Star Wars discussion from The Bits... - Page 100

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Nicholas Martin,

Even though I know I am a nerd sometimes, that post did make me laugh.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Hey guys,

Just to throw my 2 cents in. My friends and I, all hardcore old school fans from the OT days, cut school to see TESB and Jedi on opening day, saw SW over 20 times in the theater back in '77...
All of my friends and I agreed that the midichlorian thing was hella lame. Just pointless and did indeed take alot of the zen and mystery aspect of the force away for us.
I remember we all actually said, "huh?!?!?" out loud when it was first mentioned in TPM. It was one of the things (along with the many "yippees...) that I had hoped would maybe be removed in a later DVD...


Just my (and my buddies' opinions...)


I could see how one could argue that it doesn't hurt the films at all but I can't see in any way how the concept makes the films better.




and I still haven't caved~!

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

They are only responding to the command of the most superior of all command in the ranks. Remember in E2, we were told the clones were totally obedient and far superior to droids. If given a command by the Chancellor, they would have no choice but to execute the order. They were basically hardwired.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Have you ever heard Buffy/Angel/Firefly creator Joss Whedon in any interviews?

He sometimes says something like, 'and I immediately thought of the Millenium Falcon...which most things do'

It was a joke. Plain and simple.


I last saw Episode 1 about five years ago or so.

Happy 100 thread pages!

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Dave:

That's cool, but I think that once you get over your initial reaction to the scene, and think about the concept, the idea makes a lot of sense, even if the execution is lacking.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

The thread hit the 100 page mark!

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Actually, midichlorians don't explain anything about the force. They are simply a mechanism by which the force interacts with the body. Why some very small number of people have a much higher number of midichlorians, and thus the potential to train to become a Jedi, than others is just as mysterious as ever.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Beat ya to it

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Nobody's right or wrong here. Nobody's opinion is more valid than anyone else's, that is why they are opinions. If the midichlorian thing works for fans, great. To me and my friends, we thought it was unneccesary that's all...
To us it sounded like some 1/2 assed explanation out of ST:TNG....

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Dave:

Do you care to explain why you thought it was lame?

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Do any of them discuss;
"Star Wars discussion from The Bits"
;-)

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Sure, I simply felt that it was unneccessary and by making it more scientific at least for me made it much less interesting and imaginative. The Force was mystical, existed everywhere, between Luke, the land, the rock, the ship.
By adding to it, (I didn't say changing it btw...) I thought it made it less interesting. Sometimes less is more. Sometimes the imagination of the viewer can create great things. Not everything has to always be spelled out.

I read an interesting take on this...

http://www.space.com/sciencefiction/...ns_000703.html

Just my opinion.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

I totally agree. Mediclorians were soooooooo lame. I mean, come on Lucas, I know you feel like you have to explain everything, but the force is mystical. The force is a mystical energy that surrounds us. Yoda tells us exactly what we need to know about the force in Empire Strikes Back. Also, having the force as a mystery makes it more difficult to poke holes in. Once you start explaining things too much, people start going, "Ok, so if that's the case, then what about this scene and that scene?" The prequels are full of crap like the mediclorians. There's no mystery in any of it anymore. Why bother with them if you know whats going to ultimately happen?

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Not for many pages, no!

This thread has turned into another pointless PT vs. OT argument, and should be locked IMHO, especially since there's a review thread for the very discs this thread was once about.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Dave/Aaron:

Others (such as myself, Robert Anthony, and Seretur) have expressed why the midis do not change the nature of the Force, etc. Instead of rehashing them here, I would just encourage you to read them.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Read them. Disaffected. I felt it adds absolutely NOTHING to the narrative or themes (I understand Lucas uses them to push the symbiosis theme, but I got a better look at that in The Land Before Time), while making something special about the OT devolve into a minor narrative engine.

Poor form for a storyteller. It's part of the "dot every i" and "cross every t" syndrome that has diminished the SW series (to varying degrees) since 1997.

My opinion,
Chuck

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

The etymology makes the significance of midichlorians obvious. Simply put, they are software that produces synthesized music that makes you turn green.

Now, what that has to do with the Force, I'm not sure, and George isn't talking.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

I feel so gutted that I don’t want to buy the limited edition version of the region 2 Star Wars trilogy, it’s not funny at all with this little consumer rip off stunt that George has pulled off. Now that I have opened a can of worms, this whole matter is depressing me big time

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Okay, people need to realize this:

I am not arguing about midis=force. I understand the whole "symbiosis" subplot.

What I am arguing is that making the force somehow measurable by a midi count demystifies it. It's no longer something mystical where a Jedi can tell just by "feeling a great disturbance" or "a tremor" or "a presence" etc.

A better way to do the Anakin discovery scene would have been to have one or both Jedi (at least QGJ who was a master) say how he has never felt a power this great/raw/etc. Not even in the presence of master Yoda. Maybe couple that with a scene of some kids/aliens picking on young Anakin and having him lash out with an uncontrolled use of the force, and then the Jedi having to step in, but even though they are fully trained and he is just a young boy, they have difficulty holding him in check, showing how immensely powerful even a young, unrefined Anakin really is.

That's all that would have been necessary. No need to sneak a blood test to get a midi count to say "oh look how powerful this kid is, his midi count is higher than Yoda's so he must be really powerful.

To summarize:
My beef is not that midis=force. My beef is that the use of a midi count was a cheap plot device that Lucas used to tell the audience how powerful Young Anakin was when there were better ways to do it.

Whether you liked or disliked the PTs, we've all agreed in various points of all the SW threads that Lucas isn't the greatest dialogue or plot writer, and to me, the use of midis is just proof of it.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Hey, if it works for you, great. It doesn't for me. Thing is, I am not trying to convince you or others to think my way about it and I also go out of my way to always write, "in my opinion" in my posts which often others here don't. I can read these explanations a zillion times and it's not going to make me suddenly like the idea. You've made your point. Can't you just leave it at that?

I'm sorry this went so off the rails....

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

So midichlorians are in the cells and the amount one has determines their strengh in the force. Anakin's is off the charts, so he is the most powerful Jedi. What I'm wondering is, since he lost so many cells when he lost his arms/legs/skin/whatever else was burned off, shouldn't he be much weaker in the force?

Seems like Obi should have kicked his arse on the Death Star then. Course it would explain why Vader couldn't hope to overthrow the Emperor himself...

Just wonderin'.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Carlo, that's exactly how I feel about it. I just wasn't able to express it as well as you.

Dave, I'm with you there, too. If midis work for others great. They don't for me. Just my feelings. There's no right or wrong and I'm certainly not trying to come across like I'm trying to change minds-- just trying to explain my feelings on the matter.

Vince, my guess would be that it has more to do with the concentration of midichlorians in your cells, not the raw amount in your body.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

That is why he is weaker in the Force than he was before in the suit. As for why he beat Obi-Wan, he lost alot of his power but he could still take on an old man.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

You've expressed it very well, Carlo. Lucas wasn't able to come up with a good story element and writing that explicitly SHOWED (in a mystical, I sense it/feel it way) why Anakin was the most powerful with the Force, but instead had to use the lame (and lazy) plot device of the midis.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Except that's exactly how he knew to test him. He felt the great disturbance, the vergence, whatever--and then tested the boy to quantify JUST HOW BIG IT WAS since that was the bureaucratic nature of the Jedi at that time--they went so far as to discover how to MEASURE force-potentiality.

Sure, he could have just guessed, but the fact is it was his FEELING that the boy was the Chosen One based JUST off his sense of the kid, that led to him testing.

The two concepts do NOT contradict. Midichlorians, at worst, SUPPORT the classic concept.

I think the problem with this debate isn't so much people trying to convince people of changing opinions. One side is clarifying facts about WHAT midichlorians are used for and how they fit into the mythos. The other side is arguing subjective acceptance of that idea. It's not even really the same argument. The Midichlorians ARE in the movie and this is what they do vs The Midichlorians are in this movie and I don't like them.

The problem comes when some arguments end up making statements questioning the veracity of the facts, perhaps erroneously taking the facts as being personal poster opinion.

That all said--I don't like the introduction of Midichlorians either, for the most part. But it's not a movie-stopper, for me.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

The midi test was NOT the only factor that Qui-Gon used to determine Anakin was the Chosen One, it was a combination of things:

1) Shmi's virgin birth. How's THAT for mystical? The fact that the midicholrians conceived Anakin in her womb is a sign that he is extraordinary.

2) The pod race "I'm the only human who can do it." That fact that a 10 year old kid can not only compete but win is another sign.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Richard - that's a whole 'nother can o' worms. I've always disliked the virgin birth explanation, and it's the one that drew the most audible snickers and guffaws in all 4 viewings I had of TPM in the theaters (in 3 cities, 3 weeks apart). Plus the connection to obvious contemporary beliefs (and no, I was not offended by it, I am a very lapsed Catholic bordering on Agnostic) is to me doubly lame.

It doesn't matter that the midi wasn't the only factor--the fact that it exists as a lame plot device to show how powerful he is, that is the fact that doesn't work for me.
It just shows that he's powerful with the force. I would think some of the best Younglings could have done as well (we'll never know).

But to show he was "the chosen one" required, apparently to Lucas's thinking, a midi test to show that he had more than Yoda.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Oh, I agree that the midichlorian idea is dumb to begin with. And this whole "virgin birth" thing is really bizarre; Lucas, spare us the absurd references to the supposed similarities to Jesus Christ...

I think the previous posters have it right. Qui-Gon could have sensed the unusually high force potential in Anakin in any number of ways, and in fact did so, like the unnatural ability for a kid to try to pilot a pod racer and not get killed almost immediately. These are the only sorts of things that should have led Qui-Gon to notice the strong force potential of Anakin. Why didn't Lucas just spend some more time developing this aspect of the story? But to actually try to put some number on it is silly, the midichlorian thing sounds like just some kind of cheap plot device to explain it quick and easy. And like I said, it doesn't really explain anything about the force anyhow, so it's pointless. Which is why a lot of Star Wars fans just ignore it as nonsense.

Actually, I think the same goes for Anakin's birth, it's just some convenient way to not have to answer the next logical question, "Well, who is the father of this boy that is so strong with the force?". By coming up with this very strange explanation, it dead ends the direct family ancestry on the father's side with Anakin. Thus there's no need to spend any time on the background of his father at all. It all comes across as a clumsy quick way to explain the situation without having to go into any story detail, which would have been a lot more interesting to get to see in the The Phantom Menace.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

I think this can be applied to most (all?) prequel debates.

Re: Star Wars discussion from The Bits...

Post 3000!




That was pretty gratuitous on my part.