?!" His, "I guess I'm out of your book club" was a little sinister, and it may have been why she drew aquarium duty and he was unconcerned about her possible death. That would make him a little unhinged, but that's probably the point.

Really enjoyed Sawyer working out the bear cage. It reminded me of a cross between an online logic game and the scene in the Infocom version of Hitchhiker's Guide where the player had to figure out how to get a babel fish.

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Flashing back to the beginning with the "Downtown" song, it showed a close up of Juliet's face as the song started. She seemed to almost break down before she caught herself and started rearranging the house. What was she broken up about??

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Somebody had recorded Petula Clark over her Talking Heads recording. I'd cry too.

Brad

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Yeah, for a second at the beginning when she was crying, I thought that was still Penny from the finale of Season 2, before I realized it was a different person.

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Alright, so the others live in houses in some sort of small community on the island. The showed what happened as the plane crashed. The fake henry gale is actually named Ben and is the leader of the others. Jack is locked up under in the "hydra" dharma hatch which was for sharks and dolphins. We meet Juliette. She offers to bring Jack food and when she does he attacks her. Ben shows up when Jack tells her to open a door. Ben says is she opens it they all die. Jack throws her down and opens it himself. Ben runs and closes a door as Juliette can get to it. The door opens and water floods the facility. Juliette and Jack close themselves in a room and Juliette tells Jack to press a button to drain the water. As he does she knocks him out with a punch.....Sawyer woke up in a cage that was used for bears. Across from him was someone else that was on the plane. That other guy picked the lock then got sawyer out but they were stopped Sawyer was locked up again and the other guy was taken away. Kate wakes up in a locker room and is told to shower and wear a dress so she can have breakfast with Ben. Afterwards she is put in the cage that the other guy was in....Flashbacks were about Jack and his divorce. He went nuts trying to find out who she cheated on him with. Even accused his dad of sleeping with her. His dad was going to AA meetings and was 50 days sober. Jack followed him to a meeting accused him then fought with him which landed Jack in jail. His ex wife bails him out and calls him a cab because JAcks father called her almost too drunk to understand.

Also: Did anyone else notice if the patient in jack's flashback is "Mr Friendly" aka the Other with the deep voice?

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I'm not sure that was him or not.....

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Right on Lou!

Great episode.

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Thanks Tino. No doubt the book is Carrie. The one guy said it was all religious mumbo-jumbo and that there was no metaphor.

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was he?, no way to know that

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The roots of this discord go much further back than that. As shown in a S1 flashback, since he was a kid, jack has heard from his father that he was "not strong enough", "didn't have the stomach" to do stuff and possibly not even up to being a doc. Some of it was echoed at the AA meeting scene. Chris Shepard has always been a mild asshole toward his son (probably toward everyone), and the latter, who definitely IS too sensitive (if one word can characterise Jack, it is that one) has never gotten over the need to prove himself.

I never once thought that Dad was doing the ex. No need to look for something that lurid to explain the latent animosity between these two.

We don't know, and aren't supposed to, of course, but having established her character as generally unhappy right off the bat (look how she tore into that dude at the book club), and given her frosty interraction with Henry and apparent if mild empathy with Jack, they've set her up as a possible ally. Whatever the others do, her heart doesn't seem to be in it any more.

When Henry jack was threatening to open the door, with Henry's "Open that and we all die" and Jack's hesitation, did anyone think they were gonna dangle the what's behind the door question in front of us for an entire season? .

--
H

Re: Lost season 3 discussion....

A great opener, I thought. For those wanting "more," I really can't figure out what you are looking for in a show. We have a whole 'village of the damned' sort of feeling in a whole new environment, all new sets, some new faces, no more "are the Others savages or not" and some direct torture going on. Sure, they aren't going to tell us why ALL of this is happening in the, oh, FIRST episode of the season. Maybe they will save some for the other 21 episodes.

Who is Jack's wife? The actress? She looks SOOO familiar but I can't remember what i have recently seen her in... darn this rotten memory.

I agree, the amounts of ads were annoying. There almost seemed more ad time than show time (though I know that isn't quite the case) but it REALLy disrupted the flow of the show. They would be just getting into a bit of the story and boom....more ads. I agree, I will DVR only and watch it that way. Sheesh.

A question. Was the earthquake the same sort of blast that happened at the end of last season? And is that what brought the plane down?

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I don't know if there'll be any significance to them reading a Stephen King book. I know King's been a long time fan of the show, so it just may be a little nod to him?

~Jason

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Jack's wife is played by Julie Bowen, currently on "Boston Legal", but was on "Ed" for its run, and her best known film role is probably "Happy Gilmore" as the object of the lead character's affections.

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I thought the premiere was dull after a promising opening. Enough with Jack already. That would be 6 in the show. The flashbacks pretty much told us everything that we didn't know already.

I was counting the number of commercial breaks, and lost track, because it was too damn many. (I forgot how to do an angry icon)

Juliet will be enough reason for me to watch. I loved when she punched Jack.


Julie Bowen, who plays Denise Bauer on Boston Legal.

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I liked the premiere, and thought it did what it should have --set up a new season with a new direction and new focus. The first five minutes of the show were great, and I can't wait til Sayid wanders into that little suburb and does some digging.

Way too many ads. My wife commented to me during the show that "I wish we could just watch this on DVD!" Shame on ABC for being so blatant about exploiting their audience's loyalty.

Would have liked to have seen Kate's meal with Ben/Henry and have her be civil and ask "So what's the deal around here?" Jack was too riled up and crazed to ask reasonable questions, and Sawyer had his own mysteries to solve.

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Horrible season premiere. I just can't get past the fact that all three main players (Jack, Sawyer and Kate) all behaved completely out of character.

Example- Kate takes a shower:
Under the circumstances, would YOU take a shower? Strip naked in a strange place where you have the sneaking suspicion that someone is watching? If you did, would you leave your clothes out of your sight?

Kate submits:
Put the handcuffs on? My first thought at seeing the cuffs on the table was, "How far will Kate throw them into the ocean?"
"What if I don't?"- "No coffee for you." click, click. SO not Kate.

Sawyer Monkeys around:
Sawyer's first thought at waking up in a cage is to figure out an obviously manipulative reasoning puzzle? My personal impression of Sawyer is that he's not one to do what is expected of him. Yes, he may be hungry, but I don't see him submitting himself to such manipulation for a *possible* reward of food and water. SO not Sawyer.

Run that way!:
A young man he has no knowledge of frees him from his cage and then proceeds to tell Sawyer which way to run. In the dialog in my head, Sawyer replies,"To hell with you, skippy- I'm outta here!" Instead, he hems this way and haws that way as the kid reiterates which way Sawyer should run, and damned if he doesn't obey, like a good caged rat. Again- Sawyer doesn't take orders.

Quit yankin' my chain and trust me:
Jack initially reacts as I've come to expect him to. He immediately begins to take inventory of his surroundings and begins to look for a way out. A woman comes in and tells him to quit misbehaving. In Jack fashion he ignores her and continues testing the chains with reckless abandon. Good for Jack. Woman returns with food and water. Assures Jack he needs it. Jack dismisses her accordingly. But wait! A tender moment! she touches her hand to the glass and assures Jack that he can trust her! Jack folds and rushes to the glass like a puppy only to be promptly dissed at his query to "what is going on here?". He did, however partially redeem himself via his attempt to escape.

I only hope the show can redeem itself with a great episode next week. Truly a weak start in my opinion.

And thats my 8 and a half cents...

Jimmy

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Couple things:

- Ben (formerly Henry) says to Kate that she/they are in for a rough 2 weeks. Will the three be experimented on, tortured, manipulated...?

- The first duty of any hostage/kidnappe is to find a way to escape. However, that escape would be immeasurably helped if a body is helped if it has energy...in the form of food. Sawyer does not know if the Others are going to feed him or not. Makes sense he would try to find food first and then run.

- Did Kate get tortured? She had the handcuffs on, but I didn't think they were tight enough to make the marks on her wrists. I'm not exactly all there with her taking a shower, but really what is the worst that's going to happen to her? If she was attacked in her clothes vs. out of them, would it make a difference?

- As for Jack, he is a man with a lot weighing on him. His father just died, he's still in mourning over his failed marriage, he is the defacto leader of this group of castaways, he has been double crossed, kidnapped and now caged like an animal. One person has extended their hand to him-Juliet. Does he really think he can trust her? No. But I do think he's going to get as much info from her as possible by playing nicely.

- That was one HELL of an opening. The "earthquake" they felt was the big magnet bringing down the plane.

- Okay, so the Others/original scientists used to have lots of animals. Definately explains the polar bear (s1) and the shark (s1). Perhaps it also explains the "monster". Were they working with DNA like Jurassic Park?

- The Others seem to know an AWFUL lot about Jack, and presumably about the rest of the losties. How do they know about Sarah and Christian? Is there somebody working "on the outside" to feed them information? Or is there another traitor in the group who has found out this stuff about them? If there is someone, it would suggest the plane didn't go down by accident. However, as best as we know, it was random, not planned.

- Yes, there were loads of commercials, many more than I remember from last year. However, I'll put up with them if it means watching on a weekly basis.

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Yeah, it was caused by Desmond when he didn't get back to enter the numbers in time during the flashbacks last year. Although it didn't get as bad as when we last saw Desmond and Locke 'shutting down' the hatch. The plane crash was caused by a minor version of the blast at the end of last year.

You could see the book. I don't think there's any great meaning to it, it's just a tip of the hat to Stephen King writing about Lost in Entertainment Weekly.

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Did anyone else notice the opening credits cropped severely on the sides of the screen? I know that the 4:3 standard-definition broadcasts are cropped from the 16:9 high-definition originals, but vital information like on-screen text has never been obscured.

I'm wondering if it was some kind of local screw-up, because it was very noticeable. I can't imagine anyone having seen it and not noticing, yet no one in this thread has mentioned it. Surely I'm not the only one watching it in standard-definition?

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I dunno... Kate is an expert manipulator, not a feisty rebel. She was clearly powerless, and is gonna bite her time and make the best of it.

I disagree. Sawyer has been shown to be a pragmatic, solely driven by his (mostly basic) needs. It is Jack, who as a man driven by principles, would have refused to indulge in that exercise had he been in the cage.

True. From the moment he stepped out of that cage, Sawyer would have been his own man. But really, what chance did he have to think?

He merely asked question...

Where is Mary?

--
H

Re: Lost season 3 discussion....

Great first episode, seemed a bit of a different style than last season, I liked it.

Some responses:
"Kate taking a Shower" - What else is she supposed to do? She knows she can't fight Zeke (whatever his name is) they've met in the past. She can't run out as he's most likely got the place covered. Even if she found something in a "locker room" that she could fight her way out with, one of Zeke's guys would've gotten her. What do you expect her to do? Same deal with the breakfast with Ben/Henry, she can run, but she's not going to make it far, she can't fight him because again Zeke and his boys are watching. Her only option is to just do what they say and she's probably hoping that things will go smoothly if she does.

"Sawyer Monkey's Around" - Sawyer isn't dumb, but he's probably hungry and he knows he's got no major option to get out of the cage, the kid wasn't talking so what do you do? He's not generally one to just sit around and do nothing unless he's trying to piss someone off. I thought it was cool to see Sawyer trying to solve his own little puzzle. As for the escaping bit, I'm sure he knew he'd probably get caught, and it's generally a good rule to split up if you're breaking out of someplace. It was a little odd to me, but my thought is he just didn't have much of an option. He certainly wasn't going to try to stay where he was.

"Quit yankin' my chain and trust me" - I like Jack and I like his background story. As to why there has been 6 Jack oriented episodes, he's one of the main 3, he's one of the "stars". Crappy reason but it's probably the truth. On the other side though, the powers that be are trying to show why Jack is a reluctant leader, why he can cave under pressure and then when he realizes it comes out with his guns drawn (sometimes literally). For all the stubbornness that Jack has he tends to trust people pretty quick, Locke, Kate, Charlie, and so forth, he knows he's been burned in the past but its the way he is. I thought the Jack stuff was easily the most interesting of the evening, but all the stories just continued the development of each character involved.

With all that being said, my thoughts on the episode.

Seeing the opening, my mouth literally dropped open for a good 30 seconds or so, a retirement community.
As for why Stephen King? Damon Lindeloff has stated many, many times in the past that he's a huge King fan and King is a fan of the show. I don't know if there's any more to it than that. And isn't King writing an episode this season?

I assumption about Juliet being sad and playing the song she did was probably due to some issue with Ben/Henry. I have a feeling they had/have some sort of relationship beyond Arch-Villian and Henchwoman. They might've had a fight, broken up, or something.

Kate looked damn good in that dress.

Sawyers stuff was a little boring, but it was nice to see him doing something other than just trying to piss people off.

I didn't for once believe that Jack's dad had slept with Sarah, Christian may be a drunk and a poor father but he's not that bad. I think he was calling Sarah to help her out dealing with Jack, she may have been his Sponser for AA too. For all that trust Jack puts into people he also has trust issues and even he knows he can't make up his mind. I think he was more frustrated at himself than his father when he tackled his dad. (which was funny to see.)

The scenery looks so amazing in HD.

The big thick folder on Jack, I wonder if they have folders on all of the plane passengers?

Kate looked really good in that dress, did I mention that?

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Really surprised how many people disliked the episode. I thought it was a great start to a new season. I agree that the commercials seem even worse than last year though. I think possibly they have more frequent shorter commercial breaks now? That really sucks if true.

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All good observations- Still left me dissapointed. Just not what I've come to expect from the leads...

Jimmy

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I enjoyed the episode but concur that there were too many commercials.

Anybody besides me think that Jack's wife Sarah is somewhat of a bitch? Ok the guy saves your life, nurses you back to life and then not only does she cheat on him, but even after this she's saying how he's essentially not good enough rather than just saying she's changed or something nice. Pretty much every scene they are in together she makes harsh comments towards him even though like a little puppy dog he keeps trying to go back to her.

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So this woman at the first isn't Penny, Desmond's girl? She is just a new character? I've been thinking since I watched it that she was Penny.

I thought the first five minutes were great and the rest was OK. I'm getting sick of Jack's personality. I think he's too on the edge about EVERYTHING, especially when they flash back to his past.

And Kate WAS looking hotter than ever!! I can't wait to see what Henry meant by "the next two weeks are going to be rough!"

I also think it was totally out of character for her to submit so willingly to him.

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I guess w/ this i just assumed was from the drugs they had been injected with.

I'm wondering if that tank near Sawyer's cage has anything to do w/ the 'monster/security system'? Maybe this 'monster' is is how the Hydra Station gets it's name? The producers have said the smoke monster we've seen so far would be considered only part of it...basically like its 'big toe'. Just a random thought.

I really enjoyed the episode. It's been getting a lot of flak around most other message boards though. Most people still seem to want every possible answer right now which is pretty ludicrous. We'd have no show then...

~Jason

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So what? She is not beholden to him forever. His job and their marriage are two separate things, although one did bring the other.

By some standards, he cheated on her as well, before everything came out in the open. But yes, she certainly went further, and was emotionally divorced long before he was.

How often do you think she's given the "it's too you, it's me" line until that night? Do you think it's an explanation Jack would have settled for, especially given his behaviour in that episode?

And BTW, she said nothing about being good enough. She said the new guy was not Jack. BIG, big difference. Of course I am sure that it's all the same to Jack. But really, that perspective is what makes the difference between a self-esteem wrecking break-up, vs one where both parties understand that they are not for each other and move on with their lives.

I don't know why guys think that acting like a puppy dog is attractive to anyone. He near neurotic actions are just confirmation that she was right to ditch him. At that point of the game, he was more a liability than anything else. She is trying to move on with her man, and now has to worry about whatever trouble his brash and emotional self will get him into next. Take that a bit further and it becomes a form of emotional blackmailing.

--
H