Blu-ray / HD DVD War...the end is near: - Page 3  

Thanks for starting this thread.
You could not read anything on this forum about HD-DVD w/o BD, poping up. Even if the thread was only about HD-DVD software.

Any word on BD software?

A new article from Video Business:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6266816.html

"Blu-ray wins, no war"

The only pseudo-reliable source that ever mentioned players might require an internet connection was a CNN article that was posted about a month back. Even there, it was only speculation and the article made a number of other claims the accuracy of which were questionable at best.

The article proceeded to cause a wave of "the sky is falling" reactions on this forum that I will admit I initially participated in. However, somewhere along the line it seems many members started taking this speculation (which reflecting on the article and some of its immediate response, was fairly unsubstantiated) as fact, when it's not.

I'm not saying the issue of internet connectivity should not be discussed, but there's been too many posts like this;



that read as if the requirement has been made official, when to my knowlege nothing the Blu-Ray group has released has made any mention that they were even considering it.

You can bet I'm against anything that requires an internet connection, but can people please watch the way they discuss this topic? Posts like the one quoted only serve to confuse and spread rumors.

This is truly exciting news!

One question: I have a CRT rear projection set that includes a DVI connector. Will I be able to adapt an HDMI connection to this television? I've read there are adapters for this, but I'm not sure if they'll work with Blu-Ray when it becomes available.

There are plenty of DVI connection adapters on the market that attach to the end of an HDMI cable. There are even cables that have an HDMI connecter on one end and a DVI connecter on the other. I see no reason why these wouldn't work with Blu-Ray.

If you have DVI without HDCP, studios may not permit the full-rez signal to pass. What is your model number? I'm sure there's information out there on whether it implements HDCP or not.

A Video Business article re: industry claims:

Questions of faith

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6266817.html

I own the Panasonic 47WX53. When I purchased it(back in '03), no one was really even talking about HDMI yet. At the time, DVI was supposed to be enough for compatibility with any future formats.

It is.
Your TV has DVI with HDCP. Most sets with DVI since 2001 have HDCP. The only difference is HDMI adds digital audio and greater bandwidth. All you need is a Blu-ray disc player (A Panny perhaps) and a DVI->HDMI cable, readily available in major stores.

Yeah, you're good to go, Larry.

Most TVs with DVI are HDCP compliant, but I didn't want to give you false hope if you had one of the exceptions.

I have to admit that with Paramount and seemingly Warner now signing onto BLU/RAY that the war is indeed over!!

What I found interesting about this whole war is that Blu-Ray is a better product because of it's competition with HD-DVD! Reason being is that Blu-Ray was using older compression technologies but HD-DVD's forward thinking compression technology-wise forced BLUE-RAY to up their game!!!

If Blu-Ray is the winner then it has alot to thank HD-DVD for it being a better product!

I can't recall if this article was linked to before, but I just noticed this little bit (emphasis mine):

It seems to me that if a retailer--particularly the vicious 5000-lb gorilla of retailers--was concerned about a format war, they'd be contacting both sides, not just one of the camps and a studio in that camp. Unless, of course, they were reading the writing on the wall.

Being devils advocate now that the format war is pretty much over, I hope the end result isn't two years of single layer bluray disks using mpeg2 compression. We need the better codecs and dual layer as soon as possible.

Thanks for the info, guys!

The studios will dictate on an individual basis which codec is used. I think Sony will use MPEG-2 for a significant amount of time, while others will move more quickly to VC-1 and H.264. Eventually (1-2 years) Sony will do so as well.

Point well taken, Kyle. I *HAD* heard that the internet connectivity was in the HD-DVD spec, and that was a major requirement placed by the studios before they will even look at HD. Admittedly, I have seen no such statement applied specifically to Blu Ray, but was assuming the worst. PeterTHX, I sincerely hope you are correct, and that this labels me as living proof of what happens when you A-S-S-U-M-E anything.......:b

The method is up in the air but the goal is not. Hollywoodwill be able to shut down your blu-ray player if they don't like what you are doing.
Whether they do it through a internet connection or not is not important but the goal is. Ultimately Hollywood wants to charge you for the right to tape
even mundane things like daily soap operas.

I do not believe that hi-def is that important to
do that. Most of my catalog is older titles and tv shows that were not shot in high-def so I think the
benefits will be limited. There are maybe 3 titles that I would even consider buying again. I see
where Congress may extend analog broadcasts until 2009 andthe reason is that they are nowhere near
meeting their goalof 85% of tvs being hi-def.
Apparently the marketplace isputting the brakes on
hi-def and may put the brakes on both formats.

I would be curious as to how they would accomplish this if the system is isolated (My theater is completely closed circuit, without so much as a pair of rabit ears). You are correct as to Hollywood's ultimate aim, but that was also their aim with DIVX, and we saw that Hollywood does not always get what Hollywood wants.

I think it has to be clear, right from the beginning, that these new formats, whatever shape they may take, are going to be more about stopping piracy, than the improvements in picture quality. The other important thing is money.

The studios and the industry want us to buy everything all over again. They want to control the way we watch and use their intellectual properties. After the sad state of the music industry, they don't want the same thing to happen to them. Understandable.

However impressive this technology may prove to be, I would urge everyone to exercise extreme caution when it comes to adopting this new technology.

Why did we even bother to spend hundreds of dollars on DVD, if we are only going to throw it away? This is not only economically unsound, but also an environmental hazard. The parts inside of DVD Players are probably just as toxic as computers.

For us to adopt this will simply be a nod to the big studios that we will accept any terms they dictate to us about the use of their product. I do not condone the pirating of their property, but they are also going to be stepping all over us. I for one, do not have any desire to adopt a format that could very well put me in a position where the $1,000.00 dollar DVD player I bought, just turned into a giant coaster.

Also, the movie industry is already rich beyond their dreams. What good will it do to put all of these draconian measures in place? It certainly won't benefit us. In fact, we will be paying good money to them for developing technologies that could make the DVD player, or DVD's we just bought into worthless junk.

And don't get the idea that the industry is going to stand up for us and give us new product. I seriously doubt that they will go the extra mile for us. They never have before and believe me, they have no intention of doing so now.

I personally want the whole story on all of this technology. Obviously anything can happen. Remember, they sit up there in the ivory tower and make decisions about what we spend our money on. And yet, we have no say in the matter. They put it on the shelf, we pick it up.

Up until now, DVD has been fine. I have no real complaints about DVD. The picture is great! What more do you need? I have no plans to soak money into this next format which, if they do indeed use these heavy duty anti-pirating measures, could very well cripple the industry and the format itself. It looks like a sinking ship from where I stand.

I just bought the Hitchcock Masterpiece Collection and I'm glad I did. My concern is that the next Hitchcock releases could very well be in the next format. And I want no part of it. My two cents. Cheers!

Then it would behoove people to vote with their dollars and hit Sony with the monetary 2 x 4 to say "Hey stupid! Use the better codec!" Perhaps the HD-DVD people can also persuade them to use the better codec as a way of saying they "unified" the formats.

I have to say this is the most bizarre argument against the new formats I have heard yet.

--
H

They are giving us new product. Every Tuesday, they release new product on DVD. Every Friday, new products are released in the theaters. HD releases will be a new product.



Look at the way Warner treats its classic releases. Look at the Lord of the Rings extended sets. Look at the Alien Quadrilogy. These are just a few examples of studio releases that went the extra mile.



For the studios, yes, that's their incentive. It's economics. They see a demand on our part for home video releases in HD. They're in a position to capitalize on that demand. We get our HD content, they make money. Everybody wins. If new products never got released, the economy would stagnate and that would be terrible for everyone.

As for piracy, I think the studios know that HD is not going to "stop" piracy. DVD will be around for a LONG time after HD releases are made available, and pirates will still be able to copy those. But new copyright protection technology has come along since DVD was first released that will make HD releases more secure. Can you blame the studios for wanting to implement it? It's a smart business decision, and as long as it doesn't invade my privacy or force me to hook up my player to a phone line, I don't have any problem with it.



Or we choose not to pick it up. Hence, we have a say.



I don't think anyone plans on throwing their DVDs away. As David mentioned, they'll still play in the new machines and I sure don't plan on rebuying all the titles I won. I don't plan on throwing my players away either. I'll find use for them. By the time they get thrown away, DVD will have been a dead format for a long while and the players will have stopped functioning. Stuff that stops working gets thrown out.



I'll refer you to David's post above. I don't NEED anything, but I very much WANT HD picture and higher fidelity sound formats and I'm willing to pay for it.



So you'd rather rebuy the titles again in standard def than in sparkling HD? You don't want to ever see Hitchcock's classics released in a superior format?

Allright, whatever floats your boat

Check out the viewpoints section at DVDFile.com

http://www.dvdfile.com/

Of course a better format is great, but at what price? If the titles are pirated and the Industry gets wind, all of my discs may no longer play on my new HD player. They will also want you to be connected to the internet. There goes your privacy. How much are we willing to sacrifice for this luxury?

I personally feel that HD DVDs will sell along the lines of Laserdisc vs. VHS. How many people are going to want to double dip like this?

Buyer Beware!

threerandot

Shaw,

Those DVDFile reports have been long known here.



ALL of that is just rumor and speculation. NONE of it has been confirmed by the Blu-Ray disc association, the DVD forum (though it seems like HD-DVD is just about dead by this point), or any of the studios.

You can bet that if those measures are put in place, not many people here will buy into them. The studios read this forum. I think they get the picture.

However, it does everyone a disservice to start discussing rumors as if they were confirmed, hard fact.

I feel like these threads are just going in circles...

But nothing else is confirmed either. Sure, the 1st gen HD players will accept SD's, but will the 2nd? What if they just didn't add that?

Also, do not forget that if the studios want to stop piracy, the ONLY way that they are going to do this is to make ALL FUTURE RELEASES in HD. Sure, they can make hybrids for a year or two, but when they want to pull the plug, they will, and we won't be able to stop them.

Glenn

Unlikely to happen since everyone knows that you could still play your collection of DVDs on the millions of DVD players already out there.

Then you don't have to buy it if you don't want to.



The studios are far more interested in making money than even stopping piracy. If they do indeed decide to "pull the plug," it won't be until HD market penetration has matched that of DVD, which won't be for a LONG time off. I suspect as long as there's a justifiable market for DVD, they'll cater to it.