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Keaton & Chaplin -- DVD vs Laserdisc - Page 2

post #31 of 40
11/20/05 at 1:17pm
A large part of how these PAL->NTSC conversions look depends on your player. In Canada, we often get these PAL-sourced transfers for European films. A screen cap means nothing as to how this will look in your home. I have absolutely no problem with them (except theoretically!) as my main player handles it excellently...many don't (check your player at Secrets... to see how it handles it), all are not even close to equal.

Which is not to say I excuse the cheapness. But let's face it, *every* disc looks different in different systems, to some degree, and many of the differences you can't just ISF-calibrate out.
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post #32 of 40
11/20/05 at 3:36pm
Quote:
It certainly makes sense to change the projection speed of a film, by analogy with the tempo of music; but in order for this effect to work as intended, the film has to be shot at a very constant speed.


It's just a matter of common sense. For example, when you show Birth of a Nation at 24fps, it looks like a Keystone Kops short. On the other hand, you might not want to speed correct a Keystone Kops short because faster speeds were OK.

If it looks inappropriate, fix it by correcting the speed.
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post #33 of 40
11/20/05 at 3:46pm
Quote:
Koch Lorber was able to obtain the PAL remaster of La Dolce Vita from Italy and had it properly converted to NTSC. It looks excellent.
All they needed to do is downgrade the resolution from 575 -> 480 lines. Nothing happens to the frames: all frames are there, sequentially, in both formats (all you have to do is add the proper logical "pull-down" bits to every other frame for NTSC).

It's the audio that has to be changed.


Cees
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post #34 of 40
11/20/05 at 4:34pm
I agree, there's no Earthly reason to do an actual PAL-NTSC video standard conversion, since the material wasn't shot in PAL video or at native 50 Hz but has been forced to 50 Hz. Unfortunately, that consideration apparently doesn't stop -- or perhaps even occur to -- some people.
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post #35 of 40
11/20/05 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Seriously, if a DVD and a LaserDisc are prepared from the same composite master [1" or D-2], or in the case of monochrome even from a component D-1 master, there is every a priori reason to expect that the LD will have the better image. Unless you have done actual comparisons on the actual titles, please don't say things like this.



I agree. And if we talk about a 1999 release the DVD can really have some compression problems that are, in my eyes, worse than analog problems.
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post #36 of 40
11/20/05 at 5:18pm
Are there such problems with the Kino Keaton discs? One reason I've resisted dropping the dough on this set is the secret fear a better one might come along soon, since it was a relatively early release.

Of course, waiting forever is stupid too I guess.
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post #37 of 40
11/20/05 at 7:42pm
The Kino Keatons are a mixed bag. They're kind of soft for the most part. However, Seven Chances looks almost brand new and it's progressive. The General and Steamboat Bill Jr. were improved for an Image/Film Preservation Associates double-feature utilizing remasters (both look incredible) and Alloy Orchestra scores.

However, I think nearly every film has a Robert Israel score (a few shorts have Gaylord Carter organ scores, like Cops).

It's probably too late considering that the 11-disc set still sells well, but a new box set utilizing brand new HD transfers for all films would be neat... especially since the majority of the transfers are 10+ years old by now. Problematic films like The Boat (has some serious nitrate decomposition in spots) and The Electric House (dupey surviving print) could be improved greatly with newer restoration software.
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post #38 of 40
11/21/05 at 8:06am
Most of the Kino Keatons were ports of the laserdiscs, but Shepard did upgrade a few that came up with superior elements after the LD were issued.

My problem with the PAL/NTSC conversions is not speed up for the most part due to the hand-cranking issues, but ghosting, where you see two frames at once, which looks terrible to my eye and makes things smeary where they should be crystal clear. I'd much rather watch the Image DVDs of the Chaplins, even though they haven't been spruced up with DVNR.

Kino's problem with the materials it gets from Brownlow and the BFI is that silents sell too few copies to put much expense into them; thus if there's a PAL master they're only too willing to go with that rather than do a new native NTSC transfer, even if it would look much better.
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post #39 of 40
11/21/05 at 9:15am
Quote:
Kino's problem with the materials it gets from Brownlow and the BFI is that silents sell too few copies to put much expense into them; thus if there's a PAL master they're only too willing to go with that rather than do a new native NTSC transfer, even if it would look much better.

I don't think Kino has released a single DVD from Photoplay or the BFI. Milestone has the Photoplay Productions remasters (Phantom of the Opera, The Blot, The Chess Player, etc.) as well as some BFI (Picadilly). Milestone apparently converts the PAL masters into progressive NTSC (at least on Phantom).
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post #40 of 40
11/21/05 at 10:08am
The PAL speedup isn't really a big deal for the silent Chaplins, true, but it hurts the sound films, i.e. LIMELIGHT. And the smearing due to the shoddy conversions is absolutely inexcusable.
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