Everwood

Re: Everwood

Not any time soon, apparently, unless Warner Bros. soon changes that.

Poor sales of Season 1 has prevented further seasons from being released.

It's their own fault - releasing S1 too early before the audience was firmly established. It should have been released during seasons 3 or this last season.

Re: Everwood

The first hour and 15 minutes of the Warner chat were absolutely carpet bombed with questions about Everwood even after Ron asked politely to move on to other subjects.

Re: Everwood

Really...

What were the official responses, if any?

Re: Everwood

well, you'd think Warner would get the hint. Not an Everwood fan but you'd think Warner would listen to the fans. I mean, they need to go back and look at season 2... MARCIA CROSS WAS A REGULAR THAT SEASON!!! That's great, they could use her likeness and Housewives popularity to sell tons of DVD's for season 2.

Re: Everwood

A vocal minority doesn't mean there would be lots of sets sold.

Gord

Re: Everwood

well, I don't see why Everwood wouldn't merit another sets release considering One Tree Hill does pretty well DVD sales for WB, and those two shows seem to have the same fanbase

Re: Everwood

Obviously if Everwood had sold in numbers comparable to One Tree Hill the other seasons would have been released. Given that they weren't, it seems clear that the two shows don't have the same "fanbase" and the comparison is flawed.

Between people asking 15 questions instead of one, posting long articles on the history of animation and pounding the dead horse Everwood into the ground despite WB's having answered the question already, I thought this was one of our more embarassing studio chats.

Regards,

Joe

Re: Everwood

actually, Everwood regularly scored higher ratings numbers than One Tree Hill, Everwood's cancellation had more to do with their producers problem with The WB than with low ratings.

Personally, I didn't partake in the chat but reading the logs of it, I am glad I didn't as there was nothing announced that was anything special. They will never listen to the fans. I don't even like Everwood (on the other hand, I do like One Tree Hill, so don't get defensive over it, I do realize that Everwood was a higher rated series that had a much more devoted fanbase that loved that show) but I guess it's a good thing all the Everwood fans came out and protested because Warner apparently doesn't GET that people want season 2. I don't want season 2 myself, but I know a lot of people who do. I just thank god that there's only like two WB-owned shows I am even considering getting on DVD, and both of them seem to do fairly well (Supernatural and OTH... the older shows I won't even mess with since I know there's not a snowballs chance in hell I'll ever see the complete Alice on DVD, much less season 1). WB are more unreliable than Sony in terms of following up sets.

Re: Everwood

All I can say is that it is such a shame.

It was always a dear favorite of mine, and the idea of not giving the show new life on DVD - for others to discover is just kicking us fans while we're already down.

Re: Everwood

And this ratings stuff has what to do with DVD sales, which is what we were talking about before you changed the subject?

Ratings mean nothing. Some shows do huge ratings but nobody wants to own them. Other shows do modest ratings but sell very well on disc. (A network "flop" can draw several million viewers per week. If a fraction of them buy the DVDs the show is a monster hit on disc.)

DVD sales determine which releases continue and which don't. Not ratings. Not how other shows do in either sales or ratings. If the sales aren't there, neither are the discs.

And yes, WB does "get" that a tiny minority of people who didn't buy the shoiw in sufficient numbers to make it profitable still want the studio to release it. That's nice. So what? What the fans don't "get" is that Warner Bros. is not a charitable institution whose mission is to lose money releasing TV shows that nobody wants to buy. Using the chat to demonstrate that they are a tiny, rude and obnoxious minority hardly seems the way to get what they want. But despite the boorish and the obviously marginal sales, WB has actually said that they're still considering future releases - which show amazing forebearance as far I'm concerned. Of course this isn't good enough for some people and gets dismissed as "nothing" by folks who missed the fact that WB was quite forthright in saying, "We're not releasing that" about shows they definitely aren't releasing for one reason or another. "Under consideration" means "under consideration". It meant it at 8:00 Eastern and it still meant it at 9:30 or 10:00 when people were still trying to sneak in Everwood questions after Ron asked them to knock it off. Even the WB guys were making jokes about it by the end of the chat. I think that's embarassing.

Regards,

Joe

Re: Everwood

well, talking about Warner losing money, I think them releasing endless "best of Friends" sets is throwing money away more than anything else. Friends is not a show that someone might buy a "best of" disc to sample the show out, they see the show every night in reruns, and all 10 seasons are out on DVD and can be found for relatively cheap prices. If Warner stopped releasing so many damn useless "Best of Friends: Weddings" type sets (and I believe they released something like fourteen of them this year), they might have more money to be able to go back to Everwood, Without A Trace and other sets that I think are more in-demand.

I only am thankful that there isn't anything in Warner's vaults I consider "all time favorite", and luckily, my current favorite show, "Supernatural" is still current enough that the DVD should be able to turn profitable for Warner, plus it caters to the sci-fi/horror niche, which has turned over so successfully on DVD.

Re: Everwood

Obviously I didn't see any of what went on with regards to Everwood - I knew many would ask about it considering its finale aired Monday night.

Perhaps they were bitter and that carried over to their DVD questions about the show?

Re: Everwood

A lot of lurkers and alias' were there tonight who didn't get kicked off. It's a tough job moderating a chat, and I tip my hat of Ron & Parker for doing their best to keep things orderly, and although MY post about WB classic animation and the quest for controversial WWII material seemed long winded, it was a lot better than sniping the chat with requests for Everwood after repeatedly being told not to do so. The last person who did this directly got booted off the chat, and someone still got in a backhand word praising the show without actually asking for it.

Everyone else said "where's this", "where's this", "where's this?" - God that was repetetive. At least the Fleischer/Famous "Popeye" cartoons are finally coming to DVD. That was only officially announced today, and was mentioned at the chat before appearing on Yahoo! News.

TV on DVD may not be the cash cow studios had expected, with the costs of remastering, sourcing out materials, and paying ever-increasing music royalties and licensing fees, they have to be absolutely sure of a return on their investment.

BTW, it was a chat for Television and Animation, not Television Animation, so don't get uptight about those of us who asked for WB and MGM Theatrical cartoons.

Re: Everwood

I don't understand the bitterness directed towards "Everwood." It seems to me to be matter of "hurry up and wait." You never know what's going to happen 10 years up the road. I mean, 90210 has been sitting on the shelf, waiting for a major home video release for 16 years now. If interest in Everwood continues, maybe they'll find a way to release it someday. If not, hopefully it'll be prolific enough in syndication that we can just tape it.

Re: Everwood

I'm not surprised about what happened in the chat. I mean, the series finale was the day before. Really sucks the rest of the series probably won't get released. Seems weird, though, that it isn't getting more releases on DVD because people won't buy the first season, but when it got better ratings than OTH and VM, it got cancelled while the other two get renewed.

Re: Everwood

I was also frustrated with the chat. It was inconsiderate of those repeatedly asking for Everwood to take up the time in the chat asking the same thing over and over. Seemed like a coordinated effort to get to the Warner folks. A much better tactic would be a letter-writing campaign. I agree with Joe that it was embarrassing for the rest of us who had other questions and were interested in what else Warner had to say.

Re: Everwood

What is "weird" about a show that didn't sell well on DVD not getting further DVD releases? Again, RATINGS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH DVD SALES! APPLES! ORANGES! APPLES! ORANGES! APPLES! ORANGES!

I'm beginning to see why Everwood fans kept posting to the chat after Ron asked them not to. They weren't ignoring Ron, they just didn't understand what he was saying.

The cancellations in The WB/UPN merger have nothing to do with how the shows performed on The WB or what WB management thought of them and everything to do with how the UPN people think they're going to do on the new CW network and whether or not Les Moonves likes them.

And none of that has anything to do with the main criteria on which DVD release decisions are made - the comparative profitability of a given release - either.

Regards,

Joe

Re: Everwood

I am an Everwood fan who was in on the chat last night, and even I got frustrated by the endless q's about it. Especially with the person who started attacking WHV for cancelling the show (although WHV would have nothing to do with how The WB chooses it's shows, and now that it is the CW WHV has even less to do with it).

I do hope though that WB decides to release further seasons.

Re: Everwood

The Everwood questions were embarassing, I agree - but all studio chats have people asking multiple questions, that's nothing new. I must have missed the "long articles on the history of animation" but the chat was for Television AND Animation, so people asking about animation releases seemed appropriate to me.

And I did think that were some exciting announcements, especially if you are a fan of theatrical animation. I was delighted by the chat.

Re: Everwood

I know some people are saying NOBODY would buy a season 2 set of Everwood, but I don't get it.... consider these:

1. there are a lot of people who are holding off getting season 1 until they know season 2 and onward is out.

2. Everwood DOES have a fanbase and I highly doubt it flopped that badly on DVD, it just isn't as prolific as Gilmore Girls nor does it have the "heartthrob" appeal that One Tree Hill does, so the sales were a bit slower. Yet at the same time, I highly doubt that "nobody would buy it".

3. Marcia Cross!!! Paramount is apparently even going to release seasons 1 and 2 of Melrose on DVD on the same day. At least among circles I know, she's the most beloved Housewife. Throw her face on the season 2 DVD cover and watch sales skyrocket (much like WB had no immediate plans for Lois And Clark, but then released it to cash in on Teri Hatcher and it's done very well). (and when options 1 and 2 aren't enough, this should be the dealbreaker)

4. the show just ended, I guess the fans are really sour right now about the way they were done wrong. They took their frustrations out on WHV and can you really blame them? It's not like all the Everwood fans can at least take solace that they will be able to watch all the episodes on DVD whenever they want. Whereas if One Tree Hill was cancelled, fans would be bitter, but they at least have the DVD's to fall back on and enjoy.

Re: Everwood

Of course the subject was both TV and Animation. But some people were posting questions on these topics, they were posting long, tedious, pre-written essays. It was the chat equivalent of what I often see at book events on C-SPAN 2's "Book TV" weekends or hear on the C-SPAN call-in shows. Instead of asking a focused question and getting to the point someone gets up and makes a speech. Usually these things start with the Big Bang and end earlier the same morning, when the speaker/writer finally gets around to the question. I find this tedious, annoying and rude. (Not to mention egotistical.)

Regards,

Joe

Re: Everwood

So is this an Everwood thread or a 'lets bitch about that HTF chat because EVERWOOD FANS RUINED IT' thread?

Or are they one and the same?

Re: Everwood

Please show me one post in this thread where anybody said that NOBODY would buy the show. Take your time, we'll wait.

Oh, look at that. There are no such posts.. Look up "strawman argument". That's where you claim your opponent in a debate has taken a position he hasn't, then argue against your own misrepresentation rather than deal with the issue at hand or what has actually been said.


Strawman #2. Nobody said it didn't have a fanbase. Changing the subject is not debating. Neither is lying.


It doesn't matter what you "highly doubt". Business fact: If Everwood did as well on DVD as shows that have made it past S1, it would also have made it past S1. It didn't. Ergo, it didn't sell as well. Which part of this progression escapes you?


Now there's an understatement. Your chances of understanding it would go up considerably if you opened you mind up enough to learn something about how the DVD business actually works when people take the time to explain it (repeatedly) to you instead of endless repeating "But that's not how I want reality to be" and bringing up totally irrelevant "points" about TV ratings and or misquoting the posts that are trying to educate you.


Yes, I can really blame them. I do really blame them. Mature adults do not attack innocent third parties for the actions of others. That's something two-year-olds do on the playground. Adults deal with disappointments and act fairly. And when they misbehave they take responsibility for their actions and apologize.

Regards,

Joe

Re: Everwood

^ I agree. Like I said, I don't like Everwood enough to own but part of me hopes that all of the Everwood fans sent a message to Warner last night that 2 years is too long a gap between releases. No company stinks worse at releasing one set and then abandoning it.

Re: Everwood

So...is this an Everwood thread or a 'lets bitch about that HTF chat because EVERWOOD FANS RUINED IT' thread?

Re: Everwood

you said earlier on this thread that releasing season 2 would be a financial fiasco because "What the fans don't "get" is that Warner Bros. is not a charitable institution whose mission is to lose money releasing TV shows that nobody wants to buy.". As far as I'm concerned... nobody wants to buy, and nobody would buy are one and the same. If nobody would want to buy something, why would they buy it?

You really sound like you need a dosing of some Everwood (since it's a "nice" show) considering how serious and personal you take things. Lighten up, there's no need to be a jerk to others.

Re: Everwood

Unfortunately that's what killed the show on DVD. Had those fans bought season 1 then Warner Bros would have seen strong sales for the show and season 2 would have been released. Waiting for the next season before you buy the one that's out is what holds up the release of the next season.

If you love a show and want to see it continued on DVD then you should buy the sets as they come out, and encourage your friends to do so as well.

Gord

Re: Everwood

Ya know, I wasn't gonna go there, which is why I asked about the status of this thread as a whole...

Re: Everwood

The real problem is the business model of the media industry. Instead of earning a little profit on multiple releases over an extended period of time, they seek to make an instant killing out of a handful of expensive and risky "blockbusters". The result is a bastardization of culture, and a smothering of diversity, creativity and imagination. It is not that they lost money on the first season of Everwood - it is only that they didn't make a gazillion out of it, and under their current drug dealer mentality of getting rich quick they can't conceive of steadily making some money here and a little more there... eventually adding up to something meaningful.

But even then, they might think of investing in the goodwill of the people who pay their salaries. Releasing the remaining seasons won't bring in the earnings they expect - but it will keep their customers happy and make them grateful. Isn't that worth anything for these people? Don't they mind that their brands become a synonym of mediocrity, unreliability and shabbiness? Don't these neanderthals understand the value of not having their customers despise them? I know I couldn't care less about these vultures getting ripped off by downloaders, and sure as hell would not support any measure intended to help them fight any form of piracy...

My favorite classical label is Naxos. I never download any of their albums - always gladly pay for them as a way of supporting a worthy enterprise. They subsidize recordings of lesser known composers through sales of more popular opera and theme compilations. Its founder and owner even acknowledges that certain recordings won't ever recoup its cost. Surely they could scrap the complete orchestral works of Penderecki and marginally improve their earnings in the short term, but they record them anyway out of their love for music.

And you know what? Not only do they not go bankrupt - they have displaced the traditional, big conglomerate executive-run major labels and are now the largest classical label in the world. And the most profitable too. Whenever I must choose between competing versions, I always pick a Naxos CD. And all my friends and relatives do so as well. See, running your business in a decent manner pays off too.