A few words about... The Wizard of Oz

Thanks for the recommendation RAH, but this already was an automatic purchase even though I've owned it in just about every video medium. I'm really looking forward to it.

I am curious, how do you folks think 1:33 films should be handled on upcoming HD-DVD/Blu-ray discs? They will for the most part be viewed on 16:9 screens but if they are pillar boxed will we not see much of an increase in definition since it will be relegated to the center of the screen with a good amount of information left black....how do you people think the studios should format OAR 1:33 films in HD, pillar-box or 4:3 fullframe? In either case won't we be missing some definition on most HD sets with auto pillarboxing?

I'm sorry is this is a stupid or difficult to answer question but I have been wondering about it lately the more I see RAH say that until HD we won't truly be able to appreciate a good transfer on home video.

Even if there was an HD version coming out, I would think it would take years before it hits the video stores. I would rather enjoy this classic now then wait. After seeing the great work Warner did for Gone With The Wind plus Mr. Harris's recommendation, the decision to buy this film is clear.

I'm soooooo looking forward to it.

i have always wondered why anamorphic enhancement* was relegated to only widescreen dvds.

*AE dvd's sometimes have black bars on top and bottom because there is no information there and the bars are generated.

so why can't academy or 1:33.1 movies be *AE and have the bars on the side.

Mr. Harris,
About the colors on this new release....are they deep and rich, or lighter and more pastel? And the switch from sepia tone to Technicolor, is it a seemless (stencil printed) switch, like the last release was? And is the framing okay? Sorry, but this is my all-time fav (huge understatement).

Because that would be a waste of pixels. Standard Def DVDs in this part of the world have an image made up of 720x480 pixels. "Anamorphic enhancement" is simply a way of encoding the pixels for maximum active usage when played back on a 16x9 set. That is, an anamorphic transfer will use all 720x480 pixels actively on 16x9 screeen in a 1.78:1 frame. For transfers wider than 1.78:1, anamorphic enhancement still improves playback on 16x9 sets, but black bars are necessary to accomodate the image. For transfer narrower than 1.78:1, black bars on the side of anamorphic transfers can still result in better usage of active pixels.

As an image's width narrows, however, anamorphic enhancement stops increasing the number of active pixels as compared to a non-anamorphic in that ratio. Eventually, an image can become so narrow that the black bars on the sides become a waste of pixels that can better utilized in a non-anamorphic transfer. This barrier occurs somewhere around a 1.5:1 aspect ratio.

A standard 1.33:1 transfer, done non-anamorphically, will actively use every single pixel available within DVD's 720x480 space. There is no a single pixel anywhere that can be squeezed out. Making the transfer anamorphic will simply add black bars to the side, reducing the active resolution of the image. The image is no longer "enhanced." The image quality is decreased for everyone, no matter what kind of TV set you own, 4x3 or 16x9.

A non-anamorphic 1.33:1 transfer is the best and only acceptable way to present such a film on Standard Def DVD.

And a 1.33:1 transfer done in HD must have black bars on the sides, as the HD format requires 16x9 playback. And such a transfer, even with the black bars, will be of higher resolution than a Standard Def 4x3 transfer. A 1.33:1 HD transfer with black bars on the sides will have an active resolution of 1440x1080 (as opposed to the full available 1.78:1 resolution of 1920x1080). 1440x1080 will be a very noticeable improvement from 720x480.

DJ

It's going to be an expensive end of the year.

That answers my question, although I was also concerned about the use of grey bars as a standard in HD as grey is apparently more neutral and is supposed to prevent burn-in more effectively than black, centered at times with a very bright image. How is 1.33 material handled on the current HD tape format (as this might be a sign of things to come), black or grey?

No one should touch the original aspect ratio. Just because the film is 1.37:1, it doesn't mean that it won't benefit from HD. Both horizonal and vertical resolution is increased beyond our current television system (as well as colour reproduction, etc.).

If studios start reformatting 1.37:1 films to fit fully in a 16:9 frame, I think we will have to start another OAR campaign.

Mike

I wasn't suggesting that, as I thought my post clearly stated, I was just wondering if they would pillar-box the info in 16:9 or produce it 4:3 and let the TV itself handle the pillar boxing.

Is this even possible in the oncoming HD formats or is pillar-box the only way it can be done in the future HD formats? I would think people with projectors would complain if it was.

I believe that the inside of the door was photographed in Technicolor, but the original release prints took it one step further. The frames were hand tinted to effect a more seemless switch. This process was replicated on the last dvd release.
Does the framing look okay, especially during the opening credits?

AFAIK, HD has a native aspect ratio of 16:9. If I've followed what I've been told correctly, that means there isn't any anamorphic effect involved in HD. The picture is encoded that shape rather than being stretched out from a standard 4:3 frame to fill the wider screen. Video sources made in HD (such as the masters for the new Space:1999 transfer here in the UK) will have that aspect ratio. The 4:3 image will be centred and pillarboxed. An HD 4:3 image will still have a 1440x1080 resolution within the 1920x1080 frame. That's an enormous increase over SD.

As regards The Wizard Of Oz, I'm champing on the bit over this one - I'm after the three disc version which has turned out in the UK at least to be an HMV store exclusive. And the discovery of that took some friendly enquiries on the part of yours truly with Warner's UK PR company to uncover (as they had neglected to tell anybody).

I assumed that HD would have both AR's of 4:3 & 16:9 for the sake of redundancy & compatability for the older 4:3 HDTV models but clearly that isn't the case. There you go, thanks.

Thank you, Damin.
One question I've had since being a member was clearly defined (anamorphic transfer for full frame) & one question I've had for the last six months was technically clear (benefits for full frame in HD).

I don't know about the actual specs as they are at the moment, but technically, they could record a 4x3 image as 1920x1080, of course (which would be anamorphic), and have the projector/monitor/TV-set shrink (resize) it to 4x3.

In fact, one of my wishes for HD is a "ratio byte". The 1920x1080 image would always be filled totally, independent of the real ratio of the film, and the ratio byte would define the resizing necessary for proper display (up to 2.80:1 for Ben-Hur ).

(My other wish is a "frame duration byte": it would define the duration of the frames of the recording in, say, milliseconds. Thus we would get rid of the NTSC 3:2 pull-down and the PAL-speedup.) Even old 16 fps films would play perfectly.


Cees

That would really only benefit people with projectors and the old 4:3 models of HDTV's though, it would be a waste of time I guess.

I'm sorry for the OT stuff, it's just that every time I saw Mr. Harris say that only HD will show the true benefits of HD Transfers I had wanted to ask about how 1.33 films would be handled in any future 16:9 HD format...now I know, so..Wizard Of Oz...

If I may edit RAH:

Man I hope they pillarbox with black bars. Those grey bars are ugly. Sure they say grey bars are supposed to be safer but I have been watching plenty of 2:35 movies and still no burn in on my CRT RPTV.

besides about 75% (I guess) of HDTVs by 2006-2007 will be LCDs, DLPs, LCOS or some other new tech that does not have a problem with burn in.

I assume they will use black rather than grey, in over the air HD broadcasts of 2.31:1 material they use black so I would assume that they will continue using black with disc based 1.33 HD.....I assume.

There's 4X3 material on some 16X9-enhanced DVDs now (like on the 16X9 side of the That's Entertainment discs) where the image appears with black bars on the sides for widescreen TVs.

Haggai,

Yes, but that's bad, because then you lose resolution.


Cees

I can't speak for Haggai, but I don't think he is disagreeing with that point. Rather, I believe he is offering information indicative on the issue of the color of the bars that studios will use when presenting 1.33:1 transfers in HD.

DJ

Damin's right, all I meant to do was chime in on the fact that some standard-def DVDs already have black bars on the sides on 16X9 TVs, as opposed to gray bars.

Haggai (and Damin),

Perhaps I typed a bit hastily - sorry if it looked harsh. I realized that you knew that, and just like you: all I wanted to do was stress a point in this discussion, not "correct" you in any way.


Cees

This is a myth. The effect is acheived the way Mr. Harris describes it. In the old tv/vhs days...the effect was not seamless because the Kansas scenes were in pure black and white as opposed to sepia, so the careful recreation of the sepia door in Technicolor is meaningless. Returning the Kansas scenes to their original tint makes a perfect match.

One quick note to Mr. Harris concerning the combination printing that WAS used on the release prints of The Women. I don't believe the dvd actually uses the original b&w portion of the overlap shot (which leads me to believe that it is indeed lost) but instead uses a b&w still from later in the fashion show to fill in the frame. It's a neat effect, and far less jarring than the stark white of the old vhs and laser releases, but I have to believe that the original shot had the stage in color with the rest of the room in b&w.

Actually, the effect wasn't seemless on the 1998 prints. I was a projectionist, and I know. The effect was seemless on the last release, with the huge light reflection on the door toned down. I know the set was painted in sepia tones, but I understand that the original prints took it one step further.

I love reading Robert Harris's a few words about...especially when it centers around a film that I love. The Wizard Of Oz is a film that I have loved and cherish for many years. Can't wait for the dvd.

It will be an expensive year for dvds. :b