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Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works - Page 5

post #121 of 234
7/14/06 at 9:14am

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Going back to June...no way AvP comes anywhere near Batman and Robin levels of hatred.

Not even a blip on that radar.
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post #122 of 234
7/14/06 at 9:32am

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Link?
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post #123 of 234
7/14/06 at 9:34am

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Mayer
Going back to June...no way AvP comes anywhere near Batman and Robin levels of hatred.

Not even a blip on that radar.

Exactly Chuck. It's quite amusing some of the criticisms of this film passed off as though they were facts.
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post #124 of 234
7/14/06 at 9:38am

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

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Looks like the sequel has been moved from August to December 21st! Can anybody tell me the logic of a CHRISTMAS release for this movie?

Insert "lump of coal" joke here.

This one could go either way. The directors are promising but the screenwriter, script and concept are worrisome.
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post #125 of 234
7/14/06 at 10:42am

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

As long as it's as entertaining as the first one, I'll be happy. I wish PT Anderson was returning as director as I think he did a fine job on the first.
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post #126 of 234
7/14/06 at 11:01am

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill GrandPre
"AvP" hatred evokes a much more passionately bitter response than any cinematic followup than I can think of.

Why? I can understand it not being some people's cup of tea. I can understand people not liking the director and therefore avoiding it like the plague. But what exactly were all these supposedly incredibly pissed off "young people" (lets face it no one over the age of 30 would give this title more than a passing thought, would they?) expecting from a film called Alien vs Predator ? Why is this title any different from say, Freddy vs Jason?

The last genuinely great Alien film was made 20 years ago, others might say 27 years ago. I was never expecting much from a film called Alien vs Predator, it's baffling and, sorry, hysterically funny that there may be kids out there still having sleepless nights because this wasn't the movie they were expecting. Hard to believe. I liked the movie, a reasonably good time passer , but it doesn't occupy my every waking thought as it evidently does some.
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post #127 of 234
7/14/06 at 12:09pm

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
Why? I can understand it not being some people's cup of tea. I can understand people not liking the director and therefore avoiding it like the plague. But what exactly were all these supposedly incredibly pissed off "young people" (lets face it no one over the age of 30 would give this title more than a passing thought, would they?) expecting from a film called Alien vs Predator ?

Because this is a movie that people waited for for over a decade yet their expectations weren't even that high (pretty much everyone just wanted an "Aliens" rehash with Predators thrown into the mix, plus there are tons of comics and novels that were well-received by fans that were completely ignored) and it still managed to disappoint them.

Go to any "AvP" related forum and you'll see an overwhelmingly-negative consensus on the quality of the previous film. Hell, look at these quotes from this very thread:

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I am as surprised as you are. I'm expecting it to be total crap, then I might be able to enjoy it this time.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/news/c...entryid=285685

Aiming for an August 2007 release.

I guess hitting rock bottom for both franchises wasn't enough. Now they have to dig.

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Yes. Now I can spread the hate across two movies!

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That serious "Overhate" is well earned.

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No such thing as overhate for a movie like AvP.

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It's easy to understand the hate. A hack director took a potential franchise goldmine and made a mindless, non-entertaining Bay-esque action flick without a single redeeming quality. Worse, he made up his own story instead of simply adapting one of the several good stories already out there.

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I usually hate sequels that totally ignore the previous entry, but I'd be all for it in this case.

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Maybe this time they'll make it a PG film!

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I thought there was a great redeeming feature of this film that ameliorates some of the "overhate."

And that is that most of the humans die off very quickly, which eliminated dialog for basically the rest of the film. In my opinion, this was an excellent choice for this film.

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Paul WS Anderson is movie cancer. Everything he touches immediately turns rotten. All of his films are crap. From Mortal Kombat to Alien vs Predator. Soldier sucked. Event Horizon sucked. All the Resident Evil films sucked. He is why Alien vs Predator is unwatchable.

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Haha, I agree with Aaron. Anderson, Boll, Sommers, and Bay shouldn't even be directing traffic on a one-way street. I'm sure they'd even manage to screw up that.

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Oh... I'm so excited!

AvP 2: This time..we try to fuck it up less!



Can't believe they're gonna do this... yeesh!

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AvP was a disappointment and I hope the sequel is much better (and that Anderson is nowhere near it if he wants to put out another AVP film).

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i'd be all over a sequel if it was a sequel in name only, and they started again and made a movie that was a faithful translation into film of the original aliens vs. predator comic.

it'll never happen, but i'm just sayin'.

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Does that mean it should just be thrown together and done shabily? Does that mean they shouldnt try to make a better movie than the last one?
There's lots of room for improvement here.

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In fact, until AVP came along, there wasn't a film in either series that I disliked. I wouldn't hesitate to say it's one of the worst films I've ever seen, and it disappoints me to no end that they opted to do this nonsense over a possible Alien 5.

I'm definitely not excited for a sequel, but the only place the quality can go from here is up.

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And some people just don't understand.

It's very obvious where the well-deserved hatred is coming from. This was THE Holy Grail of 'versus' movies and Paul W(ithout) S(kill) Anderson really just ruined it. People were beyond disappointed; they were and are justifiably angry. You can tell them to get a life if you want to, but some people are passionate about movies. I am. I so wanted a good Alien and Predator movie. AvP was not anywhere close.

I mean with all of the material out there, why did he choose to write his own? His script is nothing more than one endless string of cliches and uninspired, boring action sequences. There was plenty of good material out there to go with.

And don't you think this movie should have been above being "average" and "mildly entertaining"? Alien 1 and 2 and Predator were certainly better than that.

I don't know much about AvP 2, but hopefully they'll avoid using anyone from the first one -- especially Anderson -- and get a whole new creative force. Why Fox went with someone like Anderson in the first place is baffling. The guy has a terrible resume and shows he can't adapt material for s***.

Let's simply adapt one of the existing stories or commission a true writer; preferably one who has worked on an Alien and/or Predator title.

They should also avoid calling it AvP 2, although I doubt the marketing guys can resist whipping up something 'clever' for the acronym. They should just use a subtitle instead of a numeral to seperate it as best as can from the first one, as if the first one doesn't even exist.

I like how Tom Rothman automatically assumes the second one will "kick ass" although not only hasn't he read the script, he seemed unsure of it's status. Between this and the X3 fiasco, looks like they have some real geniuses at Fox.

Well, I think that's my definitive post.

and not one of those quotes is mine.

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Why is this title any different from say, Freddy vs Jason?

Well, "Freddy vs. Jason" was true to the spirit of both films and on a technical level that at the very least lived up to it's predecessors and in some cases exceeded it.

"Freddy vs. Jason" was a cheesy, fun crossover followup to two cheesy, fun series but "AvP" did no justice to it's predecessors.
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post #128 of 234
7/14/06 at 1:18pm

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

People are pretty die-hard about he Alien and Predator franchises, while other people may only have a passing interest. It's like that for any film. Take POTC, for example. I was never a die-hard fan of the first, so I enjoyed the second one; however, a lot of people I know who liked the original film a lot more than myself, felt disappointed. It's all about expectations. As a fan of the Alien and Predator franchises, I wanted something that could do justice to both series, and in my opinion, AVP failed big time.
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post #129 of 234
7/14/06 at 1:23pm

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tino
Link?

http://www.superherohype.com/news.php?id=4499
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post #130 of 234
7/14/06 at 1:24pm

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
it's baffling and, sorry, hysterically funny that there may be kids out there still having sleepless nights because this wasn't the movie they were expecting

BINGO!
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post #131 of 234
7/14/06 at 1:25pm

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Thanks David.
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post #132 of 234
7/14/06 at 1:30pm

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Christou

I was never expecting much from a film called Alien vs Predator, it's baffling and, sorry, hysterically funny that there may be kids out there still having sleepless nights because this wasn't the movie they were expecting.

While I know you're exaggerating things here, I don't see how anyone can find anyone's disappointment with any movie "baffling." As I said in my previous post, people have different expectations for movies, just as they have different opinions about them. Why shouldn't some people (myself included) expect a really good movie, no matter the premise? I mean, think about the premise of say, Alien, or Aliens. Based on the premise alone of those films, it's possible that one should expect nothing more than straight up, b-movie action flicks. But they weren't. So why should we hold AVP to such low standards?
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post #133 of 234
7/14/06 at 1:52pm

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Good point, Brett. The original two franchises are in a different league than AvP and they shouldn't be. AvP could have been taken more seriously as a project, IMO.
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post #134 of 234
7/14/06 at 1:52pm

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
I don't see how anyone can find anyone's disappointment with any movie "baffling

I personally don't find anyones disappointment baffling. What I do find baffling are some of the inexplicable comments and obsessive hatred leveled at this film and it's director. Beyond disappointment. Obsessive! Not just in this thread, but others.

Some of the comments leveled against the director were ridiculous such as he is "obviously a studio puppet and he sucks and gets to bang supermodels" or something to that effect. I don't remember who said it but I remember how silly it sounded. They sounded jealous. Seriously. How messed up is that?
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post #135 of 234
7/14/06 at 1:57pm

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Oh I agree, the hatred level can be a bit unhealthy. The same kind of thing was being argued over in the Star Wars DVD thread. I understand disappointment in a movie, and hating it even, but it should be kept within reason. I think the problem comes when some people are able to express their criticisms well, while others can't. And unfortunately, everyone ends up falling into the rabid fanboy category. Same thing happened over on that Star Wars thread.
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post #136 of 234
7/14/06 at 4:03pm

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettGallman
While I know you're exaggerating things here, I don't see how anyone can find anyone's disappointment with any movie "baffling."

Baffling in regards to this particular film, yes, let's face it this wasn't loosely based on great literature, a series of comic books for chrissakes. As for being constantly baffled by people weeping over this and that, believe me on the internet it's easy, in the real world, my world, my circle of friends, workmates, relatives what have you, there's mercifully no such thing as whinging and moaning over Star Wars, or Lucas, or being deeply disappointed with PJ's fabulous Lord of the Rings trilogy because it messed around a bit with the novel(s), that to me is beyond mere baffling and verges on the downright ludicrous.

Back to Alien vs Predator, people wanted to see Aliens aka Xenomorphs battle it out with Predators, that was the concepts raison d'être, what the fans wanted to see, in that respect it delivered didn't it?

One major thing that I don't like about P.Anderson the director is all his films must finish around the 90min mark, why? If Cameron can deliver a two hour plus Alien movie, why should one featuring Aliens & Predators be just over an hour long? I want to get my moneys worth, a full evenings entertainment, not walk back to the car and find the engine still warm. Maybe I've been spoilt by all these bloated lengthy films we've been getting lately, King Kong, LOTR, Munich, POTC even Superman Returns is 154mins long!
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post #137 of 234
7/14/06 at 4:12pm

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Yes, but you bring up a good point. It's based (pretty much in name only) on a series of comic books that were pretty damn popular and well received, while the film was not. A film delivering what's promised in the title does not mean we should be happy with it. In that case, everyone would love the Star Wars prequels, for example. The title said Star Wars, and that's what people got; however, not everyone liked them. Films are well received by people when they are well executed and conceived, something I felt AVP failed in doing. There are better reasons to get Aliens and Predators to fight, and just because they do fight in the movie doesn't mean I have to like it. And once again, when a certain fanbase is more passionate about something than you are (like in this case), you can expect a disconnect in expectations. It's no big deal, really.
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post #138 of 234
7/14/06 at 6:36pm

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidPla
Looks like the sequel has been moved from August to December 21st! Can anybody tell me the logic of a CHRISTMAS release for this movie?
There's generally always a horror/sci-fi release on Christmas. Why not this one?
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post #139 of 234
7/14/06 at 8:02pm

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm R
There's generally always a horror/sci-fi release on Christmas. Why not this one?

Other than "Scream", I can't think of another horror genre movie that was successful with a Christmas opening.
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post #140 of 234
7/14/06 at 9:43pm

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
Baffling in regards to this particular film, yes, let's face it this wasn't loosely based on great literature, a series of comic books for chrissakes.

I'm not much of a comic book reader but I resent your implied dismissal of the entire genre as inherently less than "great literature". Also, while the concept of pitting Alien versus Predator originated in a comic book the creatures themselves are cinematic in origin and thus the comparison to their previous cinematic appearances is completely valid.

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As for being constantly baffled by people weeping over this and that, believe me on the internet it's easy, in the real world, my world, my circle of friends, workmates, relatives what have you, there's mercifully no such thing as whinging and moaning over Star Wars, or Lucas, or being deeply disappointed with PJ's fabulous Lord of the Rings trilogy because it messed around a bit with the novel(s), that to me is beyond mere baffling and verges on the downright ludicrous.

But we're dealing with something here that is squarely aimed at fanboys. My mom probably wouldn't give a crap about whether "AvP" was good or bad but she doesn't care about the previous films, either.

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Back to Alien vs Predator, people wanted to see Aliens aka Xenomorphs battle it out with Predators, that was the concepts raison d'être, what the fans wanted to see, in that respect it delivered didn't it?

This is exactly the kind of mentality that allows movies like this to exist. I could break out the camcorder and put a Predator action figure in one hand and an Alien action figure in the other and just mash them together while making "battle" noises with my mouth for two solid hours and by your rationale that would satisfy anyone's desire to see an "Alien vs. Predator" film. The concept of Aliens battling Predators is literally demanded by the title itself and nobody should be impressed that Paul WS Anderson included scenes of that in the movie. What should impress people is whether or not he did it well, and most people would agree that he didn't do it well.

Quote:
One major thing that I don't like about P.Anderson the director is all his films must finish around the 90min mark, why? If Cameron can deliver a two hour plus Alien movie, why should one featuring Aliens & Predators be just over an hour long? I want to get my moneys worth, a full evenings entertainment, not walk back to the car and find the engine still warm. Maybe I've been spoilt by all these bloated lengthy films we've been getting lately, King Kong, LOTR, Munich, POTC even Superman Returns is 154mins long!

Maybe it's because his 90 minute movies seem like they last three hours. Wanna see something obscene? Go check out how long the end credits on "AvP" are. It will blow your mind.
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post #141 of 234
7/15/06 at 8:12am

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill GrandPre
I'm not much of a comic book reader but I resent your implied dismissal of the entire genre as inherently less than "great literature".

If you're not much of a comic book fan what do you care what I say about it? Comic books are for kids aren't they? How old are you Bill, 24, you're a kid. Probably still playing with Alien and Predator action figures in your parents attic? Think of me as an interested observer, an outsider.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill GrandPre
This is exactly the kind of mentality that allows movies like this to exist.

er no, it's the mentality of geeks and the fanboy fervor of young guys like you that allows movies like this to exist. And ironically people like me with only a peripheral interest in the subject matter get more enjoyment out of it than the never satisfied fans.
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post #142 of 234
7/15/06 at 9:13am

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
If you're not much of a comic book fan what do you care what I say about it? Comic books are for kids aren't they? How old are you Bill, 24, you're a kid. Probably still playing with Alien and Predator action figures in your parents attic? Think of me as an interested observer, an outsider

I've read the classics, I've read modern classics. I've read poems. I read comic books. I have found comics that are just as literate as any of the classics. Like every other entertainment, there are good ones and bad ones.

In regard to AvsP, like other films that come from comic source material, I'm talking about you "Leauge Of Extrodinary Gentelman", and you "Steel", and don't think your getting away "Punisher", if they stayed truer to the adapted works, they would of been better. The problem with AvsP, which I've only seen once during the theatrical run, so I might of missed something, was that it made no sense, at all, to either of the franchises it was based on. As much as I like monsters fighting, I still need some sort of sensical story base.

As far as a sequel, I couldn't believe they made a second Garfield movie. The first one looked to be horrific shit but parents well take their kids to anything. AvsP gets the sequel regardless of the quality of the first, as all the fan boys went expecting something.

I look forwad to discussing this more in the threda for AvsP3, as I know that everyone of you aguing and complaining are going to see AvsP2, and well give it the box office it needs to make it a trilogy.


My problem with AvsP isn't that it's a dumb monster fight flick, I like monster fight slicks, hell, I found "Robot Versus Aztec Mummy" pretty fun.
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post #143 of 234
7/15/06 at 9:40am

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Now Predator, is a Sci-Fi horror classic, this film really gave me the creeps when it came out in 1987, and that opening was cool with a low level rumbling sound setting the tone and the score cuts in with the title “Predator” followed by the spaceship approaching the earth and what appears to be something undocking from a “mother ship” the Predator has just a few days to kill!

Predator 2 wasn’t to bad, I like the zany reporter telling the people of L.A. there’s a blood thirsty mad man running around chopping heads off! Darn, now that is funny, insane, but quite comic!

AVP, what, do they think they where doing, hiding behind a dumb title like that, do they really expect people, to brainlessly come in crowds like lost sheep to see a "brain-dead load of bollocks" up on the screen for under 2 hours, no, that’s why I brought the DVD, just goes to show how brainless I was for buying that turkey!
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post #144 of 234
7/15/06 at 10:05am

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
Originally Posted by andySu
AVP, what, do they think they where doing, hiding behind a dumb title like that, do they really expect people, to brainlessly come in crowds like lost sheep to see a "brain-dead load of bollocks" up on the screen for under 2 hours, no, that’s why I brought the DVD, just goes to show how brainless I was for buying that turkey!


Andy, that almost made sense. So, did you like the film than? Audio good, surrounds up to par?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell G
My problem with AvsP isn't that it's a dumb monster fight flick, I like monster fight slicks, hell, I found "Robot Versus Aztec Mummy" pretty fun.

[looks around] Russell? Russell G? What the... it's a small world after all. Mexican Mummy films eh? Okay you wanted more than a dumb monster flick, you wanted something like Seven Samurai but with aliens, predators and Aztec mummies?
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post #145 of 234
7/15/06 at 10:28am

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Steve

From a sound point of view, I would expect the sound designers had a ball doing that film back in 1987, yes I do like it for the sound in this modernised world that we have created around us!

I just can’t help thinking why some sound designers would ever get involved with that “AVP” what a poor ole sausage it was!

You should do one for “Underworld” “Like the weapons of the previous century...we, too, would become obsolete. Pity, because I lived for it.” Now that is a tour de force ride with plenty of bite to give most home cinemas a trilling ride!

Predator is a different animal altogether, the first one had rawness in the sound, Predator 2, was more open, due to the “surroundings” weaponry fire will have a dryness to it in the desert or the jungle, in the busy built up areas like L.A. the sound will be much louder due to the sound reflecting of the hard parallel surfaces!

Steve, please keep our British bird Kate, as your signature, it’s foxy!
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post #146 of 234
7/15/06 at 11:01am

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

+1 on the "hated it" vote here. UGH!
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post #147 of 234
7/15/06 at 3:38pm

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman
Why the frack don't Cameron and Scott make a really good Alien 3 (a re-vamp to wipe the taste of Alien3 and Alien Resurrection out of our mouths) as they were planning on doing (Cameron writing and Scott directing supposedly) and get it OVER WITH before Sigourney Weaver is 70 and Scott is dead!

I think that was the plan, well, at least for Cameron and Scott to colaborate on a new Alien film. That pretty much got nixed when Cameron told fox that they(Cameron and Scott) wouldn't do another Alien film if they went ahead and did AvP. If I remember correctly, Cameron said that that type of film is made when the franchise has now where else to go.

It's a shame. We could've got a new Alien film from those two and instead we get AvP 1 and 2.
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post #148 of 234
7/15/06 at 6:02pm

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
Russell? Russell G? What the... it's a small world after all. Mexican Mummy films eh? Okay you wanted more than a dumb monster flick, you wanted something like Seven Samurai but with aliens, predators and Aztec mummies?

Do I EVER!! Steve, fly to hollywood and draw up a plan, you have discovered the key to a successful film!

I do however take a bit of offence to the blase' attitude you have to "Robot Vs. Aztec Mummy", which happens to be a gripping thriller featuring a controversial debate about the complications of values based upon the conflicting spiritual/science schools of thought, from the stance and form of the classical drawing room thriller to evocatively challenge and entertain the audience.

A little of this would of gone a long way to fleshing out AvsP, but unfortunately, the film makers decided to take a more base approach to the subject matter.
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post #149 of 234
7/16/06 at 3:21am

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Christou
If you're not much of a comic book fan what do you care what I say about it? Comic books are for kids aren't they? How old are you Bill, 24, you're a kid. Probably still playing with Alien and Predator action figures in your parents attic? Think of me as an interested observer, an outsider.



er no, it's the mentality of geeks and the fanboy fervor of young guys like you that allows movies like this to exist. And ironically people like me with only a peripheral interest in the subject matter get more enjoyment out of it than the never satisfied fans.


Excellent post Steve. I couldn't have said it better (or funnier) myself!
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post #150 of 234
7/16/06 at 4:03am

Re: Alien vs. Predator 2 in the works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tino
Excellent post Steve. I couldn't have said it better (or funnier) myself!



Thanks Tino, when I'm bored I pick a thread and have a bit of fun, protecting Alien vs Predator from rampant fanboy nastiness, someone has to!




Quote:
Originally Posted by andySu
Steve, please keep our British bird Kate, as your signature, it’s foxy!




Yeah Kate's great, I don't usually keep the same sig for so long, but I'll give her another week than send her packing. htf_images_smilies_smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell G
Do I EVER!! Steve, fly to hollywood and draw up a plan, you have discovered the key to a successful film!

I do however take a bit of offence to the blase' attitude you have to "Robot Vs. Aztec Mummy", which happens to be a gripping thriller featuring a controversial debate about the complications of values based upon the conflicting spiritual/science schools of thought, from the stance and form of the classical drawing room thriller to evocatively challenge and entertain the audience.

A little of this would of gone a long way to fleshing out AvsP, but unfortunately, the film makers decided to take a more base approach to the subject matter.



[strokes stubble] er... talking of Aztecs, I think there is a connection here Russell, wasn't there a flashback in this film showing Aztecs or Toltecs worshipping the Predators? Was it in the comics mythology? I'm sure there was a bit showing a Predator standing on top of an Aztec pyramid, or did I imagine it?
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