Star Wars discussion from The Bits... - Page 19

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

I've been too quiet, for too long...

If you already have the laserdisc set, why are you even interested in this set? That's been known almost since day 1, and everybody insists on running a laserdisc master through an anamorphic process. How much better will this make it? 1%? 2? 3.3333?

I don't have any copy of the OOT either, and I am thankful that I will be able to get it soon. Oh, and think guys and gals, this September release date is already cut in stone. If you don't belive me, ask LF about all the preperations that they went through to get this out when they wanted. We're not going to change that - get real!

IIRC, when LF decided to clean up & restore the 3 films for the SE's he only cleaned up what he wanted to save. The rest was tossed out. Then they cut up the original films and added the changes that make them the SE's - so "clean" copies of the OOT no longer exist. No one is going to 'loan' him a better copy for free, they are going to charge through his nose! Wouldn't you?

If you want to know what is going to happen, and really happen, it is that these are going to sell like they are they Holy Grail. With the only legal DVD copies out for a limited time, along with the great possibility that they may never be released again, well, I can see these selling on Ebay next year for over $1K - easy.

If you want a really nice-looking edition, then buy the SE's if you haven't done so already! That is what they are out for!

Glenn

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

First of all...what preperations ? Transferring an old LD master to a DVD master...1 day work tops. Send them off to the pressing plant...end of that

And if you really think that someone will pay $1K for these on eBay in a few years, I think you are kidding yourself. I suggest you count how many on this board only that wont even buy them for $30 because of the crappy transfer. So if thats your plan, good luck. And good luck competing with the bootleggers on eBay AND competing with the OOT community that goes out of their way to share these films for free to who ever wants them.

As many, you might have missed the point. We DONT want the really nice looking edition...we just want the crappy old one IN GODDAMN ANAMORPHIC WIDESCREEN which is the standard in 2006

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Hi there!

First post on this forum but have been reading these pages for a while now. All this fiasco has promted me to write though.

I to received the stock e-mail response from Lucasfilm this morning. While pleased that they'd make this effort for the fans, I am still STUNNED that they'd treat three of the most loved films - the films that made Lucasfilm! - of all time in such a way.

If anyone from Lucasfilm IS reading this, WHO exactly are you aiming this release at? The general public have - by and large now I would have thought - already bought the Special Edition DVDs, which were also craftily re-released at the beginning of this year using the ORIGINAL trilogy artwork... tricksy.... Who is left to buy the Special Editions now then or would want to? The only people who I imagine would want to buy this are generally those that want to see the original as it was originally seen in the cinema all those years ago, and hardcore fans such as myself. By showing that you are not willing to spend money on a proper anamorphically enhanced product, your target audience will most likely not be buying this release (evident from the posts on this and other forums) so you shoot yourselves in the corporate foot. This is not being released as 'a bit of fun' as we are the ones who would be forking out for this release, and the special editions YET AGAIN. I for one may hire this out out of curiosity, but I shall not be purchasing these editions. Enough is enough. These films deserve better as do the fans.

One thing I have yet to see mentioned, are these being mastered from the pre-DNR LD masters, or will they be JUST as they appear on laserdisc with the horrible 'dirt concealment' smears and shimmering picture (especially in the Hoth scenes)? If it is the latter then this really is a shoddy release and Lucasfilm should be ashamed. If not at least it will be of slightly higher quality than the original LD releases.

Either way it is still disgusting, especially as Lucasfilm are marketing this as something akin to The Second Coming!! Witness the cheeky "Han Shot First" T-shirts (a stolen idea I might add...) almost making the Greedo debacle seem like something to be proud of, and marketed!!!

Sorry Mr Lucas, enough is enough. No more Lucasfilm products for this fan.

- John

P.S. And this is all being done to 'celebrate' the debut of the SE's as individually purchasable DVDs now.... absolutely AMAZING. Will they stop at nothing to market the same product over and over again?!? Disgusting....

P.P.S A message for Mr Lucas as well... how would you feel if your favourite film of all time was - for example - colourised and new scenes added.. for example in the original King Kong or your favourite Flash Gordon serials? And then told that you will not be able to see the originals again - the ones you fondly remember seeing - in a high quality release, and that the originals had been destroyed and there would be no restoration? I'm sure you'd feel more than a little angry and gutted at the same time. Food for thought....

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Got me form email this morning, too. What struck me about it was this line:

"We hoped that releasing those “original” movies on a bonus disc would be a way to have some additional fun with the debut of the movies as individual DVDs."

So, they are releasing the films individually on DVD this fall and they thought it would be fun for us to buy them again just to get the bonus discs of a substandard, unenhanced laserdisc transfer.

I WILL NOT PURHCASE THIS SET.

We need to send a message to LFL.

BOYCOTT THE SALE OF THESE DISCS.

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I just have to laugh out loud.

LucasFilm has been screwing you fans over for years...

You bitch and complain and then run off to the well again...

Stop the madness....

"Buy Now, Buy More Now, Buy More and Be Happy!"

Dugger

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Thanks for your valuable input...

This isn´t the thread you are looking for...Move along...move along

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Anthony,

Why is this really an odd business decision? Lucasfilm releases non-anamorphic originals in September.....then in two years (maybe sooner), they release restored, anamorphic versions by "popular demand." The die-hards buy them twice on SD. Then, Lucasfilm gets to sell them in all of their flavors on HD....

I don't understand why it's so hard for so many people to see this! It's all about business and marketing here; it's not about the "perfect release." As I said earlier, this has been going on since the early 80's.

Trust me: the original, unaltered, restored and anamorphically enhanced Star Wars movies WILL eventually come to SD DVD and, finally, HD. History repeats itself.

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So, I have not read every single post here because this thing goes on forever, but when I saw the article in Video Business I had to come here and share my opinion on this situation.

What the hell is wrong with all of you guys?

Didn't George Lucas MAKE these movies? Isn't he the one who brought them to you in the first place? The ingratitude you show is staggering. These are NOT YOUR MOVIES, no matter what you think. They're his. To believe otherwise, to justify it in ANY WAY, is showing an egocentric, dim-witted mindset that far outstrips any egotistical action you think he took by "withdrawing" the "original" movies. HE MADE THEM. It's absolutely his right -- both as an artist and as a businessman -- to determine what the "final" versions are.

In the end, we're talking about, like, 2 minutes of changes for seven hours of movies. I mean, it's like MEANINGLESS. I am one of those people who does not care if Greedo shoots first, or if there are dinosaurs in the background, or if Anakin is old or young as a ghost. I'm one of those people who cares about STORY, and who enjoys watching the movies over and over because they're fun and entertaining, whether or not they are slightly "different" than the ones I grew up watching. You know what? George Lucas didn't like those rush jobs, which if you read the "Making Of" books (about these movies or any others) you know is always the result of trying to create a high-profile movie that has a set release date. It's the nature of the beast, and few directors even CARE ENOUGH about their OWN movies to go back and make tweaks and improvements (yes, improvements) once they're released because 1) they usually take the money and run, and 2) they don't use their own money to finance the movies they make.

I just cannot believe what big pussies you are all being about this. Anamorphic, non-anamorphic.... whatever! You are geting what you asked for. Lucasfilm didn't need to release these movies at ALL, because as so many of you pointed out, George said he never would. But you know what? It seems like THEY LISTENED TO YOU and went back on their "word" and now you're giving them shit for it because it's not EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANTED. What whiners. It would serve you all right if they made an announcement saying, "You know, we thought this was going to be something they'd like, but they clearly don't, so we're not going to do it after all, lest they continue their anger."

Then you'd complain about THAT and say what jerks they're being.

Is there no pleasing you?

You're all absolutely right that virtually no movies are released in non-anamorphic versions anymore. But if you read everything Lucasfilm has said, they're not releasing the originals as A-side releases, they're "bonus material" -- if it's a slapdash job, it's because someone HEARD YOUR WHINY ASSES and said, "Maybe we should do this finally." Cuz it sounds like this is the ONLY time it might happen, despite all of the conspiracy theories you have.

Can't you just accept that they are doing something THAT YOU ASKED FOR, and if you don't like it, DON'T BUY IT. Just because it's not 100% the way you wanted, does not mean Lucasfilm hates you or is slapping your face or is showing contempt for you. Everything I've seen indicates it's all because they even bothered to listen to you in the first place, but the way you're all behaving in spite of it, I bet they wish they hadn't listened to you at all.

Relax. Enjoy. You are not being forced to buy this. Keep your shiny laserdisk players if necessary. Continue with your bootleg copies. (Why Lucasflim bothers to pay heed to those who rip it off as a company, though, I'm not sure I understand... do you even know what "bootleg" means?!) Enjoy "Star Wars" the way you always have.

If one DVD release is enough to make you stop being a fan, then you really can't have been that big of a fan to begin with....

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Dear Jeff,

I agree with some of your points, but this goes beyond the mere DVD release, and into the realms of film preservation. It appears many copies of the original film have been destroyed which is disturbing to say the least. I am afraid the originals remained that way (original!) for years before Mr Lucas decided to improve them, and it is that version which practically all of us on this thread would like to see released again, properly. Personally speaking I wish to purchase the versions I saw in 77/80/83 in the same quality as ANY other release - is that being unreasonable? Don't forget that in 1997 he declared that he was 100% pleased with the Special Editions, and yet in 2004 he changed scenes AGAIN. Are we to have a different version of the films every couple of years or so? It's simply ridiculous....

Mr Lucas does not SOLELY own the film (except legally perhaps) - alot of people contributed to making these classics, and a great deal of their work was thrown away to make way for the Special Editions. It would be a shame if their hard work wasn't preserved for future generations to enjoy, and to compare with the revised editions. Film history should not be erased like this.

If this is to be just a laserdisc-dvd transfer, then perhaps they should not have released it as a FULL-price disc, and NOT with the Special Editons which just about everyone owns now anyway?...

I'm sorry but from what I can see there is NO reason to thank Lucasfilm at this point - this release is a disgrace on every level.

- John

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The point of the thread, for once, isn't to complain about the SEs. Your points that I agree with you on (like enjoying Star Wars) are all lost when you call people "egocentric, dim-witted" "jerks" "big pussies" and "whiny asses". But let's face it, you only joined and posted just to start problems anyway.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

JeffRay,

This is not millenniumfalcon.com, where it is, apparently, cool to swear incessently whilst making your 'point', nor is it theforce.net, or even dvdtalk.com. The Home Theater Forum is one of the last bastions of intelligent discussion left on the Internet where Star Wars in concerned, so thanks for coming in and bringing it down to the level of the rest of the Internet, for a short while anyway. I trust you will enjoy your short stay with us.

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I also agree that its GL´s movies. No doubt about that. But he must also know that the fans MADE him and Lucasfilm what it is today. If he decided to never release the OT, fine with me. I and many others will stick with our LD ports. But as I and many others have stated, releasing them in knowingly in a worse transfer than he can, is pissing up and down his fans backs to be perfectly honest...

And JeffRay, you are certainly entitled to think that the 2004 versions are better, but if you had spend some time reading posts in this thread, this is really about the true fans of the OT, and like it or not, we are gonna bitch and moan about this release for the lack of an anamorphic transfer. That how much WE care about these movies. Call us ungrateful fanboys all you want, but at least accept OUR side of things...If you are happy with Greedo shooting first, I really dont understand why you post in this thread in the first place

Imagine being a little boy that has been promised a nice big tasty ice cream for weeks and weeks...And when he finally gets it, its covered in poo just because the one that bought it didnt like the flavor of icecream. Sure, you COULD eat it...But would you really ?

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

The only version of the originals I've owned was a pan n scan VHS boxset in 1995. Unlike many of the others, I do not have as big emotional attachment to the originals. I was considering buying this year's version in the originals were anamorphic, but as it stands now I'll pass as I am satisfied with the 2004 DVDs and wait for the Archival Editions next year.

As for Jeff, don't feed the trolls. Move along, move along.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

I noticed one of our staff members banned Jeff. Good Riddance!

I don't mind opposing opinions on this forum. I do mind
individuals who have no idea how to express themselves in
an adult manner.

This thread was moving along so well until that one post.

I'm happy to see we are just going to continue here without Jeff.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

EDIT: My apologies...this was written before Cees' post.

Members of Home Theater Forum care about the presentation of major film releases. Most of us recognized that the OOT would not get the lavish treatment the SEs did when they announced this release. We did not expect a full cleaning or a remastered soundtrack. We did expect a quick polish, decent sound (stereo or Dolby PL), and STANDARD DVD presentation. They are failing to meet the minimum standards required of any major DVD release. Pretty simple.

Yes, the marketing has made the spin that it's an extra, and maybe the execs at LFL will tell GL how popular the 2004 SE is selling in September and not mention the extra (which is the only thing anyone cares about regarding this release). As others have pointed out, it's the first "extra" treated so shoddily by LFL. I hate to shock anyone, but Star Wars is as much about presentation as it is story. That's why this matters. If story was all that matters, Star Wars would not be a fraction of what it is today. Much of GL's genius came from his PRESENTATION of a well-worn story.

To the MANY members keeping this thread civil and intelligent, a big thank you. SW discussions often draw out folks on both sides with **** to stir up. I hope LFL reconsiders, but I've effectively resigned myself to keeping my LD player, and simply not watching these movies very much. It's not the end of the world. It's just a odd choice from a company that takes pride in quality assurance and presentation.

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Please don't even respond to uninformed posts like Jeff's. Just look at his profile. Amazingly he joined the forum today and posted only once and that was it!

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Mr Harris, I doff my cap at you sir

M

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I like that VERY much...Lot of sarcasm, but still on target and civil

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Well said, Chuck. I am keeping my LD player, too.

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But who repairs LD players should they break? Do they even make the replacement parts anymore?

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

To clarify something, based on what they've said (and other people have said), they're not using the laserdisc itself as the master; they're using the master which was created to be used on the LD (and VHS), which was at a superior quality to LD. So making it anamorphic would be a more significant improvement than you think (though it also means that, as is, the release will be better than the LD).


The process could apparently be finished within their timeframe, though discussing that side seems, at this point, moot.


Good luck with that; I can guarantee you you won't get $100 for the full trilogy any time in the next five years. If it ever got near the point where people were making $100 or more, the bootleggers would start up again and the market would drop.

Also, you're confusing "limited availability" with "limited printing". If they were limiting it to even 100,000 copies, you might have a chance at making some decent profits off of Ebay after a few years. As it is, everybody who does want it (far less than when first announced) will either buy it on the day it comes out or wait until it gets as cheap as possible; nobody will pay more, let alone the crazy mark-up you're expecting. The average person who sees the release will say "Oh, Star Wars, I bought that two years ago" and not re-buy it.

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Sorry, no sale here.

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I don't post here much but I saw this thread today and just wanted to voice my opinon. I was excited when I heard the news the OT was going to be released even though it meant I would have to rebuy 3 movies I already own. But there is no way I will be purchasing these if they are released non-anamorphic.

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If they said they had to go back to the vaults to find the original material for these releases (including the original opening crawl), then that means you are not using the original Laserdisc master. And if that's the case, why not master it for 16x9? Am I missing something here? Or is it simply a case of modifying the Laserdisc master to include a few bits and pieces to make it "vintage 1977"?

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I'm not as familiar with the process of transferring a film to video as are others here, so correct me if I'm mistaken, but it's my understanding that the laserdisc master itself is non-anamorphic. Therefore, it doesn't really mean anything to "make it anamorphic"; at best, this master could be upconverted to a higher resolution, but that doesn't add any actual detail to the picture. It might look better than the upconversion performed by your DVD player or your television, but it won't reveal any detail in the image that a non-anamorphic transfer of the same master wouldn't.

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No, people are insisting on a NEW master from an original film source that includes the enhancement for 16x9 TVs. This alone would provide a 33% increase in vertical resolution. In addition, mastering technology is FAR better than it was 12 years ago, so you would have a MUCH better looking DVD in EVERY respect.

I don't ever remember a studio showing lower respect for film quality than Lucasfilm is showing with this release.

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If Lucasfilm do see sense and cancel this release, if they really wanna do something for the fan's, they should release the original film's by themselves, with the 3 original making of documentaries that are as sort after as quality versions of the Original film's.

To J.P. the vault materials they are using are the laserdisc master's. As this is a non hi-def, non anamorphic master, upconverting it to anamorphic will have little, if any, effect on improving picture quality.

M

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Yet the announcement on the official STAR WARS web site explicitly mentions that the "Episode IV: A New Hope" subtitle will be absent from the opening crawl, which is most definitely not the case on the laserdisc. Has anyone been able to figure out exactly what the situation is with regard to this detail?