Star Wars discussion from The Bits... - Page 13

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

I remember this "sweetener" being mentioned in an ABC documentary. And at the time, it would have made sense for Fox, since Lucas could have chosen to go with his franchise elsewhere.

My sincere apologies to this forum for the multiple posting that appeared last night. Ron Epstein just informed me that this was, indeed, due to a technical error on the server/this site, and has removed the duplicate messages. Many thanx, I appreciate it.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

First, thank you Robert and Ron for an educational, supportive, and appropropriate thread. For me it is pretty simple. There is no incentive to buy a non-anamorphic transfer. If they don't get it right I can wait for the HD release and see if its done right then.

I saw the first of the SEs and was very turned off by the gee-whiz, look what we can do, added effects. The additional scenes did nothing for me, other than slow down the pacing I so enjoyed. I did not go see the next two in the theaters, and it is because of that I have yet to buy the SE release of the OT... that's just my position.

The good thing about the original trilogy is that I saw it so many times at a great time in my life. It created a perfect transfer, so to speak, in my head. Please clean up the original releases and give it the 6 track soundtrack. That would be something truly special to re-experience.

Lucasfilms can do what they feel is in their best interest... I'll still hold out for the proper release.

Thanks,

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

I hope this thread can live up to the high standards of conduct I view the HTF with. I know for many this is one of the most important dvd sets in the collection, so tempers can flare. If anyone at LucasFilm is still reading this far in, I would like to state that a non-animorphic release will lose 2 sales from me (one from myself and my brother.)
Thank you for reading.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

It was mentioned above about the ILM book "Into the Digital Realm" and its pages on the 1997 restoration, although not absolutely a definitive account, the information contained within mentions that the YCM masters still exist for the original films (in fact these were used to create certain sections of negative for the restoration) and it looks as if part of the IP's used for the 1993 transfer may indeed have been cut back into create part of the restoration negative.

The bottom line is that although the IP's may not exist in complete form, the YCM's do - which is almost as good as the O-neg and pefect for creating preservation and transfer materials should they be needed.

I think a scouring of the Lucasfilm archives for elements as alluded to in the press release, consisted of a 10 minute glance, including several minutes of chatting and coffee drinking!

M

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Maybe..... Note that the REVISED version of "Star Wars" shows a Lucasfilm copyright, but we've not yet seen the copyright notice on the ORIGINAL version. (All assignments of copyright are registered with the registrar of copyrights in DC, so anyone with the time or some cash could investigate this.)

It is true that Fox's ownership of "Star Wars" was a VERY sore point with Lucasfilm, and this was a major point of negotiation in the mid-late 1990s. Because Fox owned "Star Wars", Lucasfilm received a relatively modest share of revenues from that film (compared to its take on "Empire" and "Jedi").

If Fox did return copyright in "Star Wars" to LFL, it is likely that Fox retained distribution rights to the film in perpetuity.

Which means that any decision about the original trilogy must be decided jointly. And that includes the always-touchy issue of which party would pay for any restoration project. And then which division of Fox (TV, home entertainment, etc) would pay Fox's share.

I'll bet politics are a very significant issue here.

(I was acquisitions VP at CBS/Fox until it was folded into Fox in 1997)

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Like a huge number of other Star Wars fans, I was absolutely thrilled when I heard that Lucasfilm was
going to release the Star Wars trilogy in it's original theatrical version. There was some early speculation
that this might be just the laserdisc transfer all over again thrown onto DVD. At the time I argued against
the likelihood of such a thing, as I didn't think that Lucasfilm would ever release such a shoddy
transfer of the great Star Wars trilogy. But then the news came out that they were indeed planning
on releasing the same transfer used on the laserdisc, and a non-anamorphic transfer on top of that.
It was hard to believe that Lucasfilm would stoop to such a low thing, that they would actually do
something like that to Star Wars and to the Star Wars fans, but it's obviously true.

But Lucasfilm has a golden opportunity right now to fully correct this before it ever happens. As has
been pointed out, the film prints that were fully restored in preparation for the 1997 SE theatrical
release, that Lucas no doubt has safely stored in one place or another, not to mention the several
fine prints that are in various archives and private hands, could easily be used by a restoration expert
like Mr. Harris to restore a gorgeous master film print that could then be scanned in at 4k resolution.
Once this was done, it would be a simple matter to take a full 480p resolution version from that
for use in the DVD set. And the picture would be fantastic looking! This permanent 4k HD master would
then put Lucasfilm in a position to release a dual-layer Blu-Ray version at no further expense when
dual-layer BD disks become available (imagine what kind of picture you could get with 50 gigs of
storage space and the super high video bit-rates that Blu-Ray supports).

It's simply unacceptable to release the Star Wars trilogy from an old laserdisc transfer. A new anamorphic
transfer from the very best set of master prints that can be found, no matter what sources need to
be used, and restored is the only proper way to do this. To do otherwise would be extremely and
permanently damaging to Lucasfilm's reputation as a film studio that stands for excellence in picture
and sound quality. We don't want changes to the special effects, or the content of the scenes,
or what characters say. We just want the highest quality transfer from a clean set of master prints
that can possibly be done. With correct black levels, color saturation, color temperature settings,
cleaning up of matte lines, removal of print scratches, etc.

I would urge Lucasfilm to please do the right thing and have a master restorer/archivist like Mr. Harris
handle the restoration and preparation of the 4k HD master that the great Star Wars trilogy deserves.
You couldn't possibly get anyone better to do the work and Mr. Harris himself has said that such an effort
would not be expensive. And I, and many other Star Wars fans, would not mind waiting at all to
see a superb transfer of Star Wars onto DVD. A release just before Christmas could be scheduled, this
would make this new Star Wars set *the* movie set to buy as Christmas gifts for Star Wars fans
and movie fans in general. And Lucasfilm could proudly proclaim in their ads and on the DVD boxes
that they had one of the top experts in the film industry handle the restoration to give the best
picture possible. The much higher number of sales of a Star Wars DVD set that has great picture quality
would make the cost of restoration seem like nothing by comparison. The restoration would not cost
Lucasfilm money, it would make them far *more* money if fans know in advance that what they
are getting is going to be really worth it. The Star Wars DVD sets will fly off the shelves if a truly
high quality transfer from restored master film prints is done.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

After Ron closed the last thread I thought this wasn't going to be discussed anymore and I haven't check the forums in a few days. Made it up to page five of this thread and had to take a break.

One thing I'm curious about, does anyone think that the 2004 editions (you know the ones that are the supposedly main features of this release) will be tweaked at all (correct lightsaber colors, etc.) or do you think that will just be saved for the assumed box set next year?

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Someone pointed out the specs (may have) changed. But I've given up hope on anything good coming out of this release.

Still, it would be a way to maybe sucker me into buying it if the 2004 editions end up being what they should have been in the first place.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Well there's one major filmed scene that wasn't put in the revised special editions - The Emperor's disolving of the senate in part IV, thus ensuring continuity and a part for him in all 6 film's...I would be hugely surprised if this wasn't in the uber editions next year, as well as the additional tweaks mentioned above, although given that they've had two go's now to sort out these minor gaffes I think their QC guy's need more training!

M

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

for what it's worth: George first didn't want to release any SW to DVD. He relented.

I would rather pay more for a decent release of the OOT on DVD then less for a sub-standard one. I do not want to buy the OOT if there is going to be a HD version in the future. I already own it on LD in two versions (CLV faces and CAV Definitive, not to mention the '97 SEs on LD).

I think it's no longer a discussion of SW as it is about preserving history, even if it is a history GL wasn't happy with when he first made it.

Do what your fans want, George. We are willing to pay for a good picture. We want our childhood memories preserved. We will always have the new versions.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

UPDATE 5/23


I just want to let you folks know the newest developments
as of today....

One of the magazines I have been talking to has actually
contacted LucasFilm.

It has been absolutely confirmed that these are going to be
the original non-anamorphic transfers used for the 1993 laserdisc
release.

I wanted to post this for anyone out there that is still posting
on other forums that none of the information we have been reporting
to all of you is valid.

There has been a further statement made from LucasFilm as
to the reasons for what they are doing, but out of fairness to
the upcoming article that will be written, I am not going to talk
about this right now. In a few days there will be a story posted
and linked here that all of you are welcome to read. It will explain
the situation in more detail.

In the meantime, I urge all of you to continue mailing, emailing
and phoning your concerns to LucasFilm. Apparantly they are
willing to talk to fans and perhaps some of you may be able to
post a few comments that I am unable to discuss at this time.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Thanks for the update, Ron. I am certainly very interested in reading the article and learning more about what prompted the decision to use the non-anamorphic transfers used for the 1993 laserdisc release. I certainly hope the reasons are good ones, but kinda doubt they're going to be satisfactory to me at this point.

You know that indirectly brings up something that I've been thinking about lately. If Lucasfilm said that they were honestly using this release to gauge fan interest in the OOT and fund a proper restoration should sales bear out that there is indeed the interest I expect, then I would have much less of a problem with this release than I do currently.

Ultimately, I am willing to donate money to a future restoration effort because that is how much I want to see justice done to these films. I know we could all argue over whether we should have to do this; but if given the choice between fan-funding or no restoration at all, I'd sleep better at night knowing a restoration is coming, even if I had to help finance it, than none at all.


I don't want to take this thread off track, but I thought I was pretty up with Star Wars goings-on, where was it said, officially that this scene was filmed? Also, was the oft-rumored Bail Organa on Alderaan scene filmed?

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Ron, as far as I can tell, you're the one who brought the magazines in on this. If it ends up making a difference as far as the transfer goes, you'll have done an incredible job. Even if nothing changes, at least people will now have a chance to know in advance what the release entails.


Under those circumstances, I would definitely be more likely to pick up a copy.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Supposedly, further changes to the SW films, like the Emperor dissolving the Senate, Jimmy Smits in ANH and CG Yoda to replace the puppet in TPM (as seen in disc 2 of ROTS) will be for the deluxe 30th anneversary Archival Edition in 2007.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Richard,

Thanks. I'm aware of the rumors, just wondering if I missed an official announcement of any of these scenes being filmed, since I did not renew my Hyperspace membership after ROTS.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Those scenes have been rumored for a while now, but I don't know if there's any truth to them or not.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Has anyone been able to get any info from LucasFilm regarding Ron's update above? I have emailed them again (no response yet) and it's a long distance phone call for me. Can you give us some kind of hint Ron? I'm going mental

BTW thanks for everything you've done so far. Your efforts are greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Dave

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Mr. Harris,

I have gone back and re-read all your posts, and I now have a much better understanding of your comment above. Forgive me for using restoration as a synonym for reconstruction.

Ultimately, however, the main point I was attemping to make earlier still holds true. That being, if as you say, "this specific release is meant in some odd way to be a true "measure of interest" of those who continue to request the original films", I would prefer to know that upfront because it totally changes my outlook on this release. To know that I can potentially 'make a difference' and contribute to a reconstruction or restoration of the OOT makes me feel as though my money is more well spent.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Right, it's long been reported that the restoration of the master prints in preparation for the 1997 SE release
in theaters restored them to pristine condition. So there doesn't even need to be a restoration really,
because those restored prints are now obviously stored away safely. We just need a great transfer from
those prints. But in any case, there are other prints out there that definitely exist, as pointed out by
digitalbits. So no matter how you slice it, Lucasfilm can have the prints restored if need be for
a quality transfer. All they have to do is pick up the phone and make it happen. There's no excuse
whatsoever for them not to do that.

By the way, since you're here Mr. Harris, I wanted to say what a great job you and your team did on
Lawrence of Arabia. I have the superbit version and it looks fantastic, well done!

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

I'm hoping that their reason for rehashing the 93 LD->DVD is because of some major restoration project for the future and they wanted to get SOMETHING out right now.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

UPDATE 5/23


Well, far faster than I anticipated happening, the story has been
published on the Video Business Magazine website.

Click Here To Read Story

This should give you a good idea of the uphill fight we are facing.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Ron,

Once again, thanks. Well, there certainly wasn't a lot of meat to that story. No details, other than the standard party line that these are bonus materials. Are they really so out of touch with their fan base that they thought that giving these films this kind of treatment "would be a way to give the fans something that is fun"? Amazing.

Can you elaborate further on what was meant by "...Lucasfilm is in the process of directly contacting its upset fan base in an attempt to smooth things over"? What could they possible say at this point that would put any salve on this?

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

I never would've suspected that kind of confusion from Video Business Magazine. To quote C-3PO, "We're doomed".

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

To quote RAH, "Nothing more than marketing speak." I'm more interested in how Lucasfilm plans on contacting and discussing this issue with its fanbase. Stay tuned, we shall see.

Chris

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Interesting indeed

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Well, let me put it this way. IF George Lucas himself were to come out and publicly give his
word of honor that this release in September of the original trilogy theatrical versions is to allow
the full funding of a complete restoration, recomposite, whatever of the theatrical versions
of the original trilogy from a magnificent pristine condition set of master film prints that will look
absolutely incredible, then I can go with that.

I'm talking a full frame-by-frame job, no scratches, no dirt, no matte lines, inky black levels, great shadow
detail, accurate color saturation, accurate color temperature, etc. with an expert like Mr. Harris
handling the whole thing.

And no vague press releases, with wording that can mean different things. I want to see a clearly stated
absolute guarantee from George himself that he will personally see to it that we get such a release
on DVD no later than December of 2007 (we can worry about HD after that).

If he will do that, then I'll go out and buy the Sept. 12th DVD set, non-anamorphic and all, no problem!

I'd be *more than happy* to help make millions more for Lucasfilm just so we can have the non-se original
Star Wars trilogy on DVD to the highest standards that are technically possible with the latest
methods that gentlemen such as Mr. Harris have at their disposal, and with them given enough time
to do the job to the very best of their considerable ability (meaning the work should be starting very soon,
not in the middle of 2007).

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

(Robert, Thanks for your reply. I am posting this in the hopes Lucasfilm will read it.)


Dear Robert,
Your statement on thedigitalbits that the SW Original
Trilogy CAN be beautifully restored brought a tear to
my eye. At the age of 16, I had the fortune of being
present at the first 70MM cast and crew screening of
Empire Strikes Back at the Northpoint Theater in San
Francisco in April, 1980. I remember Lucas and Gary
Kurtz walking down the aisle, and addressing the
audience. Gary said that we were about to see the
first print of ESB in 70mm, the print had just come
out of the lab that morning, and warned us that the
colors might not be perfect. I remember being totally
blown away by what I saw, the image so big and so
sharp and clean. This is how I want to re-experience
the original Star Wars films in my home. Nine years
later, I got to see your restoration of Lawrence of
Arabia in 70MM at the same theater and again was blown
away by how beautiful the image was (and how I
couldn't look at that crappy dirt and scratch laden
pan and scan laserdisc afterwards!)This is how I want
to remember and re-experience these films, and this is
how they should be preserved. The people making
statements that we should be "grateful" for Lucas
"giving us" these 1993 transfers have no idea what
they are truly missing.

As far as I'm concerned, and I'm no film expert, if
Disney can take a 1942 NITRATE film like Bambi and
produce the dvd that they did, with nary a dirt or
scratch on that transfer, than so can Lucasfilm with
the SW OT.

I hope to God that Lucasfilm has read your comments,
will act on them, and will hire you to restore the OT
to its true original brilliance with all dirt and
scratches removed for DVD and all future HD formats
There is nothing I would want more! Bill Hunt said it
best, "It should be done, it CAN be done!"


THANK YOU AGAIN ROBERT FOR SAYING WHAT NEEDED TO BE
SAID!!
KEEP UP THE AWESOME WORK!

MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU,
ERIC

P.S. IN CASE LUCASFILM IS READING THIS, I WILL NOT BUY DVD'S OF THOSE 1993 TRANSFERS!

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

I can wait to hear more about this statement:

"Aware of the uproar, Lucasfilm is in the process of directly contacting its upset fan base in an attempt to smooth things over"

I sure hope they will. I hope they realize that the only way to make fans happy is to AT THE VERY LEAST releasing OOT in anamorphic widescreen.

Im glad this ball is rolling and making news allready

EDIT: I actually hate to be labeled "fanboy" about this issue, but releasing in letterbox in 2006 just isnt good enough