Everwood - Page 4

Re: Everwood

Exactly. The Amazon sales rank is a snapshot of an item's performance in relation to similar items on Amazon.com within a given time frame. Amazon sales, of course, account for only a tiny percentage of the sales of any given DVD. And the Amazon.COM numbers don't even include the entire universe of Amazon sites like Amazon.CO.UK, Amazon.ca, Amazon.de, etc.

The value of an Amazon sales ranking in trying to estimate actual sales of a DVD, much less the profit point for a given title at a given studio, is effectively zero. But I guess it makes people feel better, and since the point of this thread seems to be to let people express (and wallow in) their feelings, I guess that's OK. Logic, reason, common sense and any attempt to explain market economics having been branded "mean spirited" and "put downs", I will say no more.

Regards,

Joe

Re: Everwood

I bought the first season of Everwood the first year it came out as a blind buy based on reviews at this Forum. I was not disappointed; it's one of my favorite family dramas. Let's keep banging the drum and maybe someday we'll see the followings seasons!

Re: Everwood

it wasn't just Amazon tho... others have reported that copies have been flying off store shelves by them as well. Amazon is a good indicator if a show is a hit or flop on DVD though, if something peaks at #3000 on their sales ranking, usually don't expect a season 2 announcement.

Re: Everwood

The plural of "anecodote" is NOT "data". I don't care if Sid's Video reported that both the copies they had "flew off the shelves". The studios base their decisions on hard numbers and their own costs data - two things that nobody in this thread has access to. Even if we had the sales information, without the cost/break-even/profit data we still wouldn't be in a position to evaluate the studio's decision. All we know for sure is that they haven't released any further seasons. Given that the studio's motive is to turn a profit, and that they do this by selling TV Shows, not by refusing to do so, the logical inference is that the show hasn't sold enough to justify a second season. And no amount of speculation about the meaning of old Amazon sales rankings (which is no more useful than reading the entrails of birds) is going to change any of that. But, again, this thread is not an exercise in reason, but an emotional wallow where people just keep repeating the mantra "but we want it" as though chanting that (or beating drums) could magically alter financial realties and retroactively change sales figures.

Regards,

Joe

Re: Everwood

Amen. Just like little children in a toy store, throwing a tantrum and screaming, "But I want it, I want it, I want it, I want it...."

Warner is well aware of the sales figures. I don't know why so many here think they have information that the studio is not privy to. There are people at Warner whose very job is tracking sales of DVD releases. If Everwood were to make sizeable sales gains, I'm sure they'd bring it to the attention of their superiors. But #9 at Amazon.com is merely a drop in the ocean of overall retail sales.

Re: Everwood

'Kay, first of all, I'm not a big fan of Everwood - although I do think it's better than other shows that were renewed instead, like One Tree Hill and 7th Heaven. But overall, I found many of the characters on Everwood irritating, and the plots predictable. I liked season one best, but after they killed off Colin, and ignored his sister Laynie, (my favorite characters/actors) I lost a lot of interest.

Alright, I'm getting off-topic. Point is, although I'm not that invested, I feel sorry for hardcore Everwood fans because I know what it's like to want your favorite show on DVD...don't we all feel that way? Aren't we all here because we're passionate about certain shows and we're hoping that posting on these forums, where the big-wigs are known to hang out, will show the studios how much interest there is? And get us what we want on DVD? So it doesn't make sense to me, that Everwood fans are being criticized for saying "I want!" Why should they give up and accept Warner's decision meekly?

I think Warner should give Everwood another chance on DVD because it's true that they didn't release season one in widescreen, which put off some people from buying it. Like me. And it's also true that there are more fans of the show now, than there were during season 1... so isn't there a good chance season 2 DVDs would sell better than season 1? Demand can increase over the years, so why base one's decisions soley on first-week (or whatever) sales of the first season?

I'm pretty much always going to take the fans' side over the studios. Too many execs screw the fans. It's like Rhino deciding not to release season 3 part 2 of Jem, and finish the series. Nevermind the obligation to consumers who have a right to expect a part 2 if they bought a part 1. Nevermind the fact that it's Rhino's fault if sales weren't "good enough"... they charged insanely high prices for Jem ($60-80 for 3 discs?!)... and do you know how many people I've met who love Jem but didn't even know it had been released on DVD? So, poor promotion/advertising combined with price-gouging killed Jem on DVD. Not lack of interest in the series. I hate that studios never take responsibility for a DVD's failure. It's always "not enough fans".... yeah, right.

For once I wish studios would examine why a DVD didn't sell as hoped, and acknowledge that maybe *they* didn't do a good enough job. But that would require putting some thought and effort into it. And we know it's all about making maximum profits with minimum effort.

(If only every studio/department had a George Feltenstein who CARED about the product and made decisions from a FAN perspective!)

Re: Everwood

Gosh and golly, ya shore are smart, professor! You really told off us brainless morons but good! Please...impart more of your ascerbic wisdom, oh sensei! You are now officially the Tom Vu of the HTF forums. "I'm Tom Vu! And you are stupid loser! What, you not know that studios is in it for money? They have money, you are stupid! That is why you are loser!"

Re: Everwood

Thank you for making my point. One side in this discussion offers facts, reason, argument, and logic. The other resorts to name-calling, non sequiter, and sarcasm. It never answers the arguments of others, but simply repeats its own litany or changes the subject. Oh, and it sees insult where none of offered or even implied. How is offering information an insult?

But if you would be happier to see me get professorial for a moment, I'll be glad to oblige. Get hold of a psychology book. Look up the concept fo "projection".

Regards,

Joe

Re: Everwood

Great post Chris! You bring up some good points. Like the first season was, just maybe, released at the wrong time because the fan base wasn't as big at the time. Some have suggested that if the first season was put on DVD between the 3rd or 4th seasons airing, or even after the series finale, that the numbers would've been much better.

And, though I and other people have mentioned this already a few times earlier in this thread I feel I should mention it again in case someone from Warner is reading trhough this thread; they can put Marcia Cross on the cover of S2. Imagine, someone walking through BestBuy or wherever, and sees a DVD set with Marcia Cross on there, and thinks "hmm, isn't she on Deperate Housewives? I should pick this up. But wait, this is Season 2. I should get Season 1 while I'm at it!" POOF! An Everwood fan will be made to buy Seasons 3&4!

One last thing/rant, something about the bitching and moaning from Everwood fans, you have to remember. The WB chat last month, IIRC, was held the DAY AFTER the Series Finale had aired (and the show BTW was un-justly cancelled to make way for shows that had lower ratings). So when all the controversy with the chat and EW fans, it just seemed to add insult to injury with people discouraging EW fans to not giving up. To that I say, look at the Star Wars thread in the other forum. That's almost 50 pages of bitching and moaning about the new non-anamorphic DVDs.

Re: Everwood

I'm sure you were self-amused by your triumphant retort. The fact is, if you can't see how condescending and rude the tone of your posts really are, it's because you stand in your own shoes and don't have to suffer the brunt of your exaggerated, narcissistic, and know-it-all postings. One or two of your posts read like masterpieces of snobbish, yet subdued invective. I am very grateful when others share their knowledge and viewpoints in this and other forums, but the clear implication of some of your posts is that we are stupid and that you are not. I do not mean to embarrass you by calling you out, but please realize that you can come across as insulting to others. At the top of this page, you posted "I will say no more." It would be nice if you kept to your word.
...My apologies to the mods for all this, but I feel my and others' intellect was being attacked.

Signed,

Ethan Riley, the "Susan Powter" of the Couch Potato Set

Re: Everwood

Here's a little good news: Everwood is going to be rerun on ABC Family starting Oct. 2:

http://abcfamily.go.com/home.html

So I guess I'll be making my own dvds of the 2nd-4th seasons as they air; I urge others to do the same, since it appears our cause is over. Now if we can get them to rerun "American Dreams," all would be well

Re: Everwood

Just a reminder to fans who might be interested. ABC Family just started broadcasting Everwood last night, beginning with the Pilot episode. It airs M-F at 6pm EST. Not sure if the ratings will result in the remaining releases of S2-S4 of the show onto DVD from Warner Bros., but here's hoping they might take note if the ratings are really good.

Re: Everwood

The way they've snubbed the fans of Everwood on dvd, I don't think that even Gregory Smith becoming Pope would get them to release it. Let's just tape the whole series off Family and forget it.

Re: Everwood

There is a website selling all 4 seasons in a package for $199.99. If you really want them, it seems like that may be an option. For clarification purposes, I wouldn't recommend it...

Re: Everwood

If that site is selling what it claims to be selling, it is clearly dealing in pirated material sourced from God-knows-what.

(Which is probably why someone's removed the link. )

That's assuming you actually get a box of discs instead of an empty box or nothing at all for your money. Why would anyone want to give their credit card information to people they already know are, by definition, crooks?

People are always trying to get something for nothing, or a lot for a little, or something they can't get elsewhere. Conmen prey on exactly these desires. People concentrating on what they want are less likely to be looking out for dangers.

Regards,

Joe

Re: Everwood

Joe, you are probably correct. I actually chose not to post the link for that reason. Caveat Emptor.

Re: Everwood

Here's the site's feature list for their Babylon 5 complete series release:

• The Babylon 5 dvd collection in a boxed set, all 110 episodes on 30 DVD's are organize from pilot to finale.
• The Babylon 5 dvd collection also includes custom artwork and episode guides so you can find your favorite episode at anytime.
• The Babylon 5 dvd collection are formatted region free so they will play on any DVD player, DVD-ROM X-Box or PS2 Worldwide.
• All DVDs are presented in full screen, commercial free and unedited. Exactly the same as it was shown in American television.
• Presented in English
• This item has not been rated

This set was probably sourced from either the 4:3 PAL videotapes or a combination of the NTSC videotapes and off-the-air recordings because Babylon 5 has never had a 4:3 DVD release and never had a complete 4:3 NTSC release at all. (The VHS and LD releases were cancelled when rumor of a DVD release leaked out and sales dropped.)

They aren't even pirating the stuff from the actual DVDs. Maybe they think that somehow makes what they're doing "legal". But their cover art shows no studio logos or copyright notices, and the site is entirely lacking in trademark and copyright information. They don't even include the usual phony claim about offering "authorized" copies, they just ingore the whole issue.

I think you did the right thing in not including the link.

Regards,

Joe

Re: Everwood

I receive TONS of emails from people that have been ripped off by that site. Not because they got a pirated set with shoddy recordings, but because they didn't receive anything at all. Remember, these people are breaking multiple laws already, so stealing some of your money isn't a big deal to them. There's very little you can do to get your money back from them since they have no physical address. The best you can do is appeal to your credit card company.

I'd stay very far away from that site.

Gord

Re: Everwood

In fact, stealing some of your money may be the only reason the site exists. The whole "cheap TV DVDs" thing may simply be an elaborate form of "phishing", which could also explain why the set descriptions are so shoddy (and the English often questionable.)

Thanks for the insight, Gord.

Regards,

Joe

Re: Everwood

that site in question always baffled me. When they have "complete series sets" of shows from the 70's and 80's, wouldn't they just be syndicated edits?

However, I do think that other companies should look at that site and follow suit. Let Warner go ahead and release a limited run of "Complete Everwood" sets for $199.99 to battle the bootleggers. Instead of always doing complete sets for shows that the fans already own all the seasons for to begin with.

Re: Everwood

I think Warner should do what Fox does and release Everwood in volumes (2 volumes per season). I keep hearing from people that the season set cost too much money (keep in mind these are 15-20 year olds) and they couldn't afford to buy it until the price came down. Splitting the seasons and reducing the price should make it easier for these people to afford the sets, and allow Warner Bros to continue releasing it. It's not the ideal situation, but neither is the one we have now.

As for this site... they do ship some material out, they just rip people off as well.

Gord

Re: Everwood

I believe the site we are talking about is actually located somewhere in Asia. I have stumbled across more than one site, but they are all very, very similar, offer some of the same dvds and are probably run by the same crooks. Can't imagine why I'd buy anything from them when the real deal comes out in good time. For instance, they've been boasting their version of the complete Get Smart for a long time, on sale NOW for $129.99. Well, big whoop...the REAL Get Smart complete series is coming, so why should we be bothered with a bootleg?

Re: Everwood

Hopefully with "Everwood" now airing its entire run on ABC Family, new audiences will buy the first season DVD. ABC Family has already done an incredible job in promoting the re-runs. It's a good idea, going in "two volumes", but I'm concern about the music. Here's hoping if they take your advice, they'll keep the original music even though they've said it’s costly. I bought the DVD last year, and from what I've seen of the DVD (I haven't had time to watch all of the episodes and extras) Warner Bros. did a tremendous job with it. It's a wonderful family drama that should continue. I was curious about this series, but never watched it until somebody recommended it. I started watching "Everwood" on the WB when it came back on from hiatus (I started watching it in Season 3).

Re: Everwood

Just a reminder, season two of Everwood will begin airing on Thursday, November 2nd, with "The Last of Summer." Assuming there are no pre-emptions, we can tape all of season two by the end of November! By the end of January, we can tape the whole series. Take that, Warner Brothers! Here is a little episode guide, pasted from epguides.com :

24. 2- 1 15 Sep 03 The Last of Summer
25. 2- 2 22 Sep 03 Extra Ordinary
26. 2- 3 29 Sep 03 My Brother's Keeper
27. 2- 4 6 Oct 03 East Meets West
28. 2- 5 13 Oct 03 Daddy's Little Girl
29. 2- 6 20 Oct 03 Blind Faith
30. 2- 7 3 Nov 03 Three Miners From Everwood
31. 2- 8 10 Nov 03 The Burden of Truth
32. 2- 9 17 Nov 03 Just Like in the Movies
33. 2-10 24 Nov 03 Unhappy Holidays
34. 2-11 19 Jan 04 Family Dynamics
35. 2-12 26 Jan 04 Controlling Interest
36. 2-13 2 Feb 04 Forget Me Not
37. 2-14 9 Feb 04 No Sure Thing
38. 2-15 16 Feb 04 The L Word
39. 2-16 23 Feb 04 Unspoken Truths
40. 2-17 5 Apr 04 Unfinished Business
41. 2-18 12 Apr 04 Last Looks
42. 2-19 19 Apr 04 Sick
43. 2-20 26 Apr 04 Do or Die
44. 2-21 3 May 04 Your Future Awaits
45. 2-22 10 May 04 The Day Is Done

Re: Everwood

Everwood is on sale at Amazon again...this time for $13.99. Other great titles as well.

Re: Everwood

All things must end--today the last episode of Everwood is to be rerun on ABC Family. If you notice in their tv guide listings, however, there are no further episodes scheduled; which I guess means that they're not going to keep running it??? I hope this is only temporary. Maybe they'll show it again in the summer or something. If anybody hears any news, post it here! But it was nice of them to run the whole series all the way through. I kept to my word and dvd'd all the episodes of seasons 2-4, although I wound up missing a couple. Hopefully I'll get them the second time around.

Re: Everwood

It is. They havent said when they'll bring it back, but they did say they would eventually. They're replacing it with 7th Heaven until they do. (Oh, the irony!)

Re: Everwood

Hehehe actually 7th Heaven has been on the whole time Everwood's been running; it used to come on right before Everwood. But EW only takes 4 months to show in its entirety so they probably don't want people to see it over and over and get sick of it. Maybe they'll just run through the episodes twice a year.

And why the heck don't they show American Dreams instead, while they're at it? 7th Heaven is one of those shows that it seems is always on; American Dreams hasn't been seen even once in the two years it's been off the air--was the whole series just a dream, or does it really exist? I'm beginning to wonder--

Re: Everwood

??? You correctly note that Everwood burns through all its episodes in 5-day-a-week "stripped" syndication in about 16 weeks. Then you wonder why they aren't running American Dreams, which at 61 episodes would only last about 12?

There's a reason that the conventional wisdom in Hollywood is that you need 100 episodes to be viable in syndication, and this is exacly why. Comedies bear up better under repeated viewings than dramas, and a few genre shows with fanatical fan bases have managed to skirt the rule (think Star Trek at only 79 episodes.) But generally speaking any drama in reruns loses ratings points with every rerun cycle. Serialized dramas tend to lose audience faster since viewers rarely start "right back in at the start" after reaching the end. And shows with shorter runs fare even less well for obvious reasons. (By the time I've spent 6 months watching all five seasons of Babylon 5 I may be ready to go back to episode 1 and watch it again. But if I started a series that only ran two seasons a little over 4 weeks ago, I'm not likely to tune in again to watch episodes that are still very fresh in my mind.)

And reruns tend not to work when run once a week, for either fans or broadcasters -and, again, this is especially true of serialized dramas. The realities of production and sweeps periods determine how first run episodes of a show like Lost are aired, and fans have to put up with it. But nobody would want to see Lost reruns aired even once a week.

So few, if any shows with under 100 episodes have ever or will ever see the light of reruns, which is why TV on DVD is such a godsend to the studios (it can allow them to turn a profit on shows that would otherwise be money losers for them, since most scripted TV shows don't start making money until they are sold into syndication.) And any show in syndication (with the possible exception of perennials like the various Lucy shows, The Twilight Zone and in more recent times, Seinfeld) will gradually "burn out" in a given timeslot or on a given channel and need to be "rested' before it can air again.

This is all simply the nature of the business.

Regards,

Joe

Re: Everwood

Um...I just want to bring this up...

Amazon has a season 2 page up and I've been watching it for awhile now. Anyways, a couple of weeks ago, its status changed from "Currently Unavailable" to "Not Yet Released". Now, it would be pretty pointless to change the status of the DVD, unless something wasn't happening. So, could it be in production? Or am I reading too much into this?