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*** Official SERENITY Discussion Thread - Page 8

post #211 of 649
10/7/05 at 9:40pm
Quote:
if the second weekend holds on strongly, there's a good chance the movie has to at least break even.

I'd LOVE for that to happen but it's not at all realistic. Again, this movie has yet to make anywhere NEAR as much as it's first Friday. Hell, it's barely making as much as it's first TUESDAY. Theaters are pulling screens quickly. It was DOA, basically. It failed as a TV series, yes, partially because Fox fucked it over, but mostly because people just didn't want to watch it. And most people don't seem to want to watch Serenity, great reviews or not. I'm happy as hell that we got a movie in the first place ,and even happier that it's really damn good. But there's not going to be a 2nd weekend. The fans aren't as big a base as they've convinced themselves they are. And it's going to hit DVD by Christmas, and it MIGHT, if it's lucky, have a future as DTV sequels, something Universal seems to be pursuing rather heavily. But it's not going to be a success. It's going to end up with Land of the Dead results: Nice critical acclaim, bad box office, huge geek cache. That's not a bad thing.

What's funny is around the internet, I'm seeing people compare the hit to their fandom as an ironic little juxtaposition to Mal Reynold's predicament as a soldier in the battle of Serenity Valley. This is the "browncoats" Serenity Valley. it's an noble position. but in the end, they lose.
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post #212 of 649
10/7/05 at 9:48pm
I saw Serenity for the second time tonight. Fairly decent turnout - more than half the theater was full. Half the audience was comprised of women. A small number of kids too - these kids must have been as smart as their parents because there was no kiddie noises throughout.

The entire audience was quite respectful - all fans of the TV show? Or maybe the movie was so compelling they paid a great deal of attention to it.

Considering that Calgary supposedly has one of the highest concentrations of engineers in North America, maybe this was to be expected!

And I found it better the second time around - the sound wasn't overcooked, and in fact I found the soundtrack presentation nearly perfect. A lot of laughter in the right spots, unlike my first showing, where a lot of people had trouble hearing the dialog.

This is rapidly becoming one of my favorite SF movies of the last few years...
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post #213 of 649
10/7/05 at 10:05pm
I'm with you--I liked it more the 2nd time, too. 3rd viewing is going to be dedicated to really noticing the little easter eggs and in-jokes and references hidden within. I know I missed a bunch.
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post #214 of 649
10/8/05 at 5:52am
Quote:
Theaters are pulling screens quickly.
Say what?!

Well, I don't know how accurate Box Office Mojo is, but as of the seventh, they indicated Serenity showing on MORE screens (or should I say "screen").

Quote:
From: "Box Office Mojo"
To: spencejt
Subject: Theater Counts, October 7
Date: 6 Oct 2005 16:22:03 -0700
Received: from massmail2.forethought.net ([216.241.39.97]) by mc5-f28.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 6 Oct 2005 16:22:02 -0700
-------------------------
BOX OFFICE MOJO
THEATER COUNTS REPORT
PREPARED FOR: spencejt@hotmail.com
-------------------------

OCTOBER 7

Title (Distributor) / Theater Count (Change) / Week #

NEW

Wallace and Gromit: The Curse of the Were-Rabbit (DreamWorks) / 3,645

In Her Shoes (Fox) / 2,808

Two for the Money (Universal) / 2,388

Waiting (Lions Gate) / 1,652

The Gospel (Sony / Screen Gems) / 969

Good Night and Good Luck (Warner Independent) / 11

The Squid and the Whale (IDP) / 4

The Confederate States of America (IFC) / 2

EXPANDING

Serenity (Universal) / 2,189 (+1) / 2

The Greatest Game Ever Played (Buena Vista) / 1,810 (+796) / 2

Proof (Miramax) / 517 (+277) / 4

War of the Worlds (Paramount) / 245 (+172) / 15

Everything Is Illuminated (Warner Independent) / 85 (+25) / 4

Separate Lies (Fox Searchlight) / 59 (+34) / 4

Me and You and Everyone We Know (IFC) / 31 (+8) / 17

MirrorMask (IDP) / 24 (+6) / 2

The Edukators (IFC) / 10 (+7) / 12

NO CHANGE

Into the Blue (Sony) / 2,789 / 2

A History of Violence (New Line) / 1,340 / 3

Oliver Twist (Sony) / 779 / 3

Little Manhattan (Fox) / 2 / 2

DECLINING

Flightplan (Buena Vista) / 3,323 (-101) / 3

The Exorcism of Emily Rose (Sony / Screen Gems) / 1,827 (-1177) / 5

The 40-Year-Old Virgin (Universal) / 1,137 (-1015) / 8

Roll Bounce (Fox Searchlight) / 888 (-773) / 3

The Constant Gardener (Focus Features) / 469 (-535) / 6

An Unfinished Life (Miramax) / 428 (-377) / 5

Wedding Crashers (New Line) / 360 (-316) / 13

Transporter 2 (Fox) / 318 (-738) / 6

Cry Wolf (Rogue Pictures) / 258 (-780) / 4

The Skeleton Key (Universal) / 155 (-117) / 9

Four Brothers (Paramount) / 154 (-301) / 9

Broken Flowers (Focus Features) / 152 (-70) / 10

The Brothers Grimm (Dimension) / 103 (-264) / 7

The Man (New Line) / 58 (-176) / 5

The Thing About My Folks (Picturehouse) / 32 (-81) / 4

Mad Hot Ballroom (Paramount Classics) / 20 (-11) / 22

Underclassman (Miramax) / 16 (-48) / 6

The Adventures of Shark Boy and Lava Girl in 3D (Dimension) / 12 (-6) / 18

Hustle and Flow (Paramount Classics) / 9 (-13) / 12

The Baxter (IFC) / 7 (-3) / 7

The Great Raid (Miramax) / 6 (-41) / 9

Venom (Dimension) / 5 (-27) / 4

Apres Vous (Paramount Classics) / 3 (-3) / 19

Asylum (Paramount Classics) / 3 (-10) / 9

Daltry Calhoun (Miramax) / 1 (-1) / 3

ESTIMATES FOR OCTOBER 14

The Fog (Sony / Revolution) / 2,700+

Elizabethtown (Paramount) / 2,500

Domino (New Line) / 2,000

Separate Lies (Fox Searchlight) / 100


The full list of theater counts:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/counts/

Test your predicting prowess in the Box Office Derby:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/games/

-------------------------
Configure your box office reports at:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/users/
So, positive numbers are better than negative eh? Of course it faces competition from Wallace & Gromit and the other one I can't recall.

Will it reach prior numbers, probably not. Am I hopefull that it will hold strong? HELL YES!

Nothing is over until WE say it is! My co-worker loaned out his Firefly disk to his brother who held viewing parties and now has twenty co-workers going to see Serenity this weekend!

I myself have purchased four tickets and have given them to neighbors. I've offered up a challenge to select co-workers to go and if they don't enjoy themselves, I'll pay them back for their tickets!

It's a fun movie, not great, but probably the best sci-fi adventure offering at least in the past year! I enjoyed it far better than anything Lucasfilm has released in the past decade.

I have faith in the fans, and in word of mouth. I have faith and hope that this movie will at least hold a place in the top four this weekend.

BROWNCOATS (and Joss Whedon fan boys) UNITE!

...am I crazy? Did I dream about a weekend with Inara and Kaylee?

HELL YEAH!

SEMPER FI!
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post #215 of 649
10/8/05 at 11:41am
I went to see "Serenity" last weekend knowing barely anything about "Firefly" and had a blast. Now I'm trying to get my hands on a copy of the series.

But as I read through this thread, I wonder.. why make comparisons or slam "Star Wars" in the process of praising this film?

Let it stand on it's own merits. It doesn't have to be propped up by whatever opinions you have of another film.
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post #216 of 649
10/8/05 at 12:13pm
Quote:
But as I read through this thread, I wonder.. why make comparisons or slam "Star Wars" in the process of praising this film?
Because it's sorta the standard for this type of stories?

Comparisons are normal.

--
H
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post #217 of 649
10/8/05 at 1:37pm
Quote:
what did I say that merited that snide response?
Your assertion that the only audience available to the movie was the guaranteed one, which you immediately repeat in the second half of:
Quote:
It was obvious that the movie had a small cult audience guarenteed to it and that a lot of moviegoers would be oblivious and skip it.
Obvious to whom? Why were they oblivious? And again:

Quote:
This is not like when the X-Files and South Park movies came out, those shows were a lot more well-known in the mainstream. Mostly only Joss fans realize he had a third show in his repetoire
Why not market the movie to people that haven't seen the show? What do movie publicity people do when the movie is not based on a TV show? What should movie publicity people do when the movie is based on a TV show very few people watched?

Quote:
Titanic made about 1/8th it'd budget opening week, it ended up making three times it's cost.
It made nine times its production cost worldwide, but it's clearly the exception. You missed my point about The Matrix: there was no TV show. It did solid, but unspectacular business on opening weekend. Actually pretty good for a unknown non-sequel. Now there may be dozens of reasons why it did about three times as well as Serenity, but it is possible to make money without a built-in audience. And once more with feeling:

Quote:
People forget that Joss fans are a loyal batch who will go back to see Serenity a number of times, and tell all their friends to go see it.
Is it possible that someone who just happened to like the movie and hasn't drunk the Joss kool-aid might see it again and/or mention it to their friends? I hope so.

Just to be clear: why do you seem satisfied that only Joss fans see this movie?
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post #218 of 649
10/8/05 at 1:50pm
Saw it a second time today and aside from the bulb blowing mid-way through, it was an engaging experience. I was able to understand & enjoy more of the dialogue and get a better sense of the moral crisis that Mal was in; his loss of - or apparently erosion of - faith (or what the film calls "belief"). This film really held up. I mean I don't know that Joss could write another film that would have both such a true moral plot going on inside the main character and simultaneously have a really big concept plot going on in the world (or "worlds" as the Operative noted) as he did here.

I am also more sure now that this film also serves as an introduction to the series as much as it serves as a mid-way bridge point for further adventures.

Whether this will go "Enterprise" and vanish for no good reason, or if it will continue in the form of a mini-series or movie, I don't know. But if it has to serve as a conclusion, it does the series proud.

The tv series ended on a strange point that let the characters remain true in our hearts and so does the film.

I'd like more adventures.

I want more River. She starts out as such an enigma, and now even at the end of the film we have yet to meet the her that is "ok". Definitely like the few moments of lucidity she has. And Mal found what he was looking for too. All around praise to this film.
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post #219 of 649
10/8/05 at 1:59pm
Ah, I was just thinking about how geeky we are that we on this board (and other boards) are all doing mathematical projections of whether the film will manage to foster a sequel or not, and I am remembering Mal's final lines in the film, which he says to River.

I dont have the exact text, but he says all the math in the verse is secondary to a good pilot; it is love that keeps a ship aloft.
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post #220 of 649
10/8/05 at 3:54pm
ooooooooof. Friday returns in.

Serenity dropped to 9th. It made about 1.5 million.

damn.
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post #221 of 649
10/8/05 at 3:57pm
Kind of surprised to hear that, if only because the matinee I went to today was packed pretty full. Must not have been too representative a sample!
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post #222 of 649
10/8/05 at 4:02pm
I'm surprised too. I didn't think it'd drop that far.

I'm gonna have to hurry if I wanna see this thing in theaters again. I'm gonna check out History of Violence tomorrow, and probably "Waiting" next weekend. I hope that by weekend-after-next, Serenity is still even in theaters.

My hope is that the DVD numbers are good, and that Universal gives Whedon and Mr. Minear a call sometime in the middle of next year about a DTV sequel.
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post #223 of 649
10/8/05 at 6:26pm
i think people should calm down about the numbers. i remember when lethal weapon and a decade later Austin powers came out the reason those movies had sequels is due to those films being big hits on video and cable.serenity is an instant classic and if they don't make another one we still have firefly on dvd.
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post #224 of 649
10/8/05 at 7:25pm
Where are people getting these half-weekend (not counting the Monday holiday either) numbers? Tomatos still only shows actual numbers from last week, and BoxOfficeMojo only shows "projections" for yesterday.

Even if the numbers are accurate (which I kind of doubt since it's only 10pm on the east coast, meaning the late shows for tonight for three out of four time zones haven't even been sold nor reported in to the studios yet), I agree that there is more to it than the box office.

If box office were all that mattered, there'd be no Crow sequels, The Prophecy sequels, Highlander sequels and spin-offs, RoboCop spin-offs, and on and on. (Mind you I wouldn't want some no-name writers/directors to take over Whedon's excellent
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post #225 of 649
10/8/05 at 9:13pm
projections are accurate, typically, within 2 or 3 percent.
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post #226 of 649
10/8/05 at 9:55pm
We're nervous because Universal publicly stated that without an gross of 80 million worldwide there'd be no sequel consideration. In reality there's always the chance that video sales and the like could push Universal into doing some kind of continuation... we're just holding out for a strong gross because it'll definitely push things in that direction.
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post #227 of 649
10/8/05 at 10:56pm
Quote:
Why not market the movie to people that haven't seen the show? What do movie publicity people do when the movie is not based on a TV show? What should movie publicity people do when the movie is based on a TV show very few people watched?


Why wasn't The X-Files:Fight The Future marketed to people who weren't already fans of the show? Why wasn't South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut marketed to people who weren't already fans of the show? Hell, there's been god knows how many Star Trek movies and it's been satisfactory that it was Trekkies who were the prime audience for it, yet it's such a bad thing to assume/point out that Firefly fans/Whedonites are the people most likely to see it?
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post #228 of 649
10/8/05 at 11:02pm
Both X-Files and South Park were very successful shows. Firefly got canceled. Difference. And Both X-Files and South Park ended up in the 60-80 million domestic range.

For all the talk in the advertisements about Firefly/Serenity being a cult classic--these are cult classic numbers. People forget that cult classics typically DON'T make any money. hence the "cult" part.

At least we got a really good movie out of it. Most "cult classics" suck, honestly.
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post #229 of 649
10/9/05 at 10:27am
The following is only the estimates, final numbers Monday.

From BoxOfficeMojo:
Quote:
Domestic: $17,594,000
+ Overseas: $1,103,054

-----------------------

= Worldwide: $18,697,054

Not bad!

As far as the DVD is concerned, ... I've read that as an overall AVG., ... approx. 80% of the DVD sales will go to Universal Studio through their home entertainment divisions.

Phil
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post #230 of 649
10/9/05 at 12:21pm
Not sure if these release dates are still current. And all the countries except the US get the better poster art, so that should help.

I wonder how they'll tweak the dialogue for France (or for any of them, actually). Should be interesting! (Not that I speak any of these languages).

Australia 29 September 2005
USA 30 September 2005
Portugal 6 October 2005
UK 7 October 2005
Russia 13 October 2005
Israel 18 October 2005 (Icon Film Festival)
France 19 October 2005
Switzerland 19 October 2005 (French speaking region)
Spain 21 October 2005
Italy 28 October 2005
Switzerland 28 October 2005 (Italian speaking region)
Belgium 9 November 2005
New Zealand 10 November 2005
Iceland 11 November 2005
Mexico 11 November 2005
Sweden 11 November 2005
Netherlands 17 November 2005
Denmark 18 November 2005
Estonia 18 November 2005
Czech Republic 24 November 2005
Germany 24 November 2005
Hungary 24 November 2005
Switzerland 24 November 2005 (German speaking region)
Argentina 1 December 2005
Finland 2 December 2005
Norway 2 December 2005
Turkey 2 December 2005
Peru 29 December 2005
Malaysia 19 January 2006
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post #231 of 649
10/9/05 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Well, I'm certainly not going to get into an argument about a show I don't care about. Although I stand by my comments, I also respect yours as a fan of the show. This thread is supposed to be about Serenity/Firefly.


And if you really want to start comparing things and saying one is like the other, X-files owes a lot of it's premise to the original Night Stalker series. Every show owes it's existence to some other idea. Look at all the shows that got greenlit this season because of Lost.
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post #232 of 649
10/9/05 at 3:29pm
Quote:
X-files owes a lot of it's premise to the original Night Stalker series


Yes, but it didn't rip it off. Difference being X-Files creator Chris Carter actually acknowledges the influence of the Night Stalker and cited it as the main inspiration for the X-Files.
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post #233 of 649
10/9/05 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Yes, but it didn't rip it off. Difference being X-Files creator Chris Carter actually acknowledges the influence of the Night Stalker and cited it as the main inspiration for the X-Files.


I'v never seen Night Stalker and can't comment on its relation to X-files. That being said, Acknowledgment of influence does not excuse plagiarism. The directors of The Matrix have "acknowledged the influence" of Ghost in the Shell on their film, it's still a blatant rip off.
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post #234 of 649
10/9/05 at 4:01pm
I dunno. To me, what makes a rip-off a rip-off is the concealing of the original source. Admitting what you're taking from BEFORE you take it isn't ripping it off, in and of itself. On the flip, though, if you admit what you're taking, and then you implement it totally artlessly, yeah, that can be considered ripping it off, even if you paid dues to the original material.

but I don't think either X-Files or Matrix implemented their influences artlessly, so it's not really a ripoff in those instances.
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post #235 of 649
10/9/05 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Acknowledgment of influence does not excuse plagiarism


Plagiarism does not come into play when talking about the these two shows. Both had different styles. The core element of a lone male character who investigates the paranormal (who everyone else thinks is crazy) was the main influence that carried over. Carter cited the original show as his favorite as a kid and an inspiration. Big difference between that and ripping something off with no acknowledgment.
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post #236 of 649
10/9/05 at 4:54pm
just saw this movie. i thought it was pretty good. i wasn't crazy about the camera work (too much handheld). i was a fan of the series and i guess the movie was pretty much what i'd expected. i was hoping for a much grander story with River, but the one i got seemed a bit contrived, like Joss didn't have this origin/explanation in mind from the beginning.
the funniest line for me was Mal saying 'if anything happens to me, anything at all, you take this ship and you come and rescue me'
in my humble opinion, i think the advertising should have focused more on the humour, but that's just me. also, that line in the trailer, when Jayne says he wants to run the ship, and Mal says 'Well, you can't" - isn't that straight from the series? sorry if this has already been asked.
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post #237 of 649
10/9/05 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Yes, but it didn't rip it off. Difference being X-Files creator Chris Carter actually acknowledges the influence of the Night Stalker and cited it as the main inspiration for the X-Files.


Buffy was a carbon copy of X-Files, but X-Files and Kolchak are completely separate entities all because Chris Carter said that it was influenced by it? You're obviously biased against Buffy The Vampire Slayer when you say it's a ripoff of X-Files (despite very little in common), but X-Files didn't do anything with Night Stalker, a show which actually was VERY similar in content and storylines.

Okay, maybe it's true X-Files (once again before you get defensive over the show, I happen to like that show, get it? got it? good!) opened the door for Buffy, Angel, Supernatural, etc... to get green-lit, but content-wise, there's nothing similar between Buffy and X-Files. The success of CSI may have opened the door for Six Feet Under, but SFU is definately not a CSI ripoff, much like Buffy is not an X-Files ripoff. Most Buffy fans will state Dark Shadows was probably the bigger influence.
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post #238 of 649
10/9/05 at 6:16pm
Quote:
Buffy was a carbon copy of X-Files, but X-Files and Kolchak are completely separate entities all because Chris Carter said that it was influenced by it?


Nope, re-read my posts...I never said that, not once. I merely said Buffy borrowed from X-Files format and structure and that there was influence there (but not in terms of storyline). You argument is severly flawed because you assumed otherwise.

Like I said, I don't want to argue about a show I could care less about. And who's the one being definsive? Not me...
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post #239 of 649
10/9/05 at 6:25pm
Thread Starter 
Let's keep this thread on Serenity/Firefly, and not other TV shows. If you feel strong about that topic, start a thread in the TV area, otherwise, please drop it.
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post #240 of 649
10/9/05 at 8:43pm
I just saw Serenity today, having never seen Firefly before. The main problem I had was that there were so many characters that I felt the film glossed over most of them so much so that I didn't really identify with any of them, aside from Mal and perhaps River (I must say the actress who played Kaylee was pretty easy on the eyes, though :b ). I did like the introduction to the crew of the Serenity using one continuous shot. The wisecracks were a bit much at times, but since it's typical Joss Whedon, I let it slide.
All in all, I thought it was an okay film, but I think I would have enjoyed it more if I had seen Firefly first.


Quote:
But as I read through this thread, I wonder.. why make comparisons or slam "Star Wars" in the process of praising this film?

Let it stand on it's own merits. It doesn't have to be propped up by whatever opinions you have of another film.

I agree. Some film critics have been guilty of doing this as well.
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