Upcoming BCI Ultraman DVD is pretty suspicious . . . - Page 2

It seems foolish to start litigation without contacting the company accused of the offense. As far as I know BCI hasn't heard anything from Tsuburaya.



I guess I did. Your posts made me think you had contact with them.

So who has actually spoken with Tsuburaya, and when did the conversation take place? Could it be everyone is basing their comments off old conversations? That's what's so frustrating about this; we have one company (BCI) which claims they have court documents saying the company licensed it from has the rights to the show, and we have tons of heresay from people online.

Gord

That's what's making me rather nervous. I know that Japanese companies have the whole "less talk and more action" stance. But Tsuburaya is not exactly Toho. Whereas Toho is a big corporation, Tsuburaya is a family business, which has had great business with big companies in Japan (including Bandai and Panasonic).

If this were Toho we were talking about, they would've taken Chaiyo down before any press coverage!


I am friends with the H!O staff, although I don't exactly live door to door to them (I live in Richmond, VA, and much of the main staff is in California).


And don't forget the Thai (English-language) media. They have heresay about this whole mess, too. (Including the whole lie Chaiyo made about Tsuburaya having "financial difficulties" in one of the articles after the last court trial.) Japanese press have told a whole different side of the story. I agree, this case is very, very complicated.

August Ragone and Bob Johnson, the main H!O staff, were probably the ones who talked to Tsuburaya (Johnson did the entire original article I posted over at ToonZone; John Pannozzi posted my ToonZone post here for me). Keith Aiken also has contacts with them as well (which is why I asked him for contact info).

Anyone know who owns the rights for Spectreman, Space Giants, and Johnny Sokko? I'll pass on Ultrman, but if Spectreman is released on dvd, I will buy it for sure. I'd even buy a copy for a friend. That is what a nice guy I am.

Could it be that Chaiyo has fooled everyone into thinking that they have the rights to worldwide distribution? Also, why is BCI rushing to release this property when they could have taken the time to find out the details from Tsuburaya.

Chaiyo and BCI seems to have fooled everyone and the longer this fight goes on with this release the more confused I'm getting. Like, how can a court in Thai, which Chaiyo is based, granted them the judgement.

It just seems kind oif suspicious to me and is casting dubious doubt on BCI's behalf.

Mark, the court documents are from the Japanese Supreme Court; it has nothing to do with Thailand.

I don't see any indication that BCI is trying to fool anyone. Here's the story from their point of view: they had someone contact Tsuburaya to inquire about US rights for the show but were told they don't own them. They found court documents from the Japanese Supreme Court indicating Chaiyo owned the property so they contacted Chaiyo and negotiated the rights to release the series in the US. Like I said, that's the story from them.

The story from the fans is completely different. Their story is that Chaiyo has stolen the property from Tsuburaya and doesn't have the rights to it anywhere other than Thailand.

This whole thing is messy, and I think a lot of it has to do with bad information floating around, and no one knowing all the facts. Until proven otherwise I'm siding with BCI. They seem to be able to provide a lot more information on the situation, and they're working on translating the Japanese court documents showing that Chaiyo owns the rights to the show in the US. BCI is not going to try and release something that they don't have rights for; there's too much at stake for the company.

Whatever the case may be, Ultraman will be a failure when it hits DVD. Even if it's proven that Chaiyo owns the rights to the series in the US and granted BCI a proper license the fans won't buy it because of all the misinformation that's been spread.

Gord

Gord, thanks for invaluable input. IN this case, simple argumentative heresay has replaced the factual evidence in this story then. I honestly think that the litigation between Tsuburaya and Chaiyo and the resulting widespread panic introduced by those angry over the fact may end up dooming this series before it's even released.

I would rather see Tsuburaya and Chaiyo come to some sort of agreement and co-produce the release for distribution in the United States. Also, since Tsuburaya holds the original DAT recording of the English dub this is going to hurt any potential success for the release of these sets. What's going to happen is that fans are going to end up seeking unauthorized copies of the original series and that's the real crime. There are quite a few fans who do download the material and while I deal mostly in Japanese anime and have downloaded the original fansub versions of the anime I do support the anime industry here in the United States.

I have downloaded over 50 different anime episodes and while I no longer own those donwloads (ended up deleting them once they became license by an anime studio here in the United States). I've supported the industry as I own over 200 individual anime DVD's which I've paid $20 on average for each DVD. This is why I don't have a problem spending $20 on anime DVD's but debate the price over Hollywood produced entertainment.

At any rate, BCI will end up selling some copies of their Ultraman release but they are risking an eventual in loss revenue for the Ultraman release due to the legions of fans who know the story behind this release.

I wonder what Gord and Dave's attitude are toward this whole mess and if they have any plans on reviewing the release or purchasing the sets.

Please bear in mind that I don't advocate downloading and while it is technically againast the law the vast majority of anime studios in Japan don't prevent anime fans from creating the fansubs as it gives them a much a larger worldwide fanbase and helps promote their anime shows and has assisted some companies such as ADV Films in determining which shows they license to release. 98% of all anime fansubs are removed from websites when the series becomes licensed.

That's never going to happen, Mark. Tsuburaya and Chaiyo will never agree to anything. They'll fight to the bitter end. As long as this legal battle goes on, Ultraman is in limbo.

Either way, I'm rooting for Tsuburaya. It's always been their dream to market Ultraman in North America. And it's not just the whole Chaiyo deal that's holding things up, it's America's distaste with Japanese superhero programs (which I'll never understand). Until now, nobody was interested in Ultraman.

Like Bob said, until the final victor emerges, this battle will scare away any US DVD label. It's unfortunate.

BCI is not the bad guy here. I'm sure Tsuburaya would've loved to work with them, but they can't. Because even if they did, Chaiyo could try to go after the US distributor, which could back out, not wanting to be any part of a legal entanglement. This would make matters worse. Chaiyo is essentially trying to damage Tsuburaya's overseas business, using their overseas merchandising rights as a testament.

The Henshin! Online staff, BTW, is very reliable. They have visited the sets of every new tokusatsu movie & show in Japan, including Ultraman (especially since there's some Japanese staff among H!O; Oki Miyano among them).


This is the same deal with tokusatsu fans, that is, if the official product is worth buying. Tokusatsu fans aren't stupid. They've seen screenshots of the R2 Ultraman DVDs (some of them even HAVE the DVDs themselves).

I'll buy it, just to have it in case it never comes out in a better version. And if it later gets released from better materials direct from Tsuburaya, then I'll buy it again, and give my old set away. Ultraman is worth it.

I can see why BCI would want to release the series but why rush it? And, I'm curious how a Japanese court would side with Chaiyo when it's Tsuburaya created it. You'd think a Japanese court would rule for the company who created the series and just how in God's name did Chaiyo get worldwide distribution rights for everything Ultraman outside Japan? There's something very fishy about that mess.

OK, to clarify what H!O was writing about, the center of the case here is a forged document with a fake hanko (Japanese signature stamp) by the late Noboru Tsuburaya. It was because of the hanko that the Japanese and Thai courts thought the document was legal and binding (despite the forged document itself containing many errors), and the hanko can easily be forged, but the document does not contain Noboru's hand-written signature, so the Tokyo courts let Chaiyo off only somewhat easy, even though they rejected their other claims. Now, if the case was taken to the US, Chaiyo would lose, flat out. The whole hanko thing would never fly in a US court.

The verdict: Tsuburaya, of course, keeps the copyright to Ultraman, and has the rights to the characters and shows (which, consequently, they have the international rights to). Chaiyo's claim to everything Ultraman outside Japanese territories was rejected by the court. Their claim as being the creators of Ultraman has been dismissed also. They are forbidden from making any new shows, movies and characters (which they are trying to do anyway), and their claim to the entire Tsuburaya catalogue (including their non-Ultraman shows) was also rejected. However, the Tokyo court awarded him the rights to the first 6 Ultra Series and Jumborg Ace (another Tsuburaya superhero series) in regards to broadcast/home video rights in Thailand, and supporting merchandise (toys, etc.) outside Japan. That's it. However, even if Tsuburaya could market the shows here, Chaiyo could try to sabotage everything by suing the US distributor, which could back out. That's what Tsuburaya's afraid of. And that's why, until Tsuburaya finally takes out Chaiyo in court, we will not see a legit release of Ultraman or the rest of the Ultra Series here.

BTW, this is nothing like the whole case with the 1966 Batman series. Neither 20th Century Fox nor DC Comics had any ulterior motives on each other. But I would like to see that show on DVD.

There's a potential backlash here that no one is thinking of. If Tsuburaya happens to get Chaiyo's claim dismissed or overturned and they get the rights back they could force BCI to remove those Ultraman sets they released under their agreement with Chaiyo from store shelves, costing them a great deal of money.

This would also mean that Chaiyo could find themselves in a U.S. Court forcing them to return the licensing money that BCI paid to them as well as the lost money that BCI suffers from having to pull those DVD's from the shelves.

I just hope that Tsuburaya gets the Chaiyo claim thrown out.

That's what I'm hoping happens. Chaiyo's taking BCI for a ride, so I hope that Tsuburaya intervenes soon, and that BCI hasn't made those discs yet. Because this can be damaging to BCI, especially with all the other cool things they're planning. (Everything else they have is legit but the Ultraman DVD set.)

And Chaiyo's landing in a US court is most likely to happen. This is where Tsuburaya may have a chance.

My only interest in Ultraman is in the original 1966 series. I will buy the release and be done with it. I don't really care about any of these issues. If something happens and BCI doesn't put it out, I'll pick up a bootleg copy.

Sorry to say this, and I respect your opinion, but as a fan of the shows, I personally think that's rather closed-minded. What's wrong with the other shows? I love the first show also, but that doesn't mean I have to shut all the others out. There's more to Ultraman and other tokusatsu than what's seen in the US.

If I had to recommend any of the other Ultra Series, if just a few, Ultraman is part of the "big three" first shows. The other two being Ultra Q (the predecessor to Ultraman) and Ultra Seven (my favorite, by far, and considered the best of the Ultra Series by fans in Japan). All three shows were created by Eiji Tsuburaya (before his death in 1970), so they are the ones I recommend the most.

Interestingly, Ultra Seven was intended by Eiji to be the final Ultra Series! But he and his company changed their minds upon seeing how incredibly popular the first three shows were. The show that that was planned would result in Return of Ultraman (which is actually a pretty good show, but I wouldn't recommend it to you if you're in a hurry; You could say that the Ultra Series sort of "jumps the shark" there), but Eiji never lived to see the series go into production.

BTW, Tsuburaya originally offered Ultra Q to the US distributors back in the late 60s, but since the show was in B&W, they passed. That's a shame, because it's a great SF/monster show, almost like a half-hour Toho monster movie! Think The Twilight Zone and The Outer Limits, but with continuing main characters, much like The X-Files.

If you have money to burn, I highly recommend the Japanese Region 2 DVDs of the series, which have mind-blowing picture quality. But those are the prints that should be used for a US release. None of the current bootlegs with the English dubbing come close (some of these bootlegs are from Chaiyo). Plus, Tsuburaya holds on to the audio masters for the US English dub (for a possible English track). So as long as they hang in there, there's hope!

If Tsuburaya intervenes, foils Chaiyo and comes to terms with BCI (maybe), then we'll start seeing a quality release with plenty of extras. From Tsuburaya, I guarantee the best.

I dunno, maybe I'm just more patient.

John,
Thanks for pointing out the different Ultrman series. I didn't even know they existed. Is Ultraman Tiga any good? It is currently the only ultra title available on dvd in the U.S, and I thought about getting it.
Also, do you know who owns the rights for Spectreman, Space Giants, or Johnny Sokko? More than anything, I would love to own those on dvd one day.

Ah, it's these kinds of posts that brighten my day.

Before I do a list of the Ultra Series, let me say that Ultraman Tiga is indeed a great series! It is the first of the new-generation shows that have set the pace for the newer ones. Also, Tiga is not the only legit release; Image released two of the Heisei Ultraman movies: Ultraman Tiga & Ultraman Dyna and Ultraman Gaia: Battle in Hyperspace. The prints used are in stellar condition! Look them up on Amazon!

Anyways, here are the Ultra Series. This is the list of basic shows up to the present:

-Ultra Q (1966)
-Ultraman (1966-1967)
-Ultra Seven (1967-1968)
-Return of Ultraman (1971-1972)
-Ultraman Ace (1972-1973)
-Ultraman Taro (1973-1974)
-Ultraman Leo (1974-1975)
-The Ultraman (1979-1980) Anime
-Ultraman 80 (1980-1981)
-Ultraman: Towards the Future (1990) Australian co-production (one of the few to air in the US); Known as "Ultraman Great" in Japan.
-Ultraman: The Ultimate Hero (1993) US co-production (never aired in the US); Known as "Ultraman Powered" in Japan.
-Ultraman Tiga (1996-1997)
-Ultraman Dyna (1997-1998)
-Ultraman Gaia (1998-1999)
-Ultraman Neos (2000) Direct to DVD series
-Ultraman Cosmos (2001-2002)
-Ultraman Nexus (2004-2005)
-Ultraman Max (2005-2006 nearing end)
-Ultraman Moebius (2006; premiering in April)

Of the many coinciding Ultraman movies made, the most recent one, Ultraman the Next (2004), is considered by fans to be the best incarnation of Ultraman in a while! The movie is currently playing at art theaters in certain parts of the country (Google it!). It's going to play in New York at some sort of "B-movie" festival soon.

Ultraman isn't the only Japanese superhero to look out for; The other famous superhero in Japan is Kamen (Masked) Rider! Created by the late manga master Shotaro Ishinomori, he's the one who started the "Henshin Hero" craze that has resulted in hundreds of other shows including the Super Sentai Series (which has been hacked into Power Rangers since the 16th series Zyuranger from 1992) and the Metal Hero Series (few of which were hacked into VR Troopers and Big Bad Beetleborgs). There are still Kamen Rider shows being made in Japan, the newest show that just started is Kamen Rider Kabuto.

Another favorite superhero show of mine is Android Kikaider (also created by Ishinomori), which is a huge success in Hawaii (where it is titled by its Japanese name, Jinzo Ningen Kikaida). There are great subtitled Kikaida DVDs available there in Region 1! You can order them on Amazon, or find them at stores like Tower Records. Or, you can order them at GenerationKikaida.com.

As for the other shows you mentioned,

-The Space Giants (based on Osamu Tezuka's Ambassador Magma, produced by P Productions), at least the US version, is still owned by the US distributor, Bernard Schulman of Lakeside Productions. He recently thought of getting a DVD release for them, but is also suing a label called Powerslam Productions for the video rights (Powerslam was selling bootlegs and labelling them as official).

-Johnny Sokko and his Flying Robot (based on Mitsuteru Yokoyama's Giant Robo, produced by Toei Company Ltd.), I heard, is owned by Sony/MGM.

-I'm not sure who owns Spectreman (based on the show of the same name, produced in 1971 by P Productions), but I'm sure it's up for grabs. I do know that Wonderland Video came out with them in the early-to-mid 80s (around 1984) and are hard to find now, although Suncoast actually sold a bunch of them in the early 90s!

BTW, the Japanese version DVDs of Spectreman must be seen! From the screenshots I saw, the picture quality is beautiful! They have tons of great extras, including the textless opening and the rare pilot episode (where Spectreman, then called "Elementman", had a different costume, and his alter-ego was played by Jiro Dan, who left after its completion to star in Return of Ultraman)! The original DVD collectors' set was all of the discs fitted inside a 1/1 scale Spectreman head!

What about Eighth Man?

8th Man is based on 8-Man (1963), created by Kazumasa Hirai and Jiro Kuwata (my favorite manga artist), and was produced by TCJ and Eiken. He is, in fact, Japan's earliest cyborg superhero, many years before Kamen Rider!

I'm not sure myself about who owns the rights to the US version of the anime, but I do know for certain that the Japanese version is available on DVD! So I wouldn't be surprised if, say, some company like ADV picks up the rights. That would be great!

Re: Upcoming BCI Ultraman DVD is pretty suspicious . . .

Looks like this may actually be a go!

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=5552

The extras sound absolutely divine. You betcha I'll be picking this one up, if it actually hits the shelves. And if it's released later down the line in a considerably improved version, I'll by that one too.

Re: Upcoming BCI Ultraman DVD is pretty suspicious . . .

Split season set for a half hour show? Is that really necessary?

Re: Upcoming BCI Ultraman DVD is pretty suspicious . . .

This is great news. Exactly what I wanted.... original Japanese sound track with the option of English. I look forward to this one.

Re: Upcoming BCI Ultraman DVD is pretty suspicious . . .

Can't wait to see Peter Fernandez and Corinne Orr's interviews! I wish BCI had the rights to Speed Racer and Marine Boy...grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Re: Upcoming BCI Ultraman DVD is pretty suspicious . . .

Judging from the news item at TV Shows on DVD I'm quite excited about this. With newly created English subtitles? I think it's going to be very interesting to see how this is going to sell when it hits. Looks like I'll be picking up this one when it hits.

Does this also mean that we're going to see the original English dub that was captured during the original broadcast in the United States?

Re: Upcoming BCI Ultraman DVD is pretty suspicious . . .

Yep, the original dub, done by Peter, Corinne and Co. It's gonna be good!

Re: Upcoming BCI Ultraman DVD is pretty suspicious . . .

I'm wondering how BCI convinced Tsuburaya Productions to release the original English dubbing track to BCI because the whole point of Chaiyo continuing to negotiate the release with BCI would depend on the success of sales of this release and if they didn't acquire the rights to the original dubbing track and if Tsuburaya held onto them, the company could doom the release of this initial title. ... ahahahah ....

Re: Upcoming BCI Ultraman DVD is pretty suspicious . . .

Well, all I know is I'm picking this up the exact second it hits the shelves, just in case it disappears the next second.

In another thread, I asked Cliff what materials they were using for the Ultraman release, and he replied:


Now, I think he meant to put a "not" between "I'm" and "sure", but at least he says the masters look beautiful. I hope I think so too.

Re: Upcoming BCI Ultraman DVD is pretty suspicious . . .

As far as I know, neither BCI or Tsuburaya Productions (TPC) have spoken to each other about this project. I don't know where BCI obtained their English-language tracks, but to the best of my knowledge, they did not obtain them from TPC (who also have the Spanish and French tracks that were prepared at Titra Studios in NYC).

Once again, to the best of my knowledge, BCI would also not have obtained any film or video masters from Tsuburaya Productions or Panasonic (who was partner in producing the amazing digital restoration of the series in 2001).

I wish both companies the best of luck in the future, and hope that any problems that may result concerning this release will be resolved to their mutual satisfaction.

Re: Upcoming BCI Ultraman DVD is pretty suspicious . . .

Doesn't this prove that Tsuburaya is the copyright holder? They made Ultraman tv shows outside of japan. How could they do this without being the legal copyright holder?

To Gord... Tsuburaya created Ultraman, Tsuburaya owns Ultraman. I don't understand how you can believe a forged document.

BUT, in defense of BCI... They are licensing Ultraman from the company who claims to hold the copyright outside of japan. Tsuburaya will either do something to stop them or not. If they don't do anything, then I will buy the discs from BCI. If the real copyright holder does nothing to protect their interests, then they are doing as much as condoning it.

I think if Tsuburaya brought this to court in the U.S., they would win hands down. I don't understand why they aren't... or maybe they are, and come July, we'll see a certain dvd set disappear from the pages of Amazon.com.

No American would see those documents for anything but the forgeries they are. (well some americans would...)

And for the record- Chaiyo is a Thai company..

Thai are from Thailand- near Cambodia/Vietnam
Taiwanese are from Taiwan- trying hard not to be part of China

I've seen this get confused on other message boards regarding this topic (and for some reason have disabled registration).

I have 4 of the Region 2 discs from japan, and 3 of the Ultra Q (which I got signed by Hiroko Sakurai at Comic-Con one year ) Anyway they are absolutely great quality... I doubt the CHAIYO DVD will be even close.

I was thinking about how TBP has the "original" english DAT.. well this show was made in '66... there was no such thing as DAT then. So it's always possible that Chaiyo has a copy of a soundtrack before they were transferred to DAT. It might not be so bad.

I'm sure I overlooked some points... your responses please!

Re: Upcoming BCI Ultraman DVD is pretty suspicious . . .

So you question how I can believe a "forged document" (I have no idea how you came to that conclusion - have you seen the document?), and then you go on to say that they are licensing it from the company that claims to own the rights to the show, and you'll support the release if Tsuburaya doesn't do anything. Okay....

I honestly could care less about Ultraman. I'm not interested in the show one bit. What I don't like to see is a company attacked when people don't know the whole story (and I'm not claiming I do). What we have is one company saying that they've licensed the show from a company that claims to have the rights, and there are supposed court documents to back it up, and another company that fans claim own the rights, but appears to be doing nothing about it.

Let's look at a similar situation - Man from UNCLE. Anchor Bay issues a press release saying they're going to release the show on DVD, and THREE HOURS LATER they receive a letter from Warner Bros telling them to back down because they own the rights. Tsuburaya has had almost SIX MONTHS and I still don't think they've contacted BCI about it. If Ultraman is the holy grail to this company then why aren't they doing anything to protect it? The UNCLE situation is between two American companies, but surely a company in Japan could get something going within 6 months.

I don't know of anyone in this thread that has seen the original court documents which supposedly grant Chaiyo the home video rights which they licensed to BCI, and I'm not sure anyone here could be considered an expert on the situation, as no one seems to have direct access to the parties involved, along with the court document.

Gord

Re: Upcoming BCI Ultraman DVD is pretty suspicious . . .

Truth to tell, while Chaiyo might have the licensing rights to the series outside of Japan it amazes me that there has been no mention of whether or not Tsuburaya will appeal that judgement. If they did and it came out thhat they were appealing the judgment, BCI would have no choice but to halt production of the sets which could cost the company quite a bit of money if the judgment were overturned.

For the US, I think that Tsuburaya could fight the release here in the United States and actually win. Remember, Tsuburaya lost the case in Japan. If they were to file suit against Chaiyo in the United States where it was being released it would bring a full fledged fight against BCI.

Just think, if they would fight the release against BCI here in the United States. There stands a chance that they could win since US Courts would have to take the side of the original creator who owns the work. Chaiyo is just a company that co-produce some of the shows of the title.