Leave it to beaver season 3? - Page 13

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

Brandy: I'm sure everyone in this thread appreciates your enthusiasm and shares your belief that the rest of the seasons of LITB should be released.

Here are the facts:

--Universal does have complete control. They own the property.

--Companies like Universal are in business to make money.

--If Universal believes releasing LITB seasons will make the company money, it will.

Your assertion that LITB is a good seller is likely the issue here. Your assertion that it is a "good seller" because of Amazon rankings or because "you know of several people" that have purchased the first two seasons doesn't really prove the point.

Also, all episodes of LITB are available for broadcast in syndication and have been for years. I've seen them and even one-time taped them all (on Beta videotape!). What TV Land does (I would think) has very little to do with the status of future sets on DVD...although, I suppose, good ratings could encourage Universal to release further DVDs and increased showings could bolster support and awareness of the quality program.

You are dead on, however, in your conclusion that the current status of this series in the Universal vaults is, indeed, sad.

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

Mike and I are buddies, so I don't think he'll take offense at my next statement:

I know there are folks that come to the boards and spout off, usually out of frustration, and act like the companies owe us something and should release series simply because we want them to. And I believe all of us know, deep down, that's not going to happen. Having said all that - I'm so tired of having to get the "studios are in it for the money" spiel over and over and over. It's just exasperating to me at this point. Again, no offense to Mike, because he's not the first and he surely will not be the last to remind us of this all too true fact. But sometimes I feel like I'm on some corporate board filled with nothing but studio execs when I keep reading the "remember that they're in it for the money" thing - as true as that is.

On top of that, I do believe (and have facts to back me up) that every so often the studio execs can get it wrong. The classic example is the Fox Chat from a couple of years ago when Mr. Staddon responded to an inquiry about the release of CHARLIE CHAN dvds. He emphatically said, and I quote, "we'd lose our shirts" trying to release those. Well guess what. He was dead wrong, because the 3 Fox CC sets that have been released thus far are doing great business for them! So every once in a while a studio exec can be wrong about what will and will not make money for them.

In the case of LITB, I'm convinced that Universal screwed up by placing such a high price tag on those first two season sets. They were bare-bones to begin with (unless you count the 1st Season Lunchbox thingy). Starting them at $49.98 SRP was a good $10 too high. They looked nice, but it's hard for me to believe they spent a ton of money on any kind of restoration work. Some maybe, but not all that much. Just seems like they priced themselves out of the market with those two sets.

Anyhow, I'm just saying that I don't believe Universal knows how to market their older stuff all that well. I'll just about guarantee you that if Paramount owned this property we'd have all 6 seasons by now, or at least be well on our way to getting there.

Gary "sorry for any perceived rant - I'm just not too happy with Universal right now and don't feel like we should be giving them a pass/excuse for their neglect of this series" O.

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

But that's the answer to the question that was asked. It's not pretty (and I dislike it as much as anyone else) but it's the reality of it all.

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

I know. It's just frustrating to read the same refrain over and over and over, as if we don't all know that's the case. Again, many people are posting just as a therapeutic way to relieve the stress and irritation of seeing great series like LITB abandoned. And I really do have a hard time believing this series would have failed in the hands of other studios.

Gary "perhaps it's just the seemingly cold way so many of these 'money' replies come off that bothers me - even though I don't think the posters mean them to appear as cold/uncaring" O.

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

I don't care what anyone says, I still feel (deep down in my gizzard) that we will eventually see all six years of LITB released on DVD.

If for no other reason, eventually Universal is going to start running out of stuff to release to the DVD-buying masses. Perhaps when things reach the "Well, fellow execs at Universal, what are we gonna release next?" stage, we'll see the remaining Beavers.

Fox halted the MTM season sets for nearly three years before releasing 3 more seasons (and now it's stalled again after more than a year, but it does show that a lengthy hiatus doesn't always necessarily indicate the series is dead in the H2O).

I always had faith in the eventual release of MTM-2....and I was correct. I have the same faith in LITB-3.

If I'm wrong, may Edward W. Haskell (aka Edward Clark Haskell) place a Voodoo Curse on my soul.

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

Good point, David. I was thinking about MTM while reading Gary's earlier post (re: the high list price of LITB season 1.) There is no doubt in my mind that the (initial) steep msrp for MTM season 1 hurt sales. I am a huge TV on DVD fan with over 150 season sets in my library, but I never took the MTM plunge until I picked up season 1 for less than $20. (I guess I had seen them all so MANY times over the years that there was less urgency on my end to buy in.) The upside to the lower list price for Fox though, is that I purchased the next three volumes on release day, and will happily do so for any future MTM sets they release.

Perhaps Universal should take a similar approach and drop the selling price to $19.99 each and re-release the first two seasons of LITB. Get it out there for a few months and then take another look at sale figures. This may be a case where there IS enough of a market to warrant the release of future season sets, just NOT at the current list price.

Surely, Universal can sell these sets for less and still make money. Heck, if they do it right, they stand to make MUCH more money off this series than they currently do.

Clearly, the present strategy of "margin" over "volume" does not appear to be working for them...

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

I think in the long run -- sometime within the next twenty years, I think -- everything will be available, one way or another (maybe as Internet downloads.)

I feel very strongly about that, and I'm looking forward to it. However, I'm at the age now where they better hurry up!

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

Joe, you and me both I doubt I'll be around when it's all available from some wireless provider or on a microchip, and I'm in the chip-making industry myself. My nephew thinks the same thing, that we'll see just about all of these shows out there eventually.

David VP, I agree about this one (LITB). I still think this will get released completely.

I know that the studio profit/affordability angle's been discussed a lot here, but here's my thought on something, admitting that I have no access to sales data as I'd guess almost all here also don't have the #'s to look at.

Take, for example, the Perry Mason 1/2-S releases. If we are to believe, or just consider Amazon's ranking #'s, this series is selling well. My question is, assuming that this is true, and I admit I don't know this for certain, then why is that release continuing with 1/2-season sets? I know the point has been made here previously that the Amazon #'s don't mean anything or shouldn't be taken into consideration. I guess IMO, if that is so, then what's the point of looking at them? Is that the only source of sales data we have unless we have inside studio contacts or subscribe to the trade publications, as 'net stores, dealers, etc do? I just have a little problem believing that studios are selling these 1/2-S sets due to low sales #'s. Perhaps they're going with the 1/2-S sets to make these TV/DVD sets more affordable to the impulse/local outlet buyers? But then, if that's true, it's been brought up here (ie Big Valley) that the 1/2-S release marketing decisions aren't making it less expensive for the consumers. Strange

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

Great question.

My speculation is that CBS is interpreting the strong sales as being a result of keeping the releases affordable by splitting the seasons. In other words, two releases at $25-$30 each will sell better than a single $50-$60 release. So why risk ruining the success of the series by changing strategies? Again, just my guess.

The market for these vintage series is a lot smaller than us fans of them would like to admit and CBS probably has to walk a fine line to make these work. They also have the benefit of market research and sales data for similar products that we consumers don't.

I do give CBS credit for not setting these releases up to fail. Had S1 of Perry Mason been released with all 39 episodes and a $70-$80 price tag, that would likely have killed the chance for S2 and beyond. It seems to be the consensus among LITB fans that high pricing and flipper discs may have hurt that show's performance at retail.

Steve

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

Gary OS; No offense taken at all. But just as people will continue to want to rant about the unfairness of the LITB hiatus (or any other topic), I think one of the strengths of this forum is member's ability to keep perspective and help each other understand what's going on in the industry. So, continued posts providing what I believe to be fairly solid answers should remain welcome.

I also think you make a mistake when you hear me or others give the "Universal is in business to make money" rationale. We don't say it as because we want to cause people to feel dispair and a lack of hope. More to the point I think we would like to compel people to respond along the lines of your example of the Charlie Chan model and try to convince the suits at Universal that they could indeed make money with the continued release of LITB. While I'm not certain (lacking sales figures) that the Chan sets are "doing great business for them"...I would have to think they have certainly been a pleasant surprise (proven by the subsequent releases of further sets)!

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

Great points by both Jeff and Steve here. I agree that the original thought from CBS/Paramount had to be the more affordable selling point. And now that they've begun doing it that way (split season sets) and have had tremendous success with it they might as well not tinker with it. That makes sense.

And the PERRY MASON sets are the standard that I use to measure every split season b&w release. It's done incredibly well by Amazon rankings. And we don't have anything else to go by as far as I know. That info seems to be kept close to the vest by the studios.

Gary "and I'm with the group that says, 'Hurry up and get these shows out' because I'm not getting any younger" O.

P.S. I posted before I saw your reply, Mike. Thanks for the response. Can't disagree with anything you wrote.

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

Well, Universal may have dropped the ball on commemorating the 50th anniversary of "Leave It To Beaver," but at least TVLand has not. Details, schedule here:

http://www.tvland.com/marathon/beaver/

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

Bob: Thanks a ton for the info! You, most certainly, do not have the face of a pig!


Friday night (10-7) @ 6:30pm. "In the Soup"

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

Until I reviewed all those episodes and read an article on the 50th anniversary in my local newspaper this morning, I wasn't really aware how stupid Universal is being by not putting out another season to coincide with this 50th anniversary moment.

Talk about your prototypical "lost opportunity."

You know what it is for me? I've got such a queue of material to watch that I figure whenever they get around to releasing it , I'll pick it up and add it to the queue. But whenever I'm reminded about the special qualities of this particular show, I get a little angry.

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

You just have to shake you head at this . . . . . if Universal can't make money on "Leave It To Beaver" by releasing it themselves, why not license it to Shout! Factory or some other worthy independent that doesn't have the corporate overhead that Universal, presumably, does. Universal has licensed "Ironside," "McHale's Navy," "Banacek" and a few others to independent DVD releasing companies, so what's stopping them from licensing the remaining seasons of "Leave It To Beaver?" I have to believe that at least a few of the independents would love to distribute "Leave It To Beaver" on DVD if given the opportunity to do so. But you're right, Mike . . . . . Universal has really missed a golden opportunity to reap the benefits of the hoopla surrounding the 50th anniversary of the series. It will be interesting to see if they even do anything to promote seasons 1 & 2 during the marathon . . . . I'm guessing that they won't.

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

Yeah. I've been quick to play devil's advocate about how "it's a business and I understand their decision"...yada yada yada. But I would figure there is some money to be made with this property, too...if done right.

And, as a fan, seeing all this publicity now surrounding the anniversary makes me realize that someone at Universal is wearing the mantle of "bonehead." Or, to use the Beaver vernacular: "creep."

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

Welcome to the dark side, my friend.

My displeasure with Universal on this matter is well known, so there's no need rehashing it all. Instead I'll simply "amen" you and Bob. There's no doubt Uni could have made some money by tying a dvd release into the 50th Anniversary. Shame on them - the goons!

Gary "they really should farm this series out if they have no plans to continue" O.

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

I might also be reacting to the news from TVShowsonDVD.com that Season 5 of The Simple Life is now scheduled for release...

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

More discouraging news about the prospects of a Season 3, 4, 5, or 6 can be found over at the Shout! Factory Forum.

Brian Ward knows his stuff, and he paints a pretty grim but realistic picture. Boy I wish his company, or someone, would pick up this show. It certainly deserves better treatment than what Universal is giving it.

Gary "what a shame!" O.

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

Gary: Who is Brian Ward? Connected to Shout Factory?

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

Yes, Brian works for Shout! Factory. He answers questions on the Shout! board and works on dvds that they put out. He definitely knows what the deal is, otherwise he wouldn't say it.

Gary "it really is a shame that we probably will not see any more LITB sets - unless Universal farms it out" O.

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

Well, I think it's cool the company has a forum on which customers/consumers can lobby for product or critique their products.

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

And with a last name like "Ward," you just know that he's not "giving you the business."

Seriously, from his posts at S!F's boards, Brian appears to be a straight shooter. I certainly appreciate the fact that someone from S!F takes the time to actually listen to and respond to inquiries, comments, and suggestions. Try contacting any of the major studios and see how far you'll get.

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

I just don't understand why the big studios like Universal, won't simply create their own speciality line & sell these kind of titles on their own web site. They don't have to try mass distribution (Target, Best Buy, etc) for every single title they own.

I mean, if I had as much content as they did, I'd simply create a Rhino/Shout-type imprint line and release bare-bones box sets.

And then market my link on web sites like HTF and such where people that want this stuff regularly hang out, wishing they could get it.

People would keep coming back to buy stuff their they couldn't get anywhere else.

No brainer.

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

I've been saying the same thing for a couple of years now. In point of fact, Universal already has its own direct imprint line, Hip-O and Hip-O Select. It baffles the mind to think that Universal can see its way clear to release something like this on Hip-O Select, but question the viability of any future LITB sets. Nothing against Rupert Holmes, but I mean... really... come on! How long do you think it would take Universal to sell 3,000 LITB sets compared to this Holmes collection??

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

No, man. Everything against him for "The Piña Colada Song. An eternal Top Ten Tune on Hell's Jukebox.

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

50th anniversary opportunity squandered.

Universal allows some pretty stupid people to make decisions there.

Thaellar

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

If their analysis of the market and the profit/loss statements on the first two seasons resulted in the conviction that Season 3 would lose money for them, it's hardly a stupid decision. It's actually a rational decision.

The problem isn't with Universal -- it's with people today who don't appreciate the quality of a show like this. For most people, saying something is now 50 years old makes them want to stay far away from it -- especially younger people.

When I was 20, something which was 50 years old came from 1920. All I could think of 1920 at that time was, "Very ancient history. Not interested." That's what a 20-year-old thinks of 1957 today. Beaver and Wally are as quaint to them as Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn.

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

Hi Joe,

While I do agree with your comments regarding folks in their 20's, I must also echo some points made by others in this thread.

As others have pointed out, the first 2 seasons were very overpriced. There were very few extras and the restoration didn't look to be overly-expensive to carry out. Seems to me the profit/loss statements for this release are a reflection of a marketing blunder, not a reflection of interest in the show. They could have released all the seasons by now at reasonable price-points and saved the "lunchbox" idea (or something similar) for the complete series release to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the show...and coinciding nicely with the holiday shopping season.

The whole thing reeks of an incompetent marketing/sales team being assigned the LITB release project.

Thaellar

Re: Leave it to beaver season 3?

This past weekend, I was able to watch four episodes of the "Leave It To Beaver" marathon on TVLand at a relatives' home. I was very surprised to see a commercial for the first two seasons of the show on DVD; I never expected that Universal would promote a show that they seemingly have abandoned. I suppose there are several ways that one could interpret Uni's running the ad. Possibly they are simply trying to clear out some excess inventory and used the TVLand Marathon as an opportune time to do. The optimist in me says that maybe LITB hasn't completely fallen off Uni's radar screen and that if sales of the sets spike a bit as a result of the marathon, maybe, just maybe we'll see further season sets. I'm not holding my breath on this, but the fact that Uni advertised the first two seasons on DVD during the LITB TVLand marathon suggests that they haven't completely 100% abandoned the series just yet.