Star Wars discussion from The Bits... - Page 2

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Mr. Harris, if Lucas has separation masters from 1977 for Star Wars would it be possible to do an "Ultra Resolution" style transfer?

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I would agree, were it not for the fact that Lucasfilm is hyping up the original trilogy as though it were the "main event". The announcement on the official site is all about the unaltered OT, they're selling "Han Shot First" tshirts, etc. And the retailer advertising material we've been shown emphasizes this releases sales potential because of the inclusion of the original cuts of the films.

They released the SEs in 2004, and now they're offering them again, without the bonus disc. The only real selling point for this release is the original cuts, and they know it. They can excuse the non-anamorphic release by calling them "bonus material", but their marketing sure seems to consider them the key component of the release.

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That's what I've been hoping for, that enough fans would call or email (the contact numbers are pretty widely available if you look, and the email is in this thread) and that the set would eventually be PUSHED BACK. Sure, it'd ruin the "synergy tie-in" that would happen as the set is supposed to make for a Star Wars Tuesday that sees a new video game release as well as some other stuff, but hell--push the game back too in that instance. It'll still fly off the shelves, and I guarantee more sets WILL be sold if we know that it got pushed back so some REAL WORK could be done rather than dusting off a D1 and splicing in an original crawl.

Hell, Lucasfilm marketing is slick enough to spin it to even make the Pushback a selling point: "We heard you. We want to do it right, and so you might have to wait a little bit, but the guys who restored LAWRENCE OF ARABIA are working on this thing now. It'll be a little longer, but it will be worth your 20, trust me. (wink)"

A Pushback isn't retail death by any means, and I'm pretty sure would be welcomed at this point. At Minimum Advertised Price of 60 a pop for the whole trilogy (90 bucks at Suggested Retail) I'm pretty sure the restoration expenditure would easily be recouped. Maybe the profit on the DVD's would take a small hit to what they were expecting to make with the relatively lower cost of a D1 Laserdisc Port, but I don't think it'd be enough to offset the effort and make it a wash. Lucasfilm would still come out winners rather easily.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Robert, I don't think they can change, because as has been said before, I don't think this release is about the movies at all (and certinaly not about the original versions).
The reason for this release is to cross promote the concurrently released Xbox Lego game, and some more toys which will also be released concurrently.
This is apparent from the other 'bonuses' on the discs as well as being made mention of in the retailer advert.

This is a strategic release, just like the hasty SE release from 2004.

maybe you are right, and 60-90 days wouldn't be too much of a cross promotion stretch, but I feel confident I know, from plenty of past experience, where LFLs priorities lie.

_______

eh, Robert beat me to it- though he is,endearingly, more positive and upbeat than I am about the prospects here.

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I thought Ultra Resolution only worked with 3-strip?

He does allegedly have die-transfer elements of all three films.

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From all i have seen on my LDs, and even DVDs it SEEMS they save everything ever made, even unused props. So why would they not save every scrap of film, and keep it in the best possible condition? I have the Definitive LD boxset and on it many of the previews for the movies seem like VIDEO TAPE, and not even first generation. Just strange that they keep a rubber Yoda that WILL rot, but not FILM.

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I'm not someone who ever ranted and complained that the original versions must be released, or said silly things like the special editions ruined their childhood, etc. I gladly bought the 2004 DVDs, and I enjoyed them. And you know what? I said to friends of mine who wouldn't buy them, "Trust me, these are the films you remember."

However, I always felt that the original films should have been released alongside the special editions, and I said so at the time. I still think so, and I was very pleased that the original versions were coming to DVD. I mean, I can't afford the actual original film prints and projectors and cooled vaults, so having these on DVD is as close to film preservation as I get.

The Star Wars films have always set the standard. In the theaters, it was special effects, sound. On video, it was state-of-the-art in various technical aspects. Heck, check out the thread on the Revenge of the Sith DVD -- many people consider that to be reference quality! So I can't understand why the 1977-1983 films won't be released in anamorphic standard.

I will very likely still buy them, because I never bought the laserdiscs, but it sure will be a disappointment not to have them at the standard we've come to expect of all DVDs, let alone a Lucasfilm DVD, which is usually above and beyond the standard.

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Just to add my voice since this thread has the attention of Lucasfilm, I echo without reservation the following as posted by Aaron Silverman above:



Why? Because I agree fully with Mr. Harris:

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

My comment is this:

Out of curiosity I re-read the press release from the official SW site...
"Over the years, a truly countless number of fans have told us that they would love to see and own the original version that they remember experiencing in theaters," said Jim Ward, President of LucasArts and Senior Vice President of Lucasfilm Ltd. "We returned to the Lucasfilm Archives to search exhaustively for source material that could be presented on DVD. This is something that we're very excited to be able to give to fans in response to their continuing enthusiasm for Star Wars. Topping it off with a new interactive adventure makes September 12 a red-letter day for Star Wars fans."

So was this search unsuccessful? By the wording of the press release it seems that the search was meant to find the best possible elements to make these films look as good as they could without an expensive and time consuming restoration. If these are simply the same transfers that existed in 1992-3, then Lucasfilm should simply be up front about the quality we can expect. Otherwise people will think that these releases will look noticeably inferior to the SE versions on purpose.

I love Star Wars and it would be nice to have decent copies of BOTH versions. I personally like many of the changes done to the OT, but I would like to watch the originals in as good quality as is possible.

Thanks. Dave mack

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I was under the impression that the separation elements are three strip Technicolor. If that is the case, imagine how wonderful this could look! If not, I apologize.

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I feel rotten about saying this, but purely based on the timing,
it's very tough for me to buy into this generosity thing.

It *seems* that Mr. Lucas waited until he was able to sell
Special Editions to the public and wait until the introduction
of HD (and the possible demise of standard DVD) before attempting
to sell the Star Wars films one last time. It looks more of a business
decision that was timed perfectly.

Why not sell Star Wars on standard DVD one last time (while you
can) before starting the entire process all over again on the new
HD format?

Personally, if I were Mr. Lucas, this would be the most brilliant
marketing move I could ever make.

How many times have we seen the studios repackage their
product over and over again? Even more than ever, studios
are repackaging older titles at a faster pace as if they knew
this may be the last time they can sell it on the standard DVD
format.

If George *really* wanted to be generous, he would make
a definitive STAR WARS TRILOGY (new and original versions)
available as one of the first Blu-Ray releases. Offer it now so
we don't have to continue buying it all over again and again.

Sorry for my attitude on all this. After having to buy these
films a half dozen times over my lifetime, I just don't completely
buy the generosity factor.

As far as my views on Mr. Lucas not releasing these films
anamorphic? I think that if he really wanted to be generous
to his fanbase, he would have put a little more effort into
releasing these films in a manner that conforms to 2006
technology. How can anyone in this day and age release a
title of this magnitude non-anamorphic?

Even for those who don't agree that the films need anamorphic
treatment and would just be over enhanced, you can't deny the
fact that there are just too many of us that want these films to
fill our widescreen sets.

And transfers that are 13 years old?! Generous indeed!

If, by chance, I am underestimating the generosity of Mr. Lucas,
I deeply apologize. Perhaps I feel he is equally underestimating his
fanbase.

Yes, it's a great gesture that George is finally making these original
versions available for us. He certainly has the right to release these
DVDs in any manner he deems fit.

I think Bill Hunt at The Digital Bits said it best....

Anamorphic enhancement is the widely accepted industry
standard for the presentation of widescreen films on DVD

Please continue to post your opinions here in a constructive and polite
manner amd certainly, send letters to publicity@lucasfilm.com and include
a link back to this thread if you'd like.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

The SW films were not shot in 3-strip Technicolor. Dye-transfer prints may have been created, but that does not affect the fact that they were not 3-strip productions.


The SEs modified almost every shot in each film. Cutting out the SE modifications would leave almost nothing.

DJ

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Civily, yet strenously, here is how I feel about this release...

When every other Star Wars supplement on DVD has been presented in anamorphic widescreen, to learn that the original, unaltered trilogy would be presented non-anamorphically completely deflated the considerable enthusiasm I had for this release. To put it in its simplest terms: It went from a slam-dunk, sure-fire, buy one copy to watch and another to archive to maybe I'll put it on my Christmas list and maybe somebody will buy it for me. That's quite a swing for a couple day's time.

For a company that prides itself on presenting the best picture and sound possible, this is a preplexing decision that seems to fly in the face of its own standards. One would think that one of the main reasons for this release was made was to combat piracy; however what is being offered to us is little better than what is currently flooding the black market.

Finally, this release is now being perceived in some quarters as a slap in the face to some of the very fans that were the target market. Whether that was the intent or not is beside the point, this is genuinely how some people feel. This release had a real chance to mend the fences between Lucasfilm and those Star Wars fans that have been put-off by the decision to not release the original, unaltered trilogy for so long now. There's not much good will left with some of us, and a decision like this will squelch what little is there for some permanently.

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so what would be the most appropriate way to draft an e-mail to LFL?
Should I write a seven paragraph biography of my life and relationship to this franchise? or just a pithy one paragraph voicing my displeasure and intent?

does anyone actually read these in full?

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I was a kid when the OT came out. I saw them all in the theater. I saw (and loved) the SEs. I saw (and loved) the PTs. I bought the 204 DVDs and love them too.

Bottom line is that I have agreed with all of Lucas' creative choices, etc., since the OT came out. Thus, I can hardly be accused of being bitter, critical, whining, etc.

That said, I think this is a big mistake on the part of Lucasfilm. Many fans like me have invested a lot of money in home theater systems: digital sound, widescreen TVs, etc. Part of the reason we do this is because the original Star Wars films introduced us to a love of film and cinema, and we like to recreate that in our own homes.

So for Lucasfilm to release the original cuts of the movies in non-anamorphic widescreen--which was below industry standards 6 years ago--well, that doesn't make a lot of sense to many of us who were 6 or 8 years old back in 1977.

I won't be buying the DVDs this fall if they are non-anamorphic. I will buy a future release of the original cuts if they are.

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These films should be fully restored with an eye towards eventual release in HD, which would be impossible with 1993-era laserdisc transfers. The longer Lucasfilm waits the more difficult of a reality that may ultimately end up being (though with future advancements in technology theoretically anything is possible.) My personal favorite version of the films doesn't even exist except in my own mind, as there are bits I like here and there from all past releases. That said, from a purely historic standpoint these films need to be preserved in as close to their original states as possible for future generations.

Not to be indignant, but the Lucas empire and all involved have made an incredible bounty off of this franchise and it's time they threw the fanbase a bone. In fact, if this is the best effort they are inclined to offer in presenting the original versions of the films on DVD I say they owe purchasers of the DVD box set from 2004 the opportunity to send in for a free (or at least nominal cost plus s/h..I'm not an ogre) copy of these "bonus" discs. I will definitely add my name to the list of those not purchasing this set (as it stands now) come Sept. 12.

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In case LucasFilm is reading this, I'll just say that I would love to buy an anamorphic unaltered original trilogy, even if no cleanup work is done. I won't buy the non-anamorphic version. But, regardless of any of that, I really hope you will let Mr. Harris work his magic on the films. Even if the public never sees the results, steps need to be taken to make sure these films aren't lost somewhere down the road. I'm sure it would be a huge benefit for your eventual HD releases to have this work done.

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Also, Sept. 12th is my birthday so it would be a nice present, George!
(Just trying to keep the mood up and optimistic...) This thread is cruising along nicely now, let's all keep it on track.

d

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It was mentioned in the thread that got closed down how someone at LFL is apparently getting all of these e-mails. That same person was also made aware of the backlash that's occurring on this forum so hopefully she will get the message out to the "higher ups" who need to know how upset the community is about this issue.

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Absolutely. For a film franchise that has taken in over $4 billion in box office receipts and over $12 billion in merchandising, I don't think spending a few million dollars(if it's even that much) on restoration is too much to ask. Besides, they would make that money back a thousand times over in DVD sales. I hope the people at LFL are reading this and realize how imporant it is for them to do this thing the right way.

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Would those Eastman Color negatives be prone to fading or do they hold up? I'm guessing they last, otherwise, what would be the purpose of having them made? Could they be used for a film restoration? They could be the very best record of what Star Wars looked like in 1977.

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Since LFL is looking at this, I wanted to also state my official stance of not buying non-anamorphic releases of widescreen films on DVD. It is not a question of "who owes whom anything". It's the fact that anamorphic enhancement is an industry standard (try to compile a list widescreen major studio release in the last few years that are non-anamorphic).

I cannot believe that someone like the esteemed Robert Harris is offering his services and that the company in question is not jumping at the chance to work with him.

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Just thought I'd chime in here since we have the attention of LucasFilm.

I was thrilled, to say the least, when the announcement was made two weeks ago. Even though these prized discs were being released as "bonus material" (which really does feel like a slap in the face) and packaged with the SEs which are already owned by those who want them, I was still ready to be there on the 12th and plunk down my cash. But since the news that these will not be anamorphic came out I was totally deflated. I own a widescreen TV and certainly don't want to see a little rectagle floating in the middle of that screen when I watch the films. That is certainly not how they looked when I saw them in theatres originally! I will definitely have to pass on these releases unless changes are made. I mean, personally, I don't mind if there are little flecks and scratches here and there (though a full and proper restoration would be preferable) but they must be anamorphic and from the best available sources (not LD masters).

So why not do it right and then ALL the fans will be happy and we can get back to goofy and nerdy debates about the characters etc.

Cheers,
Dave

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I seem to recall that the Feb. 1997 issue of "American Cinematographer" has more detailed information on what exact state the original negatives for "Star Wars" were in around the time of the Special Editions than was given in most of the press surrounding the re-releases. Does anyone have a copy handy?

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I agree with The Bits, Ron and others who have stated that the fact these films aren't being presented anamorphically is disappointing. When I first heard the OOT was being released, like everyone else, I was surprised and elated. But the elation quickly turned to disappointment after hearing the films would be ported from the 1993 LD's. Coming from GL, who has and is pushing the bounds of theatrical presentations of films, whether visually or sonically, this decision seems strange. To me this is a giant step backwards. He has to know the picture quality of this on a 16x9 tv will be less than desirable.

The way I'm going to voice my displeasure is by not buying these dvds when they are released. As others have stated, I have purchased countless versions of these films. Even though I may initially miss out on the OOT dvds, something tells me they will pop up on the 30th Anniversary Editions. They are going to milk this cash cow for all it is worth. GL owes me nothing. If this is how he chooses to release his movies, that is his right. I guess I'll just have to be more selective in my upgrade of the SW dvds.

Chris

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The American Cinematographer issue covered the CRI issues. According to Rick McCallum the image was just gone.

It also covered why the original negative was cut up to begin with. Apparently there were several different stocks used in the shooting of Star Wars and before a chemical bath could be applied to the negative, it had to be cut apart because it seems you can't have disparate elements combined during this process.

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Well said, Chris. At this point, the only thing we can do is take a stand not to buy these discs if they're non-anamorphic. That's the only recourse we have and while it still might not be enough to make a change at least we can hope our collective voices are heard.