THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD) - Page 4

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

Oh, Ed...?!

Paul S., you must be Catholic (I've not heard the term "unpacking" outside of Catholic circles).

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

OMG I was even an altar boy! LOL.

(Having said that, I/we did use that word in the context of explaining/deconstructing something in literary theory classes . . .)

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

As I walked into a Hollywood Video today and saw the fancy new lenticular cover and checked the specs on the back I was stunned to see that they are still listing it as anamorphic.

Assuming that is is still not... How can FOX continue to do this? Are they indeed asleep at the switch or maybe they somehow... have not heard about it???

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

I too saw that yesterday, and for some reason it really peed me off. I rarely get annoyed at stuff, but when a "mistake" gets repeated umpteen times, I have to assume the repeat offender is either stupid or intentionally misleading...is there another option in this case? There's got to be a dozen versions of covers they've printed for R1, probably more if you count the bilingual Canadian ones. All wrong.

I really like this film, this non-anamorphic issue has gone on just a bit too long, I can't believe they can still get away with milking such a sub-standard presentation. Not that it looks bad for non-anamorphic by any means, but that's kinda 20th century... Does not everyone who wants this version own it yet? And the price was much higher than versions with the flat cover.

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

it has been stated that the menus are enhanced for widescreen, but not the movie.. which is probably why it still says that.

Jacob

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

Wow, anamorphic menus... sweet!

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

Just to let everyone know - The Abyss was shown in anamorphic 2.35 (or there abouts) on E4 in the UK last night.

Pointless news for anyone looking to record it I know. (I was annoyed as I tuned in half way through) But a UK TV showing of a film of this age usually indicates an upcoming new DVD release.

When I say 'usually' the examples that spring to mind in the past have been Superman and Supergirl, both of which were shown quite a bit on UK TV just before the announcments of a DVD release.

I know this is just all high hopes and Im still kicking myself for missing the anamorphic broadcast. But just thought people would like to know.

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

do you mean a hi def broadcast?

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

I imagine the Cameron canon, including THE ABYSS and TRUE LIES, will be revisited on DVD next year with the release of his new film, AVATAR.

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

Dave:

I think you're confusing the term "anamorphic" as it has been traditionally used in still photography and cinematography, on the one hand, with how it has (confusingly) become to be used in the DVD era regarding telecine.

In photography, the "anamorphic" "squeeze" is achieved with the use of a non-spherical lens. In telecine, the squeeze is achieved by the authoring house "encoding for 16x9 displays." Analogous processes but completely separate from one another.

I think you're coming at the topic from the (understandable, traditional photographic) perspective of referring to a 2.35 widescreen movie as "anamorphic." But you can shoot a 2.35 movie with a spherical lens. And you can shoot a 1.85 movie with an anamorphic lens (and then crop it).

The anamorphic we're clamoring for in this thread involves telecine. It has nothing to do with television broadcast, and can't be accomplished via the end consumer taping a broadcast.

Some more info: Anamorphic format - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Now, if it was an HD broadcast, that's a whole 'nother subject insofar as the highest ATSC HD standards are based upon a 1.78 frame not a 1.33 frame.)

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

Paul S., "anamorphic" widescreen broadcasts have been quite common in Europe for some time now, as PAL widescreen TVs have been widely available.

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

In what sense are you calling a movie broadcast "anamorphic"? Because it's a signal that preserves the 2.35-2.40 "Scope" widesceen aspect ratio of the film? If so, again, that's a different matter.

Widescreen does not equal "anamorphic" within the context of this thread. And even outside this context, calling any widescreen broadcast "anamorphic" is very problematic.

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

There's no need for the Cinematography 101, fellas. I didn't see the broadcast in question (damn!) but Dave is right.

Instead of cropping/opening up to 16:9, Channel 4 have recently starting showing 2.35 movies in their full aspect ratio, and through the UK's widescreen digital TV service they are presented just like on a anamorphic DVD (smaller borders top and bottom, stretched image, which is then squashed to its proper dimensions by a 16:9 display). I was awestruck when I realised that C4 have made this a permanent thing, and I can only hope that other broadcasters follow suit.

An anamorphic broadcast does not always mean a new version is arriving though, as these transfers are often produced on an ad hoc basis for whoever in TV land requests them. There have been anamorphic widescreen broadcasts of Kubrick's Lolita and Barry Lyndon, for example, but anamorphic DVDs are nowhere to be found.

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

I assume you're (largely) referring to me, Geoff, with your "Cinematography 101" comment. I would disagree that making those points wasn't necessary insofar as, at least until your post, it was not clear what exactly Dave was referring to.

And over here in NTSC land, the term "anamorphic" doesn't have currency within the broadcasting industry as far as I'm aware.

I'm also not clear on what you mean by "smaller borders top and bottom." If a 2.35 movie is broadcast widescreen traditionally/"non-anamorphically" at the proper aspect ratio, then it's my understanding that the black bars would be the same proportions when broadcast "anamorphically." There would just be better picture quality.

I'm also curious about what kind of image 4x3 set owners see during "anamorphic" broadcasts. Seems to me it won't be properly composed unless your cable service provides you with a set top box via which you tell the broadcaster what kind of set you have/image you should receive.

Out of curiousity, how do broadcasters alert their viewing audiences that a broadcast is "anamorphic"? Is it common knowledge this is being done or are lagrely just the "digerati" aware?

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

over here states side, we dont get anamorphic tv as paul mentioned.

so any explaination or cinematography 101 IS helpful to better understand what you're talking aout.

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

I didn't mean to sound snippy above, but given the high(er)-brow nature of this forum I assumed that most folk on here were aware of the use of the term 'anamorphic' with regard to home video/TV broadcasts.

Whenever I'm using the term 'anamorphic' above, I'm referring to the largely standard DVD practice of encoding a widescreen image for a 16:9 display to give a higher resolution. If you've got a widescreen DVD from Universal, flip it over and it'll most likely say 'anamorphic widescreen', but whatever you wanna call it, '16x9 enhanced', 'enhanced for widescreen TVs', that's what I mean. Right? That's how our digital TV is broadcast.

If you're still confused, I suggest seeking out the Star Wars 'original versions' thread to see plenty of other people banding the term 'anamorphic' about in the same context. And yes, I'm plenty aware of what 'anamorphic' means with regard to actual motion picture photography.

As for The Abyss, I'm watching the broadcast right now on digital TV, and it looks like a bona fide '16x9 enhanced' transfer in the original 2.35 ratio. Actually, it's pretty soft and may well be an upconvert, but if it is then it's the best one I've ever seen. Hell, I'm still amazed that we're now getting regular 2.35 broadcasts on network television over here.

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

Thank you, Tony.

I think many are indeed clear on what the term means WRT DVD telecine, but not WRT TV broadcasting in the United States.

AFAIK, that's not done here. And the ATSC standards obviate the need for 16x9 enhancement, in the same way that the concept doesn't apply to BD and HD DVD.

If indeed that is done in the U.K. (and I'm not questioning your saying that it is, but I do reiterate my question about how it is publicized--is there a Website I might go to to learn more?) then I am wondering how digital TV subscribers with a 4x3 set can receive those broadcasts with a properly composed image. What I think those viewers would be looking at is the equivalent of setting a DVD player's "TV shape" setting to 16x9 and then connecting it to a 4x3 set.

This is where you're losing me: to my understanding, you're conflating the discrete issues of anamorphic enhancement and aspect ratio. Also, "digital" does not equal "anamorphic" in the States. Are you saying all digital TV either is or at least is called anamorphic in the U.K.? And prior to digital it was not possible for you to see a movie broadcast in its original aspect ratio?

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

calling andrew markworthy for second opinion.

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

Sorry for the confusion fellas.
Thanks to Paul.S for going to the trouble ands thanks to Geoff for sorting out the confusion.

I should have specified 16x9 enhanced rather than just said 'anamorphic'. Im not sure about the US, but in the UK it's just a generalised term for 16x9 enhanced as Geoff explained above.


Not to talk for the whole of the UK, but 4x3 sets are vastly in the minority here and have been for quite a long time (easily over 5 years). Also we don't have separate widescreen and fullscreen DVD releases and a lot more of our TV content is broadcasted in 16x9 enhanced.

In terms of how my digital subscriber handles the whole 4x3, 16x9 situation - my sky box set up includes the option of being set for 4x3 or 16x9.
If I was to set it to output 16x9 but I had a 4x3 TV then yes it would be an improperly composed picture. What I would refer to as 'none anamorphic' - with larger black bars and a stretched vertically picture.

With Sky set to output 16x9 on a 16x9 set the picture is shown in 16x9 'enhanced anamorphic'.

With the exception of older shows and some commercials, theres not much content shown in 4x3 on UK TV. It's generally all 16x9 anamorphically enhanced.

Apologies again for the confusion. I assumed the term anamorphic when used to describe a DVD and/or a TV broadcast was in common use.

RE: The Abyss, I know it was wishful thinking to hope a widescreen showing may in some way indicate a potential anamorphic DVD/Blu-Ray reissue, but I would hope no one minds a thread bump for such an important film and the desperate need to have a 16x9 enhanced release.

On a personal level I feel the Special Edition is Cameron's finest film to date and will always be in my top favourite films of all time.

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

Sounds to me like you go into the setup menus for your Skybox receiver in much the same way you would with a DVD player.

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

In any case, Fox has to have this on their Blu-ray Disc schedule somewhere as it has always been a big seller for them as far as catalog titles go. That would mean a new transfer, and logic would suggest a new anamorphically enhanced DVD as well.

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

We can only hope. Christ, this is LONG overdue. Seems crazy to upgrade my non-anamorphic DVD to a Blu-Ray disc without an anamorphic DVD edition in between.

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

like it has been mentioned before.. probably release it when james cameron has his new movie out.. which is next year..

Jacob

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

Just a thought: next year is the 20th Anniversary of The Abyss, and with Cameron's new film due out Fox'd be crazy not to reissue it.

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

Is it true that there's not much HD broadcasting in Europe/the U.K.? If so, perhaps that's related to this prevalence of 16x9 enhanced broadcasts.

But of course it's a misnomer to call that improperly composed image "non-anamorphic." That of course is not what the image would look like if you played a non-anamorphic transfer on DVD on a 16x9 set (it would just be pillarboxed in addition to letterboxed more than it should.)

Yes, it is very "wishful thinking." Especially given the national broadcast standards differences we've highlighted in recent posts, I don't think what's going on with U.K. TV broadcasting has much if anything to do with whether Fox Home Entertainment on this side of the pond is actually pulling their head out regarding a new transfer of the film. A 16x9 enhanced broadcast is likely accomplished with the flick of a switch in an engineer's booth, a far cry from anamorphic telecine.

If by "schedule" you mean general radar screen, yeah. But as far as actually pursuing JC's participation and approval and inking a release date, I don't think the movie has been any more brisk of a seller now than it was, say, five years ago when Fox was insulting us with the release of the same (erroneously labeled anamorphic) transfer re-packaged in a (admittedly attractive) Digipak.

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

Sky now has multiple channels in HD, to receive them you need to upgrade from a standerd def set top box to a Sky HD set top box.
But I don't know how a supposed lack of HD broadcast would result in a prevalence of 16x9 enhanced broadcasts? I believe that standard def and HD would both be transmitted in 16x9 enhanced? The only edge HD has over SD is the increased resolution.

Correct, but as explained above I assumed it was a more widely used term. A shorthand if you will.
I was actually thinking about this the other night and just to clarify my mode of thought - I would also refer to a 'pillarboxed' 1.85 DVD transfer/broadcast as 'non-anamorphic'. But I don't know if that's just me?
While I understand the terminology for anamorphic in the film camera/lens and telecine sense, the scope ratio and/or anamorphic lens is not part of the equation to me.
In terms of DVD transfer and broadcast I would refer to a pillarboxed image be it 1.85, 2.35, 2.40 etc as non-anamorphic. Maybe it is just me

Agreed. However as mentioned above there have been other instances of multiple broadcasts of a film just prior to an announcement of a DVD release
I actually suspected home entertainment companies planning a DVD release may inform broadcasters ahead of schedule that they only have so many months to potentially broadcast older films that they may have in a vault as a DVD release is pending.
Of course this is all just supposition and once again wishful thinking on my part

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

Well, I've stopped waiting for the animorphic DVD. Now, I just want the Blu-ray disc.

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

Ditto... with Cameron commentary and cast commentary.
It could happen...

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

If, by "just [you]," you're acknowledging your own personal idiosyncrasies that don't necessarily comport with facts/reality, then yes, I agree it's "just you."

In my experience, no broadcaster purposefully broadcasts a pillarboxed widescreen image--that would be a ridiculous thing to do. So to compare/confuse/conflate, on the one hand, something that broadcasters don't do with, on the other, an improperly composed image that is not the result of anything to do with the broadacster's signal but rather an improper user setting by calling both "non-anamorphic" is very problematic. It further murkies an already semi-confusing topic for those trying to better understand what you mean (and is arguably indicative of a provincial understanding of the anamorphic issue).

YOU would call them both 16x9 enhanced because they're widescreen. But the reality is that neither is accurately described as such and as that term is understood in the DVD context. Again, it's not my understanding that widescreen U.S. broadcasts are squeezed at the source and unsqueezed by a consumer set top. They're simply broadcast in widescreen, lower resolution.

Most importantly, the concept of 16x9 enhancement has no currency whatsoever in the HD universe. The highest ATSC 1080 standards all contemplate a native 16x9 display. Again, it's why we don't call HD DVDs or Blu-ray Discs "16x9 enhanced" or "anamorphic": with the exception of what you've described regarding U.K. TV broadcasting, that terminology applies to images prepared for widescreen presentation on 4x3 displays only. Native 16x9 content displayed on 16x9 monitors is a horse of a different color entirely.

Re: THE ABYSS anamorphic release? (MERGED THREAD)

Paul, could you please humour me and give the Bits' anamorphic video guide a read at The Ultimate Guide to Anamorphic Widescreen DVD for Everyone! I was gonna launch into another didactic post, but there's no point as you'd pick it apart based on "provincial" misunderstandings.