Star Wars discussion from The Bits... - Page 17

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Great email RAH...as usual.

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To Robert Harris,

Robert,
Thanks for your email to Lynne at Lucasfilm. It made a lot of sense and I hope they will at least for now re-consider releasing the OT at least in anamorphic. At least we've been heard. Hey, I emailedLucasfilm and got a reply the same day. I don't think that always happens.

Thanks again for your support ,
ERICKA

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Anamorphic transfers have been made from movies a lot older than Star Wars with a much smaller audience, and they still manage to make a profit.

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Over at DVDTalk there has been a similar discussion re. this Star Wars debate, with some DVD collectors (still, in 2006) not understanding what the word "Anamorphic" means (in terms of DVD transfers).

And upon pondering the meaning of that unusual word for a moment....it seems to me that a much better term for DVD companies to use on their products, instead of "Anamorphic", would be "Enhanced" or "Enhanced For 16x9 TVs" -- which are, of course, terms that ARE utilized by many companies in addition to "Anamorphic".

But to the unaware consumer who might take the time to look up the word "Anamorphic" in the dictionary (after staring in bewilderment at a DVD package with that word all over it), it stands to reason (commonsense-wise) that after looking up the word, such a consumer might be totally turned off by its literal meaning.....

Which is: "Intentional distortion of an image".

http://webster.com/dictionary/anamorphic

Sounds awful for a DVD, huh? An "intentionally-distorted" video product?? Yuck!

Using "enhanced" instead of the somewhat-cryptic and misunderstood "Anamorphic" on DVD labels would enhance the understanding of an uninitiated purchaser.

Anyway....who here is up for footing the bill for an Intentionally-Distorted version of "A New Hope"? Anybody?

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Unfortunately, "enhanced" caused some confusion in the previous thread. Someone suggested using the term, and someone else said, "If you want an enhanced version, buy the 2004 DVDs."

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I checked the DVD Talk thread even though I'm not a member of that forum and it looks like the people there are every bit as angry as those of us here at the HTF. I can only wonder if Lucasfilm is seeing this as the potentially huge PR nightmare it could become. Word of this has been spreading across the internet like wildfire for well over a week now and it certainly isn't painting them in a good light. There are tons of people on many different forums saying that not only will they never buy these DVDs, but they're done with anything made by Lucasfilm for good. Maybe they don't care about losing a large number of their loyal customers, but I honestly don't think they can turn a blind eye to the potential damage that's being done by this whole fiasco.........especially when there's such an easy solution to the problem.

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Yeah, just give us a good anamorphic widescreen transfer from the best elements available at Fox,
that would be cool. And it wouldn't cost much at all to do.

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I would love to ask them why there are anamorphic segements from all three movies (ORIGINAL versions) in a couple of Star Wars specials that have aired and are even included on the SE DVDs!!!

Their response is total BS.

It would be very easy to create an anamorphic DVD from a THX transfer master tape (these do exist).

Where do these "clips" come from?!?!

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I want this shirt but with Robert Harris' name instead of Whedons.

Great letter Mr. Harris! It said everything that needed to be said and then some. We can only hope that they take your advice to heart.

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Mr. Harris,

I sincerely appreciate the intelligent and insightful dialogue you have brought to this thread, and your email to Lucasfilm was perfect.

I, for one, will continue emailing and calling to express my satisfaction - and encouraging everyone I know to do the same. And while I also agree that Lucasfilm is a business, I am not sure this is a 100% business decision. This is merely my personal opinion, but I believe Mr. Lucas considers the 2004 versions his "true vision" for the Original Trilogy. I understand and respect that completely. However, I also believe that he has grown frustrated by the fact that a myriad of core Star Wars fans disagree and actually prefer what he considers to be "inferior" versions. So, in a holiday sales season with no new offering from Lucasfilm since 1999, he permits the "Original" Original Trilogy to be released on DVD -- as substandard, non-anamorphic "extras" to the 2004 versions. In doing so, he can claim to be giving us (the fans) what we want. Yet it appears he is only throwing them out there with minimal effort in a display of his pure disdain for the Classic Original Trilogy. It as is if he just cannot comprehend that people actually want to own the original theatrical versions or that some of us actually prefer them. It's as if he prefers his updated cuts (which he obviously does) and he is completely shocked and even irritated that others don't see them as the masterpieces he does.

I do not want to deny him his right to tweak, edit or modify his films to his heart's content. Have at it. They're yours. However, as a fan and consumer, I am frustrated by his apparent dismissal of the original cuts and the fact that Lucasfilm is acting as if they are doing us a favor. He is not releasing them for the fans. He said so himself in the MTV interview. They are being released to "bate" us and he purports to question whether there is even much interest. It's as if to prove how "superior" his updated 2004 versions are, he will release the theatrical versions in an intentionally inferior presentation. Then, fans are in a tough predicament. If we buy them, then it is a win for him. He makes a ton more $$$. If we refuse to buy them due to the poor treatment they will receive, then he gets a self-fulfilling prediction: "See, we released the originals and no one bought them."

Lucasfilm is in the unique position that this decision may not totally be driven by profit. Sure, they need a release this winter. So, they slap some laserdisc transfers on disc and package them with the 2004 films. BUT, since George Lucas actually completely owns these films (unlike say a normal release from WB, Paramount, whomever), he has the complete latitude and authority to say that they CAN be released, but that NO work can be performed on them. They CAN be released, but in substandard quality. How many other directors have 100% complete control over their films? Spielberg and maybe a handful of others...maybe?

Personally, I just think Lucas is frustrated by the constant wish of fans to see films he considers "workprints." So, he gives us what we are getting in the fall.

Well, I have purchased multiple VHS copies. I have purchased multiple laserdisc versions. This applies to the originals and 1997 versions. I have even purchased the 2004 Special Edition DVDs.

To Mr. Lucas, I already own the 2004 editions and I have laserdiscs of the Originals. The discs being released this fall no longer appeal to me. I would have been first in line to purchase them, but now, I won't be. And I will be encouraging anyone who will listen to avoid them as well. I'm sorry. I know that boycotting them may only serve to reinforce the idea that the fans do not want the original films. Nothing could be further from the truth.

If you should choose to release these films anamorphically and with the respect they deserve, I would be thrilled to add them to my DVD library. I sincerely hope you reconsider.

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Well said, Zack!

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Wow, I never realized that my comparing Lucas' treatment of his fans to spousal abuse would generate such a negative response. If some of you couldn't take spousal abuse as simply a metaphor as to how Star Wars fans are treated by Lucasfilm, then I'm sorry. In my opinion, this pathological charade between Lucas and Star Wars fans (and I'm certainly one of them) has been going on since DVD began. Having said that, I can, and do, still respect everyone's ideas and efforts to change Lucas' mind and feel that Robert Harris has done a wonderfull job in trying to muster the troops. But after so much condescension from Lucasfilm, I just refuse to any longer financially support a company that treats it's loyal fanbase the way Lucasfilm has. Since Lucasfilm is just a business, the only thing it will understand is loss of the almighty dollar. They have lost mine.

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Mr. Harris,

Thank you so much for sending that e-mail to Lucasfilm and for your continued support of our position.

As many others here, what bothers me most about all this is the lack of respect for the fans on display here. If they had come out and said, "This is what you're getting; deal with it," then I think I may have been more accepting. I'd be disappointed, but at least something like that would be respectful. But for them to pass this off as the best they can do is, quite frankly, kind of insulting.

I've never cared for the most of the "enhancements" made to the Special Editions, but I've always respected Lucas's right to make them. But I agree with everyone else; if they're going to put this out at all, at least do it with the bare minimum audio/video quality.

As Mr. Harris and Mr. Hunt have said, it is inconceivable that there are no quality elements anywhere from which decent anamorphic transfers could be made.

Sorry I'm babbling; I guess I'm trying to coordinate the thoughts that I'm going to put into my e-mail to Lucasfilm. Again, it's really the lack of respect for the fans and the underestimation of our intelligence that bugs me the most.

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So they lost some money from you, they'll get plenty more elsewhere.

I'll give you an old article written by a fellow forumer.


"And the uproar that so many fanboys are reacting with is completely foreign to me. I guess I SHOULD understand it, because I know people have spent a LARGE amount of their free time on Star Wars, investing it into a set of kids movies. Many of you are speaking with a passion that a lot of people keep reserved for their spouses and their children. You're acting like jilted lovers or disrespected parents, disciplining a teen who deserves to have their allowance cut off and their car taken away when you make statements like "I've had enough, I'll never spend a dime more." As if you're PUNISHING Star Wars. As if Star Wars is going to spend some time in it's room thinking about what it's done.

For all the words you wrote, all you essentially did is write one giant article that repeated the phrase "Lucas Raped my Childhood." Dress it up all you want, but that's what it was. Pouting. And your "call to arms" just sounds petty. You've had many years to deal with it. You've had your entire adult life to take Star Wars for what it is, and you have nobody but yourself to blame for overinflating it's importance past your childhood. And for as much as you seem to have invested into the movies, emotionally, for you to stomp your foot and pout because Lucas won't do what you want and pretty much declare you've given up on Star Wars, I dunno, that says something. It's not as if he's taking your childhood away. It's still there. You can still see it. you just wont be able to have it on an official DVD. Is that such a huge injustice to warrant your tantrum? Really? To demand a REFUND? A refund on what? Your nostalgic memories of your childhood? Don't you see how immensely out-of-whack that reaction is?"

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Amidst this dismaying muddle of PR deceptions, I think Mr. Harris has eloquently come up with the single best chance of righting this situation. This will, ultimately, be a 20th Century Fox release. They have a crackerjack restoration unit for home video, which has produced excellent releases of films much older and in probably far worse shape than the original 'Star Wars' trilogy ('Journey to the Center of the Earth,' 'The Agony and the Ecstacy,' 'The Poseidon Adventure,' and the list goes on). They have, for quite some time now, consistently exhibited high standards when it comes to ALL their DVD releases. Perhaps they and Lucasfilm could come to an agreement to pool their resources and do this properly within the schedule allowed.

Mr. Harris also voiced what the precise point of this whole argument is...it's not about getting these films in "perfect condition." The new versions accomplish that. For these, printed-in dirt, matte-lines, and Dolby 2.0 don't faze me. It's about seeing all of it in the same standard of quality that EVERY OTHER FILM ON DVD exhibits in 2006.

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We don't need this thread to go down that path of discussion because that's what got the other thread derailed and closed down. Let's try to stay on topic..........you know, about the pathetic, second-rate low quality DVDs Lucasfilm is releasing in Septemeber.

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So-called low quality that only obsessed videophiles notice, not the vast majority of the DVD buying population. Isn't that the quality of SW we grew up with? They didn't play THAT long at the movie theaters. What most of us grew up with was pan and scan video tape SW movies. Any of us around 30 now, that is.

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Does everyone see what this says? It says the Laserdisc masters were the best source for providing the OT as a bonus material. Now, that can be taken a few different ways, but to me it means they looked at other options and decided on the LD masters for reasons unknown to us. I can guess that those reasons were primarily ease and cost (hey, the transfer's done already), and since they consider them bonus material only and not a bonafide film release, the LD masters passed the "good enough" test.

If I'm right, this pretty much confirms they have the capability to release a decent anamorphic transfer of these films Sept 12th, or even today, if they wanted to. As many others here have already stated.

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You obviously don't have a problem with the pending non-anamorphic DVD release of the Star Wars original trilogy. And that's fine. But having said that, why are you posting in this thread? It's not for you. No offense, but be honest with yourself: do you have something to add to the discussion, or are you just trying to start a flame war? After all, this is a forum for HT enthusiasts, people who love movies and spend a good deal of money to replicate the theater experience in their own homes. It only makes sense we'd be upset that three classic films aren't getting quality releases.

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Fellow forumer my ass. That was written by Robert Anthony right here at the HTF about a completely separate issue. I doubt if he'll appreciate your trying to use his words against an effort he has largely spearheaded.

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It's not just videophiles that can tell the difference between a low-quality transfer and a good one, but if you want to keep telling yourself that go right ahead.

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If you notice that I mentioned it was written by a fellow forumer, not me. Robert Anthony aka FatBoy Roberts. Is he NOT a fellow forumer?

I am just trying to stifle some of the egos in here, many of you think you are better than everyone else because you spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on high end video equipment and watch every tiny millimeter for imperfections on the screens. Fact is, most of the public doesn't care. Most are not videophiles or post on message forums. I'm saying Lucasfilm are not going to do anything just because a small percentage of the DVD buying population complains. There will always be that small percentage that complains NO matter what they do.

Of course many of you try and stifle anyone in here that doesn't agree with you, or go with the flow.

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Yeah, you're right. I was seeing that as "former forumer."

They've responded. That's more than they usually do. If you don't want to help, why are you here? It won't hurt you--you'll get your release no matter what.

I'll stop, because I know Ron isn't going to like this.

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Sev, I respectfully must say that you're missing the point of this discussion. Imperfections ARE exactly what most of us want to see here...the imperfections that where inherent in these films before they were all digitally-erased. Some of us want to compare and contrast with the revised versions, to marvel at just how far technology has come, while others will look at the old editions and marvel at how the strength of their telling overcomes the limitations of their technology. But those opportunities will be rendered moot if these two differing versions of the films are not even presented in the same relative format.

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So it's "ego" that is causing all of these people to be in agreement that non-anamorphically enhanced transfers are unacceptable in the year 2006? You do realize that you're in the HOME THEATER FORUM, right? This isn't the DVD aisle at Wal-Mart, it's a site where people come to discuss audio and video. If you can't accept that and add anything constructive to the discussion, why are you posting on this forum in the first place?

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Now I'm certain you're nothing but a troll. I'm not aware of anyone here who thinks he/she is "better" than others because of their HT equipment.


If you don't like this thread, then don't read it. Nobody likes a thread crapper.

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Well, here's the e-mail that I sent to Lucasfilm. I think I may have gone a little overboard, and there are a couple of grammatical mistakes, but it's done.

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Dear Sirs or Ma'ams:

First, I wanted to express my appreciation of Mr. Lucas's willingness to allow the original versions of the Star Wars trilogy to be released on DVD. This shows that he understands that there are many who do want them.

However, I also have to make you aware of my extreme disappointment that the 1993 transfers made for the laserdiscs are to be used as the source for the DVDs. I realize that Mr. Lucas does not prefer these versions of the films, and I respect that, and again, I am glad that he is allowing them to be released at all. But surely somewhere, film elements of the original versions exist that could be used to make decent anamorphic transfers of the films for DVD.

This is really all most of us are asking. No extensive restoration or cleanup, no frame-by-frame checking. We would just like a good anamorphic transfer from a quality print or interpositive. I, for one, refuse to believe that they have all been disposed of.

I am sure that you are aware of this (link was included) thread at the Home Theater Forum. In it, you will find comments from some dedicated but disappointed Star Wars fans whom you claim this release is for. The thread also contains comments from Robert Harris, the man who led the restoration effort on Lawrence of Arabia, Spartacus, My Fair Lady, and other classic films. Even he is saying that a full restoration may not be necessary to properly present the original versions of these films on DVD.

I should add that I do not own a widescreen TV and probably won't for some time now. That's not the point. It just saddens me that Lucasfilm is not willing to present these classic films in better quality than 13-year-old laserdisc transfers. If the sales for these DVDs are disappointing, it will not be because people didn't want the original versions. It will be because the company who owns the films was not able to provide better quality than most bootleggers.

Lucasfilm has always stood for the best in quality with their products. Please don't let this release fly in the face of that.

Finally, a personal note to Mr. Lucas, although I realize that it's unlikely that he will see this. However, if he does, I'd like him to understand where we are coming from:

Mr. Lucas,

I have been one of your number one fans for most of my life. You were one of the people who taught me how to use my imagination, and you were one of the reasons that I decided to pursue the career in filmmaking that I am currently seeking. For these things, I will always be grateful, and I will always respect you. I also respect your decision to alter your films to better reflect your vision for them, and to be on record as prefering those versions.

It can't have escaped your attention, though, that many of your fans have been very disappointed by some of your decisions over the past few years. I'm sure much of this will be chalked up to fanboy whining, in some cases deservedly so.

However, I think there is something to be said for those of us who want our favorite films to be preserved in the best way possible. You have been an outspoken advocate for film preservation, and I urge you to apply that to your own films. The films that comprise the original Star Wars trilogy are three of the most popular, financially successful, and significant films in the history of motion pictures. I (and many, many, many others, I assure you) feel that they should be preserved and made available to the public in a form as close to their original versions as possible alongside your preferred, enhanced versions.

Mr. Lucas, I know you care about your fanbase, because it was us who put you in the position that you are in today. I truly appreciate your willingness to offer us the films that we grew up loving in their original form. But offering them with such substandard quality, quite frankly, almost seems like a slap in the face, and I know that's not how you want it to look.

Once again, all we want is an anamorphic transfer from decent film elements. If you don't want us to have that, then please just tell us so. Please show us at least that much respect.

Please consider this and all will be mended,

Bryan Tuck
Lifelong Star Wars fan

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Wanting 16x9 enhancement does not make one a videophile. Videophiles nitpick over 1% overscan, fret over DVD players that don't score over 90 on the Secrets deinterlacing tests, argue about the effectiveness of wobulation, etc.

When the majority of non-videophiles get widescreen sets--and don't fool yourself the day is quickly coming based on current and recent sales of such sets--they are going to be sorely disappointed with a non-anamorphic transfers of these films. Especially those who own TV sets or DVD players (or both) who do not scale non-anamorphic discs properly. Enjoy those four black bars around the image, or the wide stretched picture, or the poor quality scaling.

In fact, this whole sentence of yours: makes no sense to me. I haven't seen anyone here bragging about their equipment or analyzing millimeters of imperfections. We just want anamorphic enhancement. That's not nitpicking. For every major studio and most smaller studios it is a standard. THX and Lucasfilm have long been ahead of the curve. We're just asking them to adhere to the minimum standards, something they usually surpass with flying colors.

And it was nice of you to anoint yourself "Ego Cooler of HTF".

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The argument I made in that earlier post really does not apply to this one, as one is about how to best PUNISH Lucasfilm as if it were a sentient entity in a personal relationship with you, and the other is asking the company to change a business decision to best suit the customers it is marketing this release to.

I'm not going to buy this set. Like Ricardo said, I'm very disappointed, and I'm not spending money on this release. But I can still try to get people to let Lucasfilm know what a bad decision this is. And my decision to try and get the word out and get the ball rolling is not borne out of ego or a need to feel important in a messageboard setting. That decision is made out of a real want to see a product up to Lucasfilm's standards released to us this fall so that I may buy it. I WANT to buy it. I wish I could. But it's a 13 year old master made for a dead format. When people wanted Star Wars on DVD, I dont' think they expected that. Certainly not at this juncture in the format's lifespan. I was perfectly fine with never expecting the films on DVD. To find out they were coming--and then to find out Lucasfilm was going to release them to the format in a manner already at least a good 4 years behind the industry norm? And then MARKET THE RELEASE as hard as they're doing towards us?

I'm not advocating people mail back boxes of toys. That won't send any sort of message that anyone's going to want to respond to. I'm not advocating people go on the warpath, and neither is Mr. Harris. those acts are counterproductive. I just want people to let Lucasfilm know how easy it would be to placate their intended audience for this release, and how much more beneficial it'd be to do that--and also how it would help Lucasfilm maintain it's standing at the forefront of DVD presentation.

Keep in mind--the very first non-anamorphic extra on a Star Wars DVD, ever--is a Star Wars movie. That doesn't seem right. The trailers for the videogames are anamorphically encoded. The original movies aren't? The transfer can't be done? How is that a good reflection of your company's quality control?

There's a way that this can work out that makes it all smiles all around for EVERYONE involved, and I just want them to try that so that I can have something cool to buy this Fall/Winter. That's it. I don't want to "punish" lucasfilm or bend them to my will or any of the things you're quoting me on in a post over 3 years ago from a completely different discussion. And I don't think a lot of people in here do, either.

We just want a new master for these films, and new discs made from that master, so that we can enjoy a new transfer (not even a sparkling pristine dirt and grime cleaned transfer, just a good, solid, new transfer) in anamorphic on these DVD's that are being marketed almost SOLELY towards us.

Hopefully that settles it, and the good work that Bill, Ron, and of course Robert Harris have gotten done because of and in this thread, won't be discarded now because of some messageboard back-and-forth. Let's squash all that and continue to move forward.

We've got their attention. And we got it really quickly, too. They're watching. They're reading. Let's keep making crystal clear sense to them. At some point it's going to be harder to stay their course and keep following this path than it is to do the right thing and make their customers happy. I hope.