Star Wars discussion from The Bits... - Page 3

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Lucasfilm, if you are monitoring this, I also will not buy these movies if there are anamorphic transfers. From the announcement I have gone from elated to being very disappointed. I don't need digital cleanup. Anamorphic enhancement is a must. Thank you.

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I need to apologize for things I said in the previous thread. I mentioned that I was disgusted with George Lucas and that he would have no future business from me in the future.

I said this in anger and it was an impulse statement. I've never particularly been against the "Special Editions", but I feel that it is wrong for GL to release these in the format he is about to.

I've brought myself down to earth a bit, and am cooled off. But I honestly can't see myself buying a dvd release that is non-anamorphic. Not at this stage in dvd. Please, Lucasfilm, release these in anamorphic widescreen. Give these historical films the treatment they deserve.

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Should the Original Trilogy be restored for posterity? Absolutely.
Should the restored editions be made available to consumers in the highest quality possible? Certainly, if not on DVD then HDDVD/Blu-Ray.

Now let me play devil's advocate. This forum is flooded with die-hards who have been clamoring for the unaltered trilogy. Do they represent the buying public as a whole? I can't say. Mr. Lucas doesn't seem to think so. Speaking for myself, I had no intention of buying the Sept 12th release even if it had been anamorphic and Dolby digital EX. Why? Because I like the new souped-up special editions. They are more enjoyable and the special effects are superior. Personally, I have no desire see to the original versions ever again. And it's just possible that the majority of the buying public feels the same way and this set might not have sold enough copies to finance a restoration.

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I will agree that it's sad that these won't be anamorphically enhanced. I would buy them in an instant if they were anamorphic, but now I may be rethinking my purchase.

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It's simply bewildering. Lucas created THX to bring us quality presentation in the theater and home. Lucas had minimum requirements for theaters who wanted to show Star Wars. Yet there is absolutely no effort made at a quality presentation of the three films that started it all.

I will NOT buy these discs if they are released non-anamorphic.

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Guys,

Just to let you know....

I have contacted Video Business and Home Media Retailing
Magazine about this situation.

These are two leading trade publications and at least one has
expressed an interest in covering this story. I am awaiting to
hear from the second magazine.

I have pointed out that LucasFilm is simply slapping a 13-year-old
transfer on DVD with absolutely little to no restoration and as a
non-anamporphic release.

Folks, this is a 13-year-old transfer they are slapping on
this DVD. Think about that!

I am being urged to tell all of you this....

Make as much noise about this as possible.

Please write emails to the address we have given above.

Use this thread to politely express your dissatisfaction and
make a point that these DVDs be given the same restoration
effort that were given to the Special Editions.

You have no idea how much YOUR efforts here mean to those
who cannot openly voice their own concerns. To be more specific,
I would bet (though just a guess) there are too many people involved
in the DVD Industry who are probably just as upset as all of you. I
can't see anyone who loves these films to be happy about the manner
in which they are being released.

Make noise!

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Here is a very good editorial that's worth the read(even though it's quite long):

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/editor...ilogy_dvds.htm


Thanks for the information, Ron and also for responding to the e-mail I sent you earlier today.

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Thank you, Mr. Harris, for your involvement in this effort. I appeal to the Lucasfilm people to do these films justice. Even if George Lucas is not personally enamored with these versions, I call upon him and the rest of Lucasfilm to produce a proper restoration out of professional pride, if nothing else. Look at yourselves in the mirror and ask yourselves if you, who consider yourselves one of the best film production companies in the world, really wish to release the old laserdisc transfers as representative of the kind of work you are capable of. Mr. Harris has made it clear that a proper restoration is both possible and not unreasonably difficult. So do the right thing, artistically, professionally, and monetarily.

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It's the bare minimum. A non-anamorphic transfer shouldn't even be contemplated - let alone broadcast as some kind of exciting home video event.

That's what really bothers me. That Jim Ward and Lucasfilm promotions seem to be (insultingly) underestimating the Home Theater audience. I can see them imagining it would fly right past most of the general public, but did they really not anticipate this kind of disappointment from a big chunk of the die-hards - the ones they are obviously targeting RIGHT NOW.

C'mon.

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Mr. Harris,

Thank you so much for your participation in this thread. Can you explain the differences between the source options Bill gave in his post (interpositive prints and separation masters) and how those may differ when transferred to DVD? And how would those materials compare to the ones used to restore the 1933 version of King Kong?

And just for the record I would like to add my name to the list of those disappointed with the fact that these films are not be released in anamorphic widescreen.

Thanks,
Chris S.

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No offense to Lucasfilms.

If its too late in the game to makes these releases anamorphic I'd be willing to purchase these discs at Walmart prices ($10/ea.) like all the other 4:3 and letterbox widescreen discs as long as GL would promise a quality release of the original trilogy in the future.

I don't know how Lucasfilms expects to sell them at $30/ea. when customers that already have the 2004SE versions don't need them and the die-hards that want the original trilogy won't buy them because they are not anamorphic. Who is the target market?

P.S. I apologize if I was one of the posters that offended someone in the closed thread.

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Thanks Ron- that is exactly what was needed to be done.

this is it fellas, look sharp and get your best pull quotes ready

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Just adding my support to those who have said it much better than I ever can: treat these cinematic treasures on DVD as they deserve to be treated.

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legit question:

How is it that the current anamorphic dvd of A New Hope looks so damn good, and yet Lucas is unable to produce the same footage just without the digital cartoons that he keeps shifting around on the various releases? The fact that he keeps changing the digital additions is proof that he's been working from excellent, cleaned and restored, source prints. Wouldn't that have logically been the first step in creating the "special" editions?

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I had a question for Robert, or possibly one of the other knowledgable members of this forum.

However, I will precede it by chiming in "un-anamorphic is un-acceptable". People keeping saying '2006 technology' - I prefer to use a little hyperbole; this is technology from the previous millenium; even 2000 technology would be better! Lucasfilms, we expect better of you, and it's your own fault, because you guys have set a pretty damned good bar for us.

Now, Robert, or anybody, there's something that doesn't make sense to me. It's probably just me. The story on the digital bits (and threads as well) is that the negative was destroyed during the restoration process. That actually does make sense to me ... or, at least, enough sense.

But what I don't get is the claim that there is no clean restored version ... some people say it's because the restoration was done at the same time that the Special edition stuff was being inserted, but this doesn't make sense to me. Surely you would not hire the same people do be both restoring the film (which is a specialty art) and doing brand new CGI animation (which is a different specialty art), at the same time, right? It seems to me like there would've been two (or more) teams working, some group restoring the picture, others working on the new effects, and then they'd have to be combined at some point ...

So, am I just stupid? Shouldn't there be a fully restored (as of '97, anyway) version?

I do accept that there's some reason that computers can't just remove all the things which were added in by computers initially, or, at least, that it would be cost-prohibitive to do so. But I really don't understand how it could be that there would be *no* clean version of the restored footage (or, perhaps it would be more accurate to say, their explanation doesn't sufficiently explain it away, to me).

EDIT: whoops, guess I was a bit too slow. So, yeah, same question as the one above me.

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Edited response: Ron guessed at best that several folk are dumb founded about this decision.

Why are they remaining tightlipped ? Fear of losing their jobs or worse perhaps

RAH on the other hand is very different as he is most likely the best person to get this sorted.

He's right about moving the release date back to Christmas so that an anamorphic version will be released.

Was The Abyss ever released in anamorphic form ?

Cheers

Oscar

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It just seems it doesn't need to be this hard and this boneheaded, it really doesn't.

let's break it down.

The people this is aimed at are the people who would understand how terribly out of date and sub-par a 1993 D1 Laserdisc Master would look when compared to the standard of even bargain bin DVD releases today from any other studio.

You've got the guy behind the restorations of Vertigo and Lawrence of Arabia pretty much VOLUNTEERING to do the work FOR YOU, at a low price, and on time(depending on if/when he gets hired), at a price that will impact the bottom line and expected profit on these things little to not at all, and as a matter of fact, his involvment with the project for that price would probably add prestige and desirability to the project that wasn't there previously, and CERTAINLY wasn't there once the Letterbox Port information was made known.

It's unfolding perfectly in front of you, and at the worst case scenario--you push this set back to late November/Early December. THAT's the worst case if you go this route. If you go the other route--worst case gets worse. Exponentially.

The gamble is that the fans you're targeting this at are as apathetic about the release as you are. And I don't think the odds are as good that is the case. Harris is laying out how to make those odds better for minimal effort on your part, I don't see how this isn't a no-brainer, especially in the face of a large and influential part of your base effectively RISING UP AGAINST YOU almost 6 months before the thing hits shelves along with a new wave of toys and video games.

Hire Harris. Push this thing back about 60 days. Tell everyone why, and tell everyone what's really coming. The ad copy will look nicer. The stories will be more postive. The word of mouth will spread. The product will become more enticing. More copies will be sold.

It seems real easy, to me.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

great catch Brent. That editorial is must reading, imo, and really puts everything into a new light.
tho, I'm not sure if it makes much of a difference (as far as divorce-related residuals would go) if the material is labeled as a bonus feature or not- or whether it is sourced from proper materials or not.
But it certainly seems to be a much more rational explanation why these have been kept from seeing the light of day for these last 9 years. And sadly, if this is accurate, and Lucas wouldn't want the practice contested, he would be left no option but to spin it publicly as something it isn't (i.e. that He wasn't happy with the originals, therefore he doesn't want them seen- or that they don't exist at all anymore, which is even more convienent if their existence and eventual disemenation would entail profit sharing with someone who betrayed him and left lasting wounds).

I have a little more sympathy for the man now, but I have to say, I think he's making a bad decision for the long term. Especially if he can't shoot straight about it- he just leaves ill will due to false impressions, and that will hurt in the long term. It would be much better, imo, to take a slight hit occasionally (once on dvd, once on HD, etc) let's say once every ten years or so, as bitter as it may be, and consider that a loss leader to the benefits of maintaining fanbase support.

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I actually don't think that editorial belongs here as it frames the whole argument in a more sprurious sorta light, really. It's more of a gossipy-type supposition and guessing game that could derail what's really going on.

The magazines are getting on board. Robert HARRIS is on Board. Bits, HTF, originaltrilogy--we got a nice little bit of momentum going forward. I think bringing up unfounded theories having to do with George Lucas' marital life doesn't actually add anything to this particular discussion.

it doesn't put anything into a new light as it so much does shift focus completely from what people here are trying to do.


Especially for a man historically known to ferret away everything he does and archive it, and for a man who has gone before CONGRESS to battle for preservation and spent a good amount of time fighting that fight along Scorsese and other prominent film preservationists. The divergence there would be the definition of folly, I'd think.

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If the financial thing has merit, fine, release them as BONUS FEATURES. But at least make the BONUS FEATURES be anamorphically enhanced like the other Star Wars DVDs bf's are.
And also, the Original STAR WARS, not Epsiode IV... was the version nominated for BEST PICTURE of 1977 as well as about 10 other oscars even though it was just a "work in progress" which in reality, almost all art is. (I have music and songs I have written and recorded that were never as good when finished as they were in my mind but I let them go as they were and moved on to other projects.) The SEs were never nominated for anything IIRC. For film history's sake, these films should be preserved and proudly shared.

d

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

I just thought it was an interesting read that others may want to take a look at since it's being posted in other SW forums. It certainly isn't meant to shift focus away from what's going on here and there are actually some good points made in the editorial about the transfer process, marketing, fan reaction, etc.

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Yes absolutely great reading indeed

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Don't change my words. I said this was my best "guess."

Listen, there are a lot of talented people in the DVD industry
who are as passionate about this format as they are for proper
film preservation and presentation.

I can only guess what the overall Industry reaction is when
being asked to release a 13-year-old transfer of STAR WARS on
DVD non-anamorphic.

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That's not true -- every effects shot, every wipe, every dissolve is newly recomposited. They aren't "changed" like the Greedo scene, but they are different.

I believe that what most people want are the special editions without the added scenes, but with the updated effects -- comparing the Hoth AT-AT attack scene is like night and day between the two versions, but no one is really crying out for it to be restored to its original look. The smoke effects in particular look terrible once you've seen the SE.


Actually, that footage in Empire of Dreams looks horrible. I don't know why people think it looks good -- it looks to me like it came from an older video source. If you're in the camp that thinks the crawl in Empire of Dreams looks good, I imagine you'll be perfectly happy with the non-anamorphic transfers.

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Hi Ron

Just re read your post.

You're right and have edited the wording as such

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.

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I can only speak for myself, but if even slightly accurate, it engenders my sympathy and I would be inclined to be a little less harsh and caustic in my criticism from now on.

but that is all I will say on it.

in the mean time I'll try to draft a nice, concise, and civil letter to LFL, though - much more civil than I had been planning to do prior. But if there are financial issues wrapped up in personal issues ( beyond the "I'm not comfortable with them" response), then it just seems to me this is going to be a very hard sell.

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UPDATE

Have spoken with editors from both Home Media Retailing
and Video Store Magazine. They are both very interested
in covering this story. Monday deadlines have been reached so it
will be another week before these stories emerge.

Two very funny stories....

When I spoke with one of the magazines, I was told that their
office was already "buzzing" about this Star Wars issue by staff
who read this forum prior to my phone call. Seems like everybody
who is a fan is taking notice of the injustice being done to this set.

Also, I happened to venture to another noteable DVD discussion
forum and had a good laugh. Their members are reporting that Bill
Hunt has got his facts wrong since his information didn't come from
Lucasfilm or Fox.

Well, let me help set the record straight. What Bill has reported
is absolute truth. Please let the other forum(s) know that you read
it here and on THE BITS first and it has been verified!