Star Wars discussion from The Bits... - Page 11

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Good god why don’t we all vote on this, from sound track to image transfer to art work and presentation of extras etc.

LOL

I have all ready made my mind up what I would vote on, so please someone start a voting pole, as this is going to drive me around the bend!

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

I would be tempted to say that it beggars imagination that Mr. Lucas would have destroyed all of the copies of the films-as-they-did-exist which he could lay hands upon, including the colour-separation elements he is reputed to have had made [although I understand that such things sometimes are found to be unusable] and the interpositive used for the CBS-FOX and THX "definitive" video transfers, but rash and even megalomaniacal actions seem to be very common both in business and the arts.

In truth, I think that his problem is one of perspective. He fails to realise that it was not the films which he wished he had made that won Academy Awards and the loyalty of viewers who returned to see them again and again, in their original releases, in re-release, in television showings, and on video : it was the films he did actually make which did those things. It is the films he did actually make which ought to be presented in the best possible way, even if he does think of the simply as "bonus material", so that people can revisit or understand that phenomenon.

In any case, since film elements do exist in private hands, I imagine that someone somewhere would be willing to turn such elements over, with appropriate guarantees of their being returned intact, to a third party, to perform a video transfer which could then be used by LucasFilms to prepare a video release.

Incidentally, as far as "cigarette burns"/cue dots go, I think they are not exclusinve to release prints. I have the LaserDisc of the 1998 Wings of Honneamise theatrical re-release [a complicated story is behind that], which happens to be taken from the same film element used for the Japanese DVD, and I'm pretty certain that is not a release print — but it has the dots. I would guess the element is a special internegative, lower contrast than those used for preparing release prints [suggesting that the marks are on the edited interpositive], but I don't know.

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It looks like the originals are being offered in letterbox only on the fool screen editions.

Amazon.com

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Yeah these films where aimed at children, not adults etc, that is some kids film that made a bucket full of money! And some of that is mine LOL, so come George’ please give us the film in a pristine quality looking dazzling wowing explosive jaw dropping knock your soaks off transfer.

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Catch you later guys, I’m going of to a galaxy far, far away and get my head down and dream of Star Wars 16:9 transfers sound etc.

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You don't have to worry about Lucas destroying prints. From looking at the online UCLA archive listings, their 1977 prints have turned green.

Also, if you want some examples of 16x9-ized DVD's from 4x3 LBX sources... check out the MGM DVD for The Apartment. Ugh. I've always suspected the Episode I DVD was enlarged, too.

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Aaron took me to task for calling these laser ports, and I think he's right. I've read all of this thread and all or most of the previous one, but I don't recall (and I'm willing to own up to a poor memory if this is wrong) a lot of discussion about the lack of the Episode IV - A New Hope title. Doesn't that suggest these will NOT be direct ports of the laser, or is the thinking that title was digitally erased for the Empire of Dreams doc and that alteration will be appended to the lasers? If it's not the lasers, and thus upconverting isn't the issue, are there still good reasons why it won't be anamorphic?

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The Episode IV subtitle is not the only thing different about the crawl. Even though the words are the same, they are spaced differently on the original. For example, DEATH STAR appears on the same line in the '77 version, not
DEATH
STAR
as it is on the re-release version.

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Also isn't the animation on the main title noticably jerkier on the re-release version?

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The Interpositives that were used in '93 were mentioned earlier. If they are still around, would they be in any worse shape than any other "new" film from 1993?

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Probably not, at best they'd probably look as good as Poseiden Adventure does.

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It was my understanding, based on articles at the time, that the 1993 interpositives were used to "fill in" for sections of the o-neg that had deteriorated more than expected in the time since the last prints were made. I'm not sure how this would have been done, since as far as I know you can't splice negative and interpositive together and print them. Either they would have had to print a new interpositive from the o-neg and splice into that (meaning the o-neg could still be intact after all) or they used the interpostives to creat dupe negative to be spliced into the o-neg (more likely). Maybe they spliced up the interpositives and only made dupe neg from certain sections. Anyway, the end result (that we're supposed to believe at least) is that both the original negative and the best exisiting interpositives were cut up and reassembled as the 1997 Special Edition, which is the only version that exists on film today. The same articles also mentioned something about using alternate takes to replace some shots, so even shots that LOOK the same may not actually be the same shot as the original. That's kind of weird to me for some reason and I try not to think about that when I watch the SE's.

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I was lucky enough to see Lawrence in 70mm at the Senator theater here in Baltimore. Sadly, my father was not able to go with me. It was still a fantastic movie experience and nothing has rivaled it.

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Just like other long time Star Wars fans, I felt excited when the announcement of the O.U.T. on DVD was made. But soon after became disappointed after hearing about the source of the transfers and the lack of anamorphic enhancement. Since I already own the 2004 set, the 1993 Definitive Collection LDs and three different VHS sets, I see no reason to purchase these upcoming releases.

On another note, I think some people might be confusing ‘Restoring’ and ‘Altering’ as being the same thing. An alteration would be more in line to what we saw in the 2004 SE’s. The addition and subtraction of scenes, enhancing/addition of special effects and changing dialog/music are alterations. The only thing that restoration (e.g. removing dust particles, scratches, and correcting color) does to a film, is bring it back to its original presentation (before it went through a projector for the 100th time). I think LFL managed to do this, to a certain degree, with the 1993 Definitive Collection. I doubt Mr. Lucas would ever theatrically release his films in a washed out* (due to fading), unbalanced color and scratched state, even for so called “work prints”. If he wouldn't do that to theatrical presentations, then why should DVD be any different? Anyway, is a restoration, using 2006 technology, of the original unaltered trilogy [in anamorphic widescreen] too much to ask for? After many of us purchasing various incarnations of the original trilogy, I think not.

Just my 2 cents.




* Yes, I know the films do not look washed out. Relaxe, it's just an example.

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Well if the interpositive was junked then I guess it's a lose-lose scenario as we wouldn't be having this arguement if they just did a new digital transfer from the same element.

Then again, they did find a print (who knows what format though) with the original crawl for Empire of Dreams so who knows.

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I don't know how you managed to make that interpretation from Amazon's listing. To me it says that both the Widescreen and Full screen editions will have the letterbox version of the orginal theatrical presentation on disc 2.

Which makes perfect sense if Lucas is looking for the least expensive way to put this out. Why author two separate DVDs when you can use the same "bonus" disc for both versions?

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I have to say that I was extremely excited to hear that the original theatrical versions of Star Wars will finally be released on DVD. Thousands of Star Wars fans have been waiting for this since the beginning of the DVD format. After hearing that the movies will be non-anamorphic widescreen, I am very dissapointed.

I have NOT purchased any of the previous Star Wars trilogy DVDs released thus far, and will NOT buy a non-anamorphic widescreen release of the original theatrical versions (even as a "bonus" feature).

Please push back the release date as long as necessary and give these films the treatment they deserve!


-Greg Egan

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I think James meant the following:

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I just had a thought. Instead of wasting time with non anamorphic transfers for the whole films, why don't they just do anamorphic upconversions of the original shots (or new transfers from regraded release prints if it comes down to that) and then splice them into the LDI transfers in place of the SE shots? Then add a disclaimer at the beginning saying that this transfer was taken from a variety of sources including some lower quality copies and that great pains have gone into creating a deffinitive release for dvd.

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I don't currently buy any DVDs that are not enhanced for 16x9 widescreen, so this will be no exception. It is completely disgraceful how Lucasfilm is treating this release and it's fans. Further, unless an enhanced 16x9 high quality presentation is delivered on these films of the Original Unaltered Trilogy, I will no longer support buying any Lucasfilm product. I will also warn all friends and family of this substandard product.

Lucasfilm, you just lost a fan.

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If you buy all three sets through the StarWarsShop, the price is $59.99.

http://www.starwars.com/collecting/s...s20060519.html

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It's been mentioned a dozen times: Using the LDI cleanup alters the look of the original films.


According to the chapter on the restoration in "Into the Digital Realm," it seems like they had to use the interpositive but made new dupe negative sections. Today, duping isn't a big deal since stocks are so fine-grained.

I really wish I had the book at hand... it has a detailed account of the restoration.

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I said it in the original thread, and I'll say it again here. I'd have been tempted to buy these new releases to supercede my Definitive Collection laserdiscs of the unaltered trilogy. As it is, I have no reason to, and Lucasfilm have lost a sale. Their loss.

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OK ...

I've resisted posting in this thread due to the fact that I can't sit here and state that I'm not going to purchase these discs on September 12th.

But with me, there are special circumstances:
* I've never owned an LD player.
* The only versions I own of the original 1977, '80, and '83 movies are on P&S VHS, and I no longer even have a VHS deck in my rack.

So ... I'll be purchasing these discs on September 12th in whatever ragtag form Lucas deems to provide us with.

But I won't be happy about it.

To me, the SE's will forever be a nice "diversion". They are *not* the movies I grew up with. I *do* enjoy the increased "eye candy" and the little nods to the Prequel Trilogy that the SE's provide; and I don't care if Lucas continues to "enhance" these movies with even further alterations. That is, I don't care as long as he provides us with good representations of the *real* Star Wars movies. And it doesn't appear as though he's going to do that.

It's obvious now that Lucas no longer cares about the fans that stood in line for hours to see the original movie in 1977. Those fans have supported his franchise for close to thirty years. But he's just thrown them over his shoulder like yesterday's garbage. "Thanks for the loyalty, guys! But you're not needed now. Here: Take these non-anamorphic transfers of your beloved movies as a final kiss goodbye!"

In retrospect, what Lucas has done with the SE's would be tantamount to Walt Disney releasing a special edition of Snow White (the movie that built his empire) 20 years after its theatrical debut with new background animation and motivational alterations to the characters. (Perhaps this time we see the Prince being captured by the witch, plus Snow White doesn't willingly eat the apple), And then telling us to forget all about his original Snow White since he now doesn't believe the film represented his original vision due to budget and time constraints. We would all think that the man had gone crazy!

Right now, I hesitate to say what I think about Lucas.

Suffice it to say that after I purchase these discs in September I will *never* purchase another Star Wars related item.

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Thats a good point when you consider that there are 3-5 different audio mixes and 3 different video "mixes" of the each film. Any combination could be what the fans are asking for. Thats anywhere from 9 to 15 different possible combinations per film.

I think when people ask for the originals they should get just that which is what Lucasfilm & GL has attempted to do. The complaint is NOT the content (film or audio) at this point, its the media format (non-anamorphic DVD vs anamorphic DVD).



That's still more expensive than the current box sets that are available and the $20 premium isn't worth a non-anamorphic version of the originals & another copy of the 2004SE, IMO.



Unless of course he releases the original unaltered trilogy in a restored form on an HD-DVD or Blu-ray format.

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No offense but I see no logic in buying the very thing that you consider to be the final straw.

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I (nor any other obsessive geeks like me) have never caught evidence of such in ANH.

There is one such shot in ROTJ, though: Lando reacting to the Sarlaac tentacle grabbing him. Different take in the SE.

Only example I've ever noticed.

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There were edits discovered that shaved a few frames off of shots where laser bolts connected to whatever Imperial was being targeted. I don't believe there has ever been an official word whether that was to intentionally lesson the violence or not. Pretty lame.

I don't have the link, but maybe someone else does. There was a website up that showed the differences in the edits. This was all discovered before the SEs were on DVD though.

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IF film elements have indeed been compromised, another restoration avenue is possible.

While the entire original versions of the films were not scanned for the creation of the SEs, the shots chosen for alteration were. Thus those 2K source files, free of all the SE tinkering, would be archived. Thus everything that was changed (apart from the new wipes and dissovles, and perhaps the end credits) could be dug out of digital storage and output to film again, or simply cut back into the 2004 digital version.

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Yes, that's correct. But that was just relocating a couple of edit points (letting one shot go for a few frames longer, replacing the same amount of frames on the next), not an alternate take.

Again that indicates they still had negative trims, which boggles the mind.

I'll have to look at those "longer" shots again, though. Maybe you're right and those were alternate takes.