Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › DVD › Star Wars discussion from The Bits...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Star Wars discussion from The Bits... - Page 18

post #511 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Quote:
Keep in mind--the very first non-anamorphic extra on a Star Wars DVD, ever--is a Star Wars movie.
That is something that bears repeating. We're not asking for the OOT to get "special treatment." We're asking it to get the bare minimum treatment that every other SW DVD extra has gotten thus far.

You know what's ironic too, is that Lucasfilm claims they won't go to any length of trouble for this "workprint" that we know as the OOT, but they were willing to go out of the way to finish effects on deleted scenes in Ep1&2. Which, by the way, were 16x9 enhanced as well.

So they've placed more importance on scenes deleted from Ep1-2 than they have in the original versions of the movies that put Lucasfilm/THX on the map.
post #512 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

And it just seems an odd business decision. When they went to that trouble--they made sure to market it to the same people they're marketing this to--the hardcores. The die-hards. The kind of people who would CARE that scenes cut out of the movie got cleaned up.

To spend all that money running ads and all that to excite that same audience about the original versions--and then, for the first time ever, put out a DVD extra not only below their own standard, but 13 years below their own standard? That just doesn't seem like something Lucasfilm wants to be known for. That doesn't seem like a decision Lucasfilm would want to spotlight with a huge marketing campaign, by making that decision THE selling point of the release.

If someone like Mr. Harris gets the opportunity to do a new, straight no-chaser transfer for the DVD, everyone gets what they want:

The fans they're aiming this at get a new, anamorphically enhanced transfer to watch.

Lucasfilm dodges a PR bullet

Profits increase due to increased sales from the fans who won't buy the 13 year old non-anamorphic master currently being released.

So you get happier fans, more money, and the reputation isn't sullied.

I would think that's worth the minimal cost and effort you'd have to put in by hiring Robert Harris and letting him work his magic, or even going in-house and doing it there if you have to.

so if you're going to email publicity@lucasfilm.com, or even lynne.hale@lucasfilm.com to let them know--let them know that. Let them know changing their mind on this decision is just the best all-around solution for this problem. They don't want to anger the fans. They said as much. They want the fans to enjoy this. The fans they're marketing this towards are letting you know how they'd enjoy this. It's well within Lucasfilm's means to do this, and as proven by their prior releases, EXPECTED from a company who's a/v reputation is as shining as theirs is.
post #513 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Great posts, Carlo and Robert.
post #514 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Robert, thanks for leading the way. That's the tone this thread needs.
post #515 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Would it be considered rude to ask LucasFilm how much it would cost to make an anamorphic transfer, and then donating the money by buying the september release, shipping the contents back (with scrathes so they couldn“t be resold of course) and waiting to have them replaced by anamorphic transfers ? Like a replacement program for defective discs
post #516 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

It's the very fact that a new transfer of the originals could be created without inordinate investment of time or funds that should give people pause and cause them to reconsider whether they're firm on not wanting to snap up these upcoming limited editions.

These are the facts: Despite new transfers being well within reach, Lucas is still unwilling to make the investment in them. We are told the theatricals "don't represent his vision," that they're thought of as "something fun" for fans, that there is no plan for a new transfer; all pretty dismissive stuff. And pretty telling: Lucasfilm is treating them as they see them: like junk, like something--yes--to dump into the bonus features of a re-release on dvd. So with Geroge Lucas captaining that ship with that given perception, why would he bother with a new transfer? It might seem insane to the Home Theater Star Wars Purists (who adore the originals), but Lucas may actually HATE these versions, and with a passion. Artistically, the idea of pouring money into polishing these turds might be repellent to him. No, I mean actually.

In that sense, bothering to make these available again IN ANY FORM is generous. That, and yes, a business decision--albeit an especially maddening one for purists--to give the stand-alone discs a bit of a push.

I think it's entirely possible that Lucas may bury these originals somewhere down the road of the future of home video, especially when it comes to true High Definition formats, which will expose the limits of the non-enhanced original trilogy like never before. Well, it's a good bet that allowing his movie going public the chance to give added scrutiny to all the visual flaws in his films he spent millions on hiding in the SEs is not something he has in mind for glorious HD resolution. And if he doesn't have a taste to do a new transfer now for standard def (for any or all of the aforementioned reasons), he definitely won't later.

This time I'm inclined to believe--and take it as a warning--that this may be the final bow of the original trilogy.

And while that may be a little sad for those of us who'd like to see them in all their restored, anamorphic glory on widescreen, HD sets, in the face of the actual level of disregard Lucas has for them, I think we've all been given a nice opportunity to own them with this upcoming release.

One more point: I think it's sad that we've grown so insistent upon the state-of-the-art in presentation that we've allowed it to kill our basic enjoyment of these films. I mean, we are talking a solid laser disc transfer here, not VHS (and I can still watch that, and I've seen stellar dvds on massive screens). Choice can be a killer, so try letting your lack of one in this instance liberate you to party like it's 1993 and enjoy these originals in rockin' SD, 480i... If you have to, go out and score yourself a sweet 36 inch, CRT set.


No, I don't work for Lucasfilm.



--Jack
post #517 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Thanks for your last couple of posts Robert. After receiving my email response earlier this evening from Lucasfilm I was feeling really bummed out about all of this. A total change from how I was feeling earlier in the afternoon. It's frustrating. The very fact that we have to even fight to get a basic anamorphic transfer for a movie on DVD in 2006 is just ridiculous to be quit honest. But sometimes life throws you a curveball and you have to fight for what you want. And I think that we all have been doing that in a productive and professional manner. So I'm going to keep following this issue, writing my letters to Lucasfilm, spreading the word to my friends, and doing whatever I can to keep working towards the end we all want. Thanks Robert (and everyone else) for re-focussing my perspective. Peace.
post #518 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Quote:
I think it's sad that we've grown so insistent upon the state-of-the-art in presentation that we've allowed it to kill our basic enjoyment these films.

No one's saying that, I don't think, nor is that the case here. We already enjoy them, and we enjoy them a lot. the problem is what lucasfilm is going to be offering up is the same master that we ALREADY HAVE. on LD and for some of us, on VHS. The exact same masters. I can party like it's 1993 at any time RIGHT NOW. This opportunity they're selling us is not the opportunity it COULD be.

They're spending a lot of time marketing this to us, the phrase "like you've never seen before" actually being a tagline. Except not only is this something we've seen before, it's something we've already been sold before. back then, yes, it was good. Now? It makes Lucasfilm's quality control look not so hot--and that's something the company has never stood for. It's always prided itself on being top-notch. The letters THX wouldn't even be in the average filmgoers vocabulary without Lucasfilm's commitment to excellence on that front.

I don't want to really get into guessing at George Lucas' mental state here. What he might be feeling or what he might not. That ends up just being tilting at windmills. And maybe this little email campaign, this getting the word out, "Making noise" as Ron has titled it, maybe that's tilting at windmills too. But we got SOMETHING out of em, even if it's just a form letter and a public response to the industry magazines asking some questions about what their readers are going to have to stock on their shelves come september, and whether it's going to be worth it not just for the store owners, but Lucasfilm itself and the fans who are supposed to take this product off their hands.

Let's keep this business minded. It's not really a case of "pouring money" into the release as it is INVESTING money so that they get a better return than the current return they're likely to get if they continue with this subpar product, which is ONE HELL of an anomaly as far as Lucasfilm's quality control goes.

If they're going to focus their marketing campaign on these bonus features, it just seems to make sense all around to put some of that money TOWARDS the bonus features. they're GOING to lose sales on this. They now, without at doubt, KNOW THAT. We need to let them realize how MANY that is, and how EASY it is to get those sales BACK.

None of this is going to cause me to like Star Wars any less. It's still a great movie. Me telling Lucasfilm that I think so and I want this great movie to be shown in a presentation befitting their company's reputation isn't, I think, a bad thing. I have a feeling that response letter was sent out hoping to get some of us to throw up our hands. But I don't see it that way. That was the second part of what I hope will become a fruitful CONVERSATION. I wrote an email back responding to the response. And I hope the rest of us keep doing that as well. We gotta keep talking.
post #519 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

We all know by now that Lucas hates his original films, but the fact is that these films MADE him what he is today. WE, the fans, made him what he is today by loving and embracing these movies and buying shitloads of Star Wars merchandise.

So, he hates the original films, well boo hoo. Im pretty sure The Rolling Stones, Madonna, Bob Dylan, Prince, Robin Williams, George Carlin etc etc have a song/bit they dont like to do anymore, but they WILL perform it once in a while because they know that it means a lot to the fans, and deep down they know that if it wasnt for that song/bit, they would have never gotten on "xyz" tour or "xyz" show, and gotten to where they are today.

I think its about power for Lucas. As Kevin Smith says in the Prince story on An Evening With Kevin Smith "Prince has been living in Prince world for quite some time"

I think Lucas has been living in "Lucas world for too long" I think he ultimately likes the powertrip he gets from having the say over the original release. And as I and many others have stated, releasing them in non anamorphic is a big middle finger to the fans who has been devoted to Star Wars and everything Lucas for decades.

This question remains: Will his ego spell doom for Lucasfilm, or will he finally respect the wishes of the fans and release the holy grail of movies in at least a decent anamorphic transfer. Or is this just all business talk and smokescreen covering up the fact that they are releasing the box set of all versions in 2007 ?

I know the statement said that there is no plans to release it now or in the future, but we all know plans change. It can change tomorrow, and they can just state that AT THE TIME of that email, there was no plans.

Over the years, Lucasfilm has always been secretive about their business, and I hope this is just another example. One thing I have learned about Lucasfilm (this not only applies to then, but to every business) is that its all about the money. Happy customers pay, disgruntled customers dont...its as easy as that...And I think Lucasfilm knows by now that they have a LOT of disgruntled fans on their hands, and Star Wars fans spread the word...they dont just sit back and pout.
post #520 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

This is pretty shortsighted. There must be someone at Lucasfilm who still remembers the mass exodus of the mid-80s. When NOBODY cared about Star Wars and the TV ventures failed and kids moved on to Transformers. This time, there isn't even another trilogy on the horizon, AND the company is actively alienating people. I'm willing to throw them my money until I'm an old man, but if the foundation of all of this, the original trilogy, isn't worth the same effort as Porky's 2, then why should I bother?
post #521 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

On the one hand, we are told that the original versions are included as "bonus features." But on the other hand, I have to ask, if these are just bonus features that don't warrant a better presentation, then why are these being reissued at all? If Lucas isn't out for the money, and the '04 versions are his preferred versions, then why not just keep the dvds that are on the shelves now and not bother with re-issuing them? The consumers purchasing this set are more likely than not, getting them because of the original versions. Otherwise they would just buy the ones out now.
post #522 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Anthony
I don't want to really get into guessing at George Lucas' mental state here. What he might be feeling or what he might not. That ends up just being tilting at windmills.


George's Vision = Gets TLC; a full restoration including digital cleaning for state-of-the-art dvd release.

Not George's Vision = Ported from Laser Discs and dumped into "bonus features".


I think Lucas' feelings about these things are fairly consequential, actually. ...To the extent they completely supercede what seems rational to his fans.

For the record, I wish you luck with your efforts. Just becaue I see the writing on the wall doesn't mean it says the same thing to you.
post #523 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

No, I get you Jack. I just have my fool's hope that I can help write OVER that specific Lucasfilm Graffiti

And Alex does have a good point, as well.
post #524 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Quote:
One more point: I think it's sad that we've grown so insistent upon the state-of-the-art in presentation that we've allowed it to kill our basic enjoyment of these films. I mean, we are talking a solid laser disc transfer here, not VHS (and I can still watch that, and I've seen stellar dvds on massive screens). Choice can be a killer, so try letting your lack of one in this instance liberate you to party like it's 1993 and enjoy these originals in rockin' SD, 480i... If you have to, go out and score yourself a sweet 36 inch, CRT set.

No, thanks. I have the lasers. I can watch those if I get the urge.
post #525 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Quote:
Unfortunately, "enhanced" caused some confusion in the previous thread. Someone suggested using the term, and someone else said, "If you want an enhanced version, buy the 2004 DVDs."
Oh, yes. Good point.
But by "enhanced", I was speaking just in an overall "general" sense re. all DVD releases -- not specifically Wars of the Star variety.
post #526 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Running through my Definitive Collection tonight on the SP4805, 100" screen....there's more than a little aliasing and nasty thick edge enhancement. Will they be carried over to the DVDs, I wonder?

They look great on a 27" Sony flatscreen analog CRT, though.

Popped in my non-anamorphic DVD of Spaceballs on the same setup. It actually looked pretty decent. If the new Star Wars discs can look as good, I'll seriously consider giving the heave-ho to the LDs.
post #527 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Quote:
I, for one, will continue emailing and calling to express my satisfaction ...

You mean dissatisfaction .... right?
post #528 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

A very good response indeed from RAH to LFL.

This is the revised paragraph from VideoBusiness Online

Quote:
The prints for the Sept. 12 DVDs of Star Wars: Episode IV—A New Hope, Star Wars: Episode V—The Empire Strikes Back and Star Wars: Episode VI—Return of the Jedi come from laserdiscs of the films released in the mid ’90s. This means that Episodes IV-V1 will be presented in widescreen but not anamorphic, thereby not making full use of modern TV screens
post #529 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Quote:
The problem is what lucasfilm is going to be offering up is the same master that we ALREADY HAVE. I can party like it's 1993 at any time RIGHT NOW.

Well, that certainly doesn't apply to everyone. Me, for one. I don't own the OOT, on any format. And I'm sure there's a goodly-sized pct. of HTFers who are in the same OOT-less boat. Right?

So a "1993-era party" might just be welcomed after all (if circa '93 PQ is all we're gonna get).

After all, it is hard to get blood from a turnip.*

* = Translated to a Star Wars analogy --- It's hard to get a good DVD transfer out of an OOT-hating GL.
post #530 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Let me ask, were the same masters used for every OT LD release or were two different one's used for the CAV 'Definitive Collection' and the 'Faces' discs?

And if so, which will be used for this dvd release? My memory tells me that the Faces LD's had better image quality than the Definitive, is this correct? It's been awhile since i've even laid eyes on any OT SW LD's.

If this has been covered I apologise, but to read this whole thread I would have to quit my job.
post #531 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Quote:
Oh, yes. Good point.
But by "enhanced", I was speaking just in an overall "general" sense re. all DVD releases -- not specifically Wars of the Star variety.

The poster may have been being deliberately obtuse. The search goes on for a description with which we can all agree.

Because I associate you with the Beav, how about we call anamorphically-enhanced discs the "swell on account of they look real keen on our widescreen sets" editions? Okay, okay . . . I know that's a stretch, but I can't think of any good Cleaver lingo right now. Jet Electrofied for 16:9?
post #532 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Quote:
I'm sure there's a goodly-sized pct. of HTFers who are in the same OOT-less boat. Right?

It might be interesting within this thread to know just HOW MANY of us here at HTF do already own the 1993 LD OOT of Star Wars that LFL is going to be re-pitching in September '06. I, for one, would be interested in seeing those stats (because I'm just that kind of stats-oriented type of nerd. ... George Foster hit 52 homers in 1977, btw, and was the NL MVP {same year that SW entered the universe}....just a stats bonus for ya. ).

I'll start.......

I Don't Own The OOT Of SW On Any Video Format.

post #533 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

The LD masters used for the 93 LD were also used for the 95 LD's and the VHS releases in 93/94 and 95 as well. Exact same masters, from what I've read.

If you own any of those copies, you already own a copy made from the masters they're selling us in September.
post #534 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

I don't own any of those, used to, but no more, so it seems this is the best shot i'll have for having these.
post #535 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

OK...thanks Robert Anthony. I wasn't fully aware of those statistics. (Guess I'd better brush up on my "OOT Master Stats". I'm as rusty as C3PO before he got dipped into the vat of that...whatchamacallit.)
post #536 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

I've got the LDs. I don't remember which are the Faces for sure, but I think they're the ones I've got. They are black with--duh--faces on the cover. I think it's a stormtrooper, Darth, and Yoda. Same art as the VHS releases of the time, I believe. I also have the widescreen VHS set that came in the long, flat box.
post #537 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Quote:
(Guess I'd better brush up on my "OOT Master Stats". I'm as rusty as C3PO before he got dipped into the vat of that...whatchamacallit.)

Oil.

I know Star Wars usually has made-up words, but it was played straight in this case.
post #538 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Quote:
Because I associate you with the Beav, how about we call anamorphically-enhanced discs the "swell on account of they look real keen on our widescreen sets" editions?



Not bad.

How about:

"The movie encoded on this DVD features greatly-improved picture quality over the miserable VHS version of this film you've had in the closet since 1988. All rights reserved."

Too wordy, ya think?
post #539 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Quote:
Oil.
Oh. I thought the stuff in the bath vat had a special name....."Camay For Droids" or something. Guess not.
post #540 of 3173

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

LOL, we're screwed and this is the stage where our collective mania causes us to laugh like madmen as we're led into hell.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DVD
Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › DVD › Star Wars discussion from The Bits...