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Time to cancel

post #1 of 43
4/4/06 at 11:18am
Thread Starter 
XM is moving in a horrible, horrible direction. I would be surprised if most people could identify it seperately from Sirius in an A/B test at the moment. Or at least in the rock station lineup. Ethel, for example, is so damn close to a Clear Channel FM station, that if you threw in ads, it would be impossible to tell the difference.

I've been a subscriber and evangelist since September 13, 2001. As of today, I'm done.
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post #2 of 43
4/5/06 at 8:49am
Quote:
I would be surprised if most people could identify it seperately from Sirius in an A/B test at the moment.


I certainly can, at least with the stations I listen to. The current direction is bothersome, tho. Too many LCD stations are being created.

Jason
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post #3 of 43
4/6/06 at 10:10am
Thread Starter 
By the way, for anyone who's interested, this is what Ethel's playlist has looked like over the past 7 days:

Station Rank Spins Audience
lw TW Artist Title TW lw +/- Reach/
Mill
2 1 NINE INCH NAILS Every Day Is Exactly The Same 38 36 2 0.038
13 2 DEATH CAB FOR CUTIE Crooked Teeth 37 29 8 0.037
1 3 FALL OUT BOY Dance, Dance 37 36 1 0.037
3 4 PEARL JAM World Wide Suicide 37 36 1 0.037
9 5 AUGUSTANA Boston 34 30 4 0.034
5 6 GORILLAZ Dare 34 34 0 0.034
7 7 WHITE STRIPES The Denial Twist 33 32 1 0.033
6 8 MATISYAHU King Without A Crown 32 32 0 0.032
4 9 WEEZER Perfect Situation 32 35 -3 0.032
14 10 JACK JOHNSON Upside Down 31 29 2 0.031
10 11 BLUE OCTOBER Hate Me 30 30 0 0.03
18 12 ROCK KILLS KID Paralyzed 30 28 2 0.03
19 13 SHE WANTS REVENGE Tear You Apart 30 28 2 0.03
16 14 SIA Breathe Me 30 29 1 0.03
11 15 YEAH YEAH YEAHS Gold Lion 30 30 0 0.03
24 16 YELLOWCARD Lights And Sounds 30 25 5 0.03
12 17 ARCTIC MONKEYS I Bet You Look Good On The... 29 29 0 0.029
17 18 EDITORS Munich 29 28 1 0.029
15 19 PANIC! AT THE DISCO The Only Difference Between... 29 29 0 0.029
20 20 COLDPLAY Talk 28 27 1 0.028
33 21 FRANZ FERDINAND Do You Want To? 28 21 7 0.028
8 22 HAWTHORNE HEIGHTS Saying Sorry 28 31 -3 0.028
28 23 DEPECHE MODE Precious 26 23 3 0.026
21 24 DEPECHE MODE Suffer Well 26 25 1 0.026
25 25 311 Don't Tread On Me 25 24 1 0.025
23 26 HARD-FI Cash Machine 25 25 0 0.025
27 27 STROKES Juicebox 25 24 1 0.025
22 28 FOO FIGHTERS No Way Back 24 25 -1 0.024
26 29 STROKES Heart In A Cage 24 24 0 0.024
36 30 MATISYAHU Youth 23 20 3 0.023

And here's what my local Clear Channel station has looked like:

Station Rank Spins Audience
lw TW Artist Title TW lw +/- Reach/
Mill
7 1 BUCKCHERRY Crazy Bitch 41 20 21 0.4958
24 2 KORN Coming Undone 39 13 26 0.5079
4 3 PEARL JAM World Wide Suicide 39 41 -2 0.4698
1 4 BLUE OCTOBER Hate Me 38 41 -3 0.481
10 5 PANIC! AT THE DISCO The Only Difference Between... 36 18 18 0.4366
3 6 NINE INCH NAILS Every Day Is Exactly The Same 33 41 -8 0.3975
9 7 GODSMACK Speak 25 18 7 0.2945
14 8 HAWTHORNE HEIGHTS Saying Sorry 25 17 8 0.3192
8 9 SHINEDOWN I Dare You 24 19 5 0.3104
18 10 PEOPLE IN PLANES If You Talk Too Much (My...) 23 16 7 0.1667
15 11 REVELATION THEORY Slow Burn 22 17 5 0.2735
12 12 ROB ZOMBIE Foxy, Foxy 21 18 3 0.2527
13 13 FAKTION Take It All Away 20 17 3 0.1338
16 14 30 SECONDS TO MARS The Kill 19 16 3 0.2146
30 15 COHEED AND CAMBRIA Welcome Home 19 11 8 0.0907
21 16 SEETHER The Gift 19 14 5 0.238
20 17 DISTURBED Just Stop 18 14 4 0.2061
19 18 HIM Rip Out The Wings Of A... 18 15 3 0.2563
27 19 HOOBASTANK If I Were You 16 12 4 0.189
20 RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS Dani California 16 0 16 0.2082
25 21 SEETHER Remedy 11 13 -2 0.1497
28 22 STAIND Everything Changes 11 12 -1 0.1498
22 23 FLYLEAF I'm So Sick 10 13 -3 0.1264
26 24 GORILLAZ Feel Good Inc 10 12 -2 0.151
44 25 GREEN DAY Holiday 10 7 3 0.1079
31 26 SYSTEM OF A DOWN Lonely Day 10 11 -1 0.14
29 27 VANISHED Favorite Scar 10 12 -2 0.0944
54 28 AUDIOSLAVE Out of Exile 9 5 4 0.0686
2 29 FALL OUT BOY Dance, Dance 9 41 -32 0.108
23 30 FOO FIGHTERS Best of You 9 13 -4 0.0848


Don't be naive and chalk this up as an isolated incident that will only affect one channel.
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post #4 of 43
4/6/06 at 10:18am
I might be in a minority, but I don't buy XM for the music, I buy it for the depth of sports, for the baseball channels, and for comedy. Sure, I love Da' Boneyard and Squizz, but I also recognize that it's the same songs every day. I can't count the number of times that a band is playing on Squizz or Ethel or Lucy at the same time, or the amount of times it's on Squizz, then immediately on Ethel, and sure enough back on Lucy again. Same goes for the contemporaries -- Mix and Kiss have the same shit every day all day (not that I listen to that crap ) The music isn't near as daring or original as I'd like, but at least there aren't commercials.

Doug
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post #5 of 43
4/6/06 at 10:32am
Quote:
Mix and Kiss have the same shit every day all day

Well...of course!

Those are top 40 channels. Their job is
to primarily play the most charted hits.
MIX also does this but adds a lot of 90s
music in as well.

Get away from those channels and you won't
hear as many repeats.

Geez, if you guys are complaining about short
playlists on XM, I'd hate to hear what you would
have to say about SIRIUS which is more FM-orientated.
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post #6 of 43
4/6/06 at 10:52am
Thread Starter 
Ron: looking at the data from mediabase, Ethel is giving songs as many spins as my local Clear Channel station. Jon Zellner himself said they've received numerous complaints about the obscurity of XM's music channels. I feel as though Ethel is the sign of things to come. XM will eventually be on the same level as Sirius and possibly FM.
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post #7 of 43
4/6/06 at 11:14am
Quote:
XM will eventually be on the same level as Sirius and possibly FM.


That thought scares me as well. Unfortunately, I do believe that this could be an eventuality. Once something niche goes mainstream a lot of the initial quality is lost. We certianly see examples of this in the DVD world.
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post #8 of 43
4/6/06 at 12:39pm
XM on the same level as SIRIUS?

That's VERY frightening!

If I have to pay to listen to anything remotely
as similar as the playlists on Sirius, I am getting
out of satellite radio altogether.

Let's hope this never comes to be.
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post #9 of 43
4/6/06 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Let's hope this never comes to be.


Well, I don't think it will quite get that bad, but the fact that niche stations are getting axed in favor of more "hit" based fare does bother me. If I wanted the greatest hits, I'd go out and buy them.

Also, it looks like Da Boneyard is going through changes that aren't to my liking. I'm going to have to see how the new XMLM fares, but I have a feeling I'm not going to like it.

Jason
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post #10 of 43
4/6/06 at 2:10pm
Thread Starter 
I think the only way that XM will go back to how it was around the Live 8 concerts is if they see much lower than projected growth during this quarter, and a churn rate that at least doubles.

My gut tells me that they'll have a record quarter from MLB and new hardware, and will continue to alter programming to appeal to the masses with 69 stations of hits, and only the hits.
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post #11 of 43
4/6/06 at 5:29pm
Quote:
programming to appeal to the masses with 69 stations of hits, and only the hits.


Doubt (hope?) it will get that bad but there's no doubt that it will continue to go that direction. Appeal to the masses is how you get the masses--more subscribers.
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post #12 of 43
4/6/06 at 7:33pm
I would love if XMLM covered metal from Anthrax all the way to Trivium. I believe I read that XMLM starts April 17th.
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post #13 of 43
4/6/06 at 8:20pm
Hank --

I didn't care much for LM when it was around before. It was a little "too metal" for me. I like the hard rock, and stuff that would be classified as old school metal (Anthrax, Suicidal, etc.) but LM was just not my bag.

Ron --

In terms of the Mix and Kiss playing the same shit everyday, you'll notice I said the same thing about Squizz, Lucy, and Ethel. I wish it was more varied all over the place, but it's not. It also seems to go in phases. For example, on the 60's, 80's, whatever channel, I will hear one band repeatedly for a week or two, then they'll be gone for a week or two, then be back again. For example, Neil Diamond () was all over the 60'/70's, Sunny, etc channels for about 2 weeks straight, then I would go days without Neil, then it would be all Neil all the time again and on multiple channels overlapping each other. (SkyFi2)

Um... it was the same for GNR, Faith No More, Metallica, Queensryche, and QOTSA too... Not just Neil.

Doug
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post #14 of 43
4/10/06 at 8:44am
Lemme see, they are dropping Music Lab, but added Big Tracks. There is no way we are going to hear Flower Kings, Echolyn, Spocks' Beard, Transatlantic, Cairo, etc on Deep Tracks or Fine Tuning. They are all going to be gone. But we've got Big Tracks now to be clone of Top tracks. I can't tell much difference except the playlist is shifted a couple hours.

I'll keep the one subscription that I have paid up for another year and a half, but the secondary one is soon to be gone. Anyone want to buy an original roady?

Dennis_H
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post #15 of 43
4/10/06 at 10:06am
Has XM been scared into watering down there playlists due to the surging Sirius?
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post #16 of 43
4/10/06 at 10:51am
John,

It wouldn't make sense.

People aren't necessarily picking Sirius
because of their music programming, though
there are those that know both services who
do.

Sirius has gained a huge surge in growth
mostly thanks to Howard Stern and the exposure
he has brought to the company.

If not for Stern, I have no doubt Sirius
would not have surged as it had, and not
many people would be talking of migrating
there based on its music programming.

As much as I hate Sirius for their music
programming, I'll be the first to admit that
there *needs* to be two separate philosophies
of music selection between both services. If
both XM and SIRIUS played the same types of
music, it would turn off many of its most
loyal listeners.

In this stage of the game, XM needs to remain
eclectic with its selections, playing a wider
variety of music. Sirius, on the other hand,
succeeds very well with its short playlists and
repetition. People who like FM radio are very
happy with that service.

My thoughts.
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post #17 of 43
4/10/06 at 11:24am
Quote:
Lemme see, they are dropping Music Lab, but added Big Tracks. There is no way we are going to hear Flower Kings, Echolyn, Spocks' Beard, Transatlantic, Cairo, etc on Deep Tracks or Fine Tuning. They are all going to be gone. But we've got Big Tracks now to be clone of Top tracks. I can't tell much difference except the playlist is shifted a couple hours.


There is definitly a difference between Big Tracks and Top Tracks, but I do think there is too much overlap between the two stations (Big Tracks seems to start in the mid 70s.)

Quote:
Has XM been scared into watering down there playlists due to the surging Sirius?


I'd like to think not, but it seems like every time XM updates their lineup, "hits" station seems to appear, while niche stations disappear. I mean, we've lost Special X, On The Rocks, WorldZone, and now XM Music Lab, and we get stations like The Blend, Lucy, Highway 16 and Big Tracks. Granted, some niche stations have been created, like Fungus, but not nearly as many as "hits" stations.

This started bothering me back when Special X was taken off the air, and it really bothers me now. The problem I'm having right now is that I really have nothing to replace XM Music Lab on my preset. Nothing that is being added rises to that level for me.

More and more, I really wonder if XM wants me as a customer.

Jason
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post #18 of 43
4/11/06 at 7:01am
I guess I'm in the minority here. I actually like what Ethel has become. Granted I only came to the service in January. There seems to be 4-5 top pop stations now, so why can't there be one top rock station? It's nice to have at least one rock station that plays all songs I know. I understand people like deep playlists but having one pop rock station isn't too bad.

I do agree though that they need to lengthen the playlist on Ethel. I do hear the same songs many times a day. I listen all day at work.
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post #19 of 43
4/12/06 at 9:48am
Thread Starter 
Kyle: I don't think anyone wants Ethel to get really obscure; that's for XMU. Maybe a song here and there, but most of it should be relatively popular bands. The problem right now is that they're playing the same songs over and over again. The old Ethel played deeper cuts from popular artists in addition to their chart toppers. Being able to tune in and hear "The White Stripes - Ball & Biscuit" once in a while instead of Seven Nation Army, for example.

Unless the songs are brand new, and I'm talking within a month at most, they shouldn't be getting more than a spin a day on the channel. Right now "OAR - Hey Girl" is getting 3-4 spins a day, and that song's 3 years old.
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post #20 of 43
4/13/06 at 1:58pm
I am cancelling on Monday. Without Music Lab, it's just not worth it. I do enjoy other channels, don't get me wrong, but probably one-third of my time is on Music Lab.
Also, has anyone noticed more compression? I could be wrong, but XM just isn't sounding as good to me. That and it seems to take a couple extra seconds for most channels to load.
I really did love XM and raved to everyone, just not anymore.
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post #21 of 43
4/14/06 at 10:07pm
I am a satellite radio owner since May, 2004. While I have Sirius, I find this discussion interesting as well. When I chose services, I never considered music choice. It was talk and sports that drove me. If XM had Baseball at the time, I might've gone their way, but the NFL plus National Public Radio made my choice for me. Howard was an added bonus.

Anyway, I digress. I am wondering if music will be a major player in deciding which service to go with in the future. With services like iTunes, Rhapsody, and others as well as my ability to select cuts from CDs I own, I have several mixed CDs that I burned myself and which serve as my music channel/stream. In the age of a la carte self-serve music, why be at the mercy of any radio station, satellite or terrestrial?
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post #22 of 43
4/15/06 at 1:07am
Thread Starter 
Well, the main point of me owning satellite was to get clued in to awesome music that I didn't know existed. Seeing as they're moving into the FM top 40 format now, there's no unique music anymore.
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post #23 of 43
4/15/06 at 1:12am
Kevin,

Where you going to go now? Back to FM? Sirius?

Music repetition is far worse on the other service.
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post #24 of 43
4/15/06 at 5:34am
Probably to that other competitor: Ipod.
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post #25 of 43
4/15/06 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Anyway, I digress. I am wondering if music will be a major player in deciding which service to go with in the future. With services like iTunes, Rhapsody, and others as well as my ability to select cuts from CDs I own, I have several mixed CDs that I burned myself and which serve as my music channel/stream. In the age of a la carte self-serve music, why be at the mercy of any radio station, satellite or terrestrial?


My wife LOVES Rhapsody, but she still has a Roady 2 in the car. I have a 20GB MP3 player in my car, yet I still listen to my Audiovox. Why? Because I want to discover new music that I may not have heard before. For me, that's the point of music on the radio.

That's why I don't get these "hits" stations. Really, if all you want to do is hear what is familiar with you, there are better options. With an iPod, you'd never have to hear a song you didn't like.

It is really disappointing me that XM is getting away from the new music a bit, at least in genres that aren't particularly hot. To me, a station like "Big Tracks" is a waste.

Jason
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post #26 of 43
4/21/06 at 7:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein
As much as I hate Sirius for their music
programming, I'll be the first to admit that
there *needs* to be two separate philosophies
of music selection between both services. If
both XM and SIRIUS played the same types of
music, it would turn off many of its most
loyal listeners.

Ron,

What channels do you listen to? Jam On, Disorder, and the Jazz stations are what fit my tastes, and they are pretty far removed from FM around here, by a country mile! I can't speak for stuff like the 70s or 80s channels but I'd rather have a root canal than listen to any nostalgia pop format, diverse or repetitive.
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post #27 of 43
4/21/06 at 4:15pm
Hopefully Kevin N lasted out the Ethel situation. Ethel is very good right now. A few hit type stuff but they have gone back a bit to playing deeper alternative rock.

I also use XM for new experiences and XMU is the king for that. I would never have heard of Modest Mouse, The Feint, Spoon, The Dears, Handsome Boy Modeling School, TV on the Radio, and so on without XMU. Many great groups just rising. The Verge (Unsigned) is also good for that.
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post #28 of 43
4/21/06 at 5:26pm
I am fairly new to satellite radio having signed up with XM in February. I couldn't be happier and rarely have it off while in the car.

I'll admit my tastes probably skew differently than those in this thread. Most of my time is spent on the classic country and old time radio channels with occasional time spent on the talk and baseball channels. The diversity of programming is what hooked me. There is a slight amount of repetition on the music channels, but the playlists are very, very deep and I've heard songs that I would never hear on regular radio and that aren't even commercially available.

XM gets a big thumbs up from this torch and twang lover
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post #29 of 43
4/21/06 at 9:43pm

I understand the frustration with Ethel but I do agree they've been better in the past week. My suggestion would be to not toss out the baby with the bathwater. Granted, I may be somewhat unusual in that I listen to a bunch of different XM channels because my tastes are probably more varied than the average Joe. However, XM Radio still rules any way that you slice it. Dollar for dollar I can't think of "entertainment" money that's better spent, IMHO. Personally, I wouldn't drop it simply because a single channel lost its "focus", so to speak, but that's just my opinion. Your mileage may vary. :-)
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post #30 of 43
5/7/06 at 4:52pm

Re: Time to cancel

Huh. Maybe it's time for me to cancel my XM. My SkyFi 2 just crapped out on me, or the antenna, one or the other. I power it up and it just says "Antenna" and never connects. (I'll have to bring it inside and test it.)

I think this is a sign that I was getting bored with the music -- I used to love the comedy channel too, but feel like I here the same bits over and over again.

I don't know if I want to sink money into a new unit, my CD player in my car is going out too. It would be just as easy to buy a new CD player with XM installed, but I liked having the movable unit. Is XM going to refund my remaining contract dough, or am I out the $120?

Doug
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