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Dolby Digital Plus question

post #1 of 33
6/13/06 at 2:15pm
Thread Starter 
Here is a simple question for the HD folks out there:
Does my receiver have to HDMI inputs in order to get the DD+ or can this also come through with Optical Digital cable (from player to receiver) ?
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post #2 of 33
6/13/06 at 4:11pm

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

On the HD-A1, you have to have either HDMI, or 5.1 analog outputs to get DD+. Optical and Coax give you encoded DTS.
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post #3 of 33
6/14/06 at 1:05am

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

You can get this sound via Analog inputs on your AV/R or HDMI. As Mark says, you can also get them via optical and coax, but these two connectors cannot transport the higher bandwidth that DD+ offers, so for optical and coax, the players convert the decoded DD+ audio into a 1.5 megabit DTS stream.
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post #4 of 33
6/14/06 at 6:51am
Thread Starter 

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Thank you both for the reply. So am I to assume you both prefer DD+ over the DTS encoding?
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post #5 of 33
6/14/06 at 2:47pm

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Then there is DD True HD and I have only seen 1 or maybe two HD-DVD's with that audio encoded, Pahntom Of The Opera being one of them.
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post #6 of 33
6/15/06 at 4:08pm

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidDTS
Thank you both for the reply. So am I to assume you both prefer DD+ over the DTS encoding?
Getting the decoded DD+ as PCM is the ideal, as it will not be altered by recoding to DTS. So if you have an AVR with HDMI inputs, then this is the best solution. Any version of HDMI will do, you don't need HDMI 1.3 to pass this decoded DD+ PCM 5.1 (or even 7.1) audio.

But if you have to use optical, the DD+ recoded to 1.5 megabit DTS is still better than a regular DD soundtrack, so it's not a big problem. It's good to have the legacy support.
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post #7 of 33
6/16/06 at 10:46am

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Well, Perfect Storm says it has a Dolby HD 5.1 track.

Does the Toshiba player decode the signal?
So, if I have analog inputs, am I getting the true signal?
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post #8 of 33
6/16/06 at 10:59am

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Only the left and right stereo channels of the Dolby TrueHD track can be decoded by the Toshiba.

Dumb!!

The Blu-Ray titles are the same resolution as the HD-DVD titles: 16 bit/48 kHz (basically downconverted CD quality, not high resolution from the archival masters) and are placed as uncompressed Linear PCM 5.1 tracks so far... so in layman's terms the same quality as the current Dolby TrueHD 5.1 lossless compressed tracks on HD-DVD.

Dan
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post #9 of 33
6/16/06 at 12:02pm

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Quote:
Only the left and right stereo channels of the Dolby TrueHD track can be decoded by the Toshiba.

Dumb!!

I agree. This is one of the strangest things about the Toshiba. I can't understand why it was done. Why not 5.1 channel analog? Anyone know?

-Reagan
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post #10 of 33
6/16/06 at 1:15pm

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

I would guess the PC they have inside the Toshiba can't handle it. They probably would have had to put in a dedicated sound/codec card.
It still doesn't make sense. I guess it is like the first generation of SD DVD players that couldn't play DTS.
Remember that?
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post #11 of 33
6/16/06 at 1:23pm

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Quote:
Remember that?
Yes, but there was a different reason for that: DTS came too late with the official proposal and wasn't included in the first operative specs of the format. After a year, or so, it was agreed upon.


Cees
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post #12 of 33
6/16/06 at 4:19pm

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman
The Blu-Ray titles are the same resolution as the HD-DVD titles: 16 bit/48 kHz (basically downconverted CD quality, not high resolution from the archival masters) and are placed as uncompressed Linear PCM 5.1 tracks so far... so in layman's terms the same quality as the current Dolby TrueHD 5.1 lossless compressed tracks on HD-DVD.

Dan

Aren't most movie masters at 16/48?
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post #13 of 33
6/16/06 at 4:32pm

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Why is Toshiba advertising in their current HD-DVDs for 7.1 lossless sound if it's not available? Will a firmware upgrade do the trick?
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post #14 of 33
6/16/06 at 4:42pm

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Schiller
I would guess the PC they have inside the Toshiba can't handle it. They probably would have had to put in a dedicated sound/codec card.
It still doesn't make sense. I guess it is like the first generation of SD DVD players that couldn't play DTS.
Remember that?
Uhhhh.... The HD DVD players DO IN FACT use hardware decoders for this, not the Intel CPU. There are four Analog Devices SHARC chips which handle this and two of them are flash-upgradable.

Word going around is that within 3 weeks there will be a firmware update which MAY support 5.1 TruHD decoding...
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post #15 of 33
6/16/06 at 4:43pm

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Anthony
Why is Toshiba advertising in their current HD-DVDs for 7.1 lossless sound if it's not available? Will a firmware upgrade do the trick?
It can handle L-PCM lossless audio as well...
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post #16 of 33
6/16/06 at 4:55pm

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reagan
I agree. This is one of the strangest things about the Toshiba. I can't understand why it was done. Why not 5.1 channel analog? Anyone know?

-Reagan
My guess is the code for the decoder chips wasn't ready in time.

There is a firmware update coming in the next three weeks which MAY add 5.1 TRU HD decoding...
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post #17 of 33
6/16/06 at 6:49pm

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_HD
My guess is the code for the decoder chips wasn't ready in time.

There is a firmware update coming in the next three weeks which MAY add 5.1 TRU HD decoding...
Not a challenge Rob, but your source for this would be? …
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post #18 of 33
6/16/06 at 8:18pm

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

From what I've read from a sound mixer at Todd-AO most newer soundtracks are mixed at 24 bit/48 kHz and Warner Brothers is adding support for 24/96 soon.

From comments by Stacy Spears on AVS Forum it looks like they're downgrading to 16/48 in order to squeeze the bitrates. A 24/48 or 24/96 lossless compressed track can still require peaks of 6-8 Megabits/sec. This is based off of DVD-Audio lossless tracks, which use Meridian Lossless Packing (MLP). MLP is the backbone of Dolby TrueHD lossless with more channels and higher resolution than DVD-Audio music discs as a possibility.

Dan
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post #19 of 33
6/17/06 at 7:33am

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew Crippen
Not a challenge Rob, but your source for this would be? …
No probs - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7811638

To get the context, one should read through the build up to the post also.
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post #20 of 33
6/17/06 at 8:07am

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

So, I would need one of these cables to hook up to my HD DVD player and my Denon reciever, to get DD+

Cable
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post #21 of 33
6/17/06 at 9:30am

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Thanks for the link Rob. I read back from the post a few pages and I could not determine where anyone mentioned that the next firmware release would have support for 5.1 Tue HD decoding.

To be accurate, I did not read the whole thread, so the reference may well be present, or it could be that some of the veiled comments referred to that support, but as I did not have my Captain Midnight Secret Decoder Ring, I was unable to determine that it was Tru HD that was being referenced.
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post #22 of 33
6/17/06 at 9:41am

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

JohnS, your "Cable" link doesn't seem to work. Anyway, you need analog or HDMI cables to get the Dolby Digital Plus sound. The analog cables connect to the external input (EXT. IN) of your Denon receiver (it's where the Super Audio CD usually connects for the multi-channel sound format), if you have a HDMI input, then a HDMI cable is the best way to go! Also, make sure your receiver is switched to "DVD EXT. IN" while playing HD-DVDs.
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post #23 of 33
6/17/06 at 9:48am

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

DD+ through HDMI is a non starter right now. There are no receivers or pre-amps with the new audio formats on board as there are no HDMI 1.3 chips to put in said equipment. Perhaps not until late this year.

You'll just have to use 6 analog audio cables to your Denon's external analog inputs.

DD+ or DTS-HD is converted to 1.5 Megabits/sec DTS if you run them through the coaxial or toslink optical outputs.

Dan
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post #24 of 33
6/17/06 at 12:41pm

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman
DD+ through HDMI is a non starter right now. There are no receivers or pre-amps with the new audio formats on board as there are no HDMI 1.3 chips to put in said equipment. Perhaps not until late this year.

You'll just have to use 6 analog audio cables to your Denon's external analog inputs.

DD+ or DTS-HD is converted to 1.5 Megabits/sec DTS if you run them through the coaxial or toslink optical outputs.

Dan
Hi Dan - I wouldn't want anyone to get confused, as your post left out the most obvious way.

The full multichannel DD+ audio is decoded by the HD DVD players and passed to AVRs over HDMI as multichannel PCM. This is the best method to enjoy the new codecs.

Having an AVR decode DD+ (or for that matter TruHD and DTS-HD) is a pipe dream since you would need new HDMI 1.3 Players that don't exist yet, as well as new HDMI 1.3 AVRs with decoders for these new audio formats (which don't exist yet either).

But you can get the full benefit of DD+ 5.1 right now today with almost any HDMI AVR (regardless of HDMI version) and an HD DVD player.
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post #25 of 33
6/17/06 at 12:50pm

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew Crippen
Thanks for the link Rob. I read back from the post a few pages and I could not determine where anyone mentioned that the next firmware release would have support for 5.1 Tue HD decoding.

To be accurate, I did not read the whole thread, so the reference may well be present, or it could be that some of the veiled comments referred to that support, but as I did not have my Captain Midnight Secret Decoder Ring, I was unable to determine that it was Tru HD that was being referenced.
No Probs, Lew.

What was stated in the thread is mostly these points:

1) the first firmware update dealt with playback issues on some machines, as well as key video problems such as clipping BTB/WTW.

2) The next firmware update will be out in a few weeks

3) The next update will deal with other user enhancement requests

4) There was a hint in one of the posts that audio would be addressed, but nothing specific was said

There is also a lot of speculation in the thread as to what will be in the next update:

1) is it TruHD 5.1? or DTS-HD?

3) is it 1080p24

etc.

Given that TruHD decoding is part of the madatory HD DVD player specs, my money is on the folks who are saying that TruHD multichannel is in the next update. Particularly given the fact that the SHARC chips in the machine are said to be perfectly capable of managing this task.

So by taking the information which has been provided in context with what the most important user requests were, along with the HD DVD specs themselves - one is left with the conclusion that TruHD is a high priority now...

Note that in the user poll on key requests here, that TruHD/DTSHD multichannel was the THIRD most requested item to be fixed or added.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=679107
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post #26 of 33
6/17/06 at 4:58pm

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Hey, thanks guys.
I can head on over to Radio Shack, since the store next to me is closing down, and everything is 70% off. I can get my analog cables that way, untill the new Reciever comes out from Sony in Sept.
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post #27 of 33
6/18/06 at 5:15am

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Thanks for the detail Rob—much appreciated.
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post #28 of 33
6/18/06 at 10:45am

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Yes, thanks Rob_HD for the info on lossless sound. Is this a bloody great forum or what?
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post #29 of 33
6/19/06 at 7:11am

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

JohnS

Could you give me some information about the new Sony receiver coming out in September?

Thanks ,
Richard Ringenbach
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post #30 of 33
6/19/06 at 7:49pm

Re: Dolby Digital Plus question

Richard,

here you go
news- ugh! I just re-read it, not exactly what were looking for in the lines of True Dolby or Dolby+

Also, I'm connecting the analogs to my Denon, and I cant get sound out of the speakers, but just barely, what am I doing wrong?
The sound comes out fine when I'm setting the speakers up and using the test tones through the HD player.
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