The Complete "The Lord of the Rings: score - with 5.1 DVD - Page 5

Lance, thanks! Lots of good info there!

I used to own a Pio 656A too (or it may have been a 565A(?), not sure). The 540D does DVD-A, but not SACD, so my SACD discs are useless right now.

I did not know about the different ways they mix 5.1 recordings.


That would make sense, except why isn't my receiver mixing the cc on the FOTR DVD-A into front mix, like it does with my other DVD-As? And if the 540D could not redirect the cc, why does the lower-level, reverby cc that you describe only appear once the cc setting on the 540D is set to off?

So, you seem to be saying that it's likely my system that is the problem and not the disc, so do you have any idea how I can get it to sound right? I can't add a center speaker because I'd need to spend more than I can afford to get something to blend in well with my Magnepan MG12s.

I think it's because you're then hearing the phantom center created by what lead vocal mix elements the engineer panned mildly to L and R channel.

I don't want to speak for Lance but I'm not sure that what he's saying is that you have a hardware problem.

I think this is a situation in which the problematics of the particular mix characteristics of the software are revealed by your hardware. In other words, your not having a center channel presents some rare but not unique playback issues.

-p

Thanks Paul. Can I also ask, are a/v receivers able to downmix signals received by their 5.1 direct inputs? If so, is it better for the receiver to do the downmixing, or the DVD-A player?


But why do I not hear that same phantom center when the cc setting is small or large on the 540D?


So you don't think there's any cause for returning the disc? Is it an issue I just have to live with?

I don't think it or the 540D actually IS mixing the hi-res cc signals into the fronts (very few receivers have b.m. for their 5.1 inputs & they are usually in the $800+ range).

I was writing too much for my own good; Paul said what I forgot to write myself:

Yep. When my center channel speaker is physically disconnected, what I then hear when the Simple Minds and Doors discs are playing is just what Paul wrote above (the Doors disc has almost nothing in the left/right, so the music is really messed up-it's almost an acapella track).

Also keep in mind the cc can be used for more than lead vocals: on the Simple Minds disc there is usually a synthesizer in there too; on the Doors disc a bass guitar is prominently featured. And on Beck's Guero dvd-audio, on the song "Hell Yes" a female vocalist says the line "please enjoy" through only the cc-without this line the chorus loses a chunk of its meaning (this kind of thing also happens on Crystal Method's Legion Of Boom).

So (writing slower now ):

Since you don't use a center channel speaker AND if your 540D really does not redirect the center signal, on many discs those mix elements Paul speaks of that are in the left/right mains are giving you the illusion that the center channel is being redirected.

And: since many discs for all practical purposes don't use the center channel at all, then you will definitely not notice the lack of cc redirection.

The only way I know of to test for the redirection is to hook up the player's center output to the receiver, then hook up a speaker to the receiver. Then start playing various discs and listening to the center speaker to see what's happening there.

Lastly: and don't forget the Dolby/DTS option if you want to use b.m. for the surround mixes. Most of the players I've messed with have a dvd-video playback option somewhere in their set-up menu after a dvd-audio disc has already been loaded. This will enable you to access the disc's Dolby and/or DTS option.

Hi Lance,

I will experiment with isolating the cc tonight and report back on what I find.

Per what Lance posted, there is no downmix algorithm for DVD-A. It's not like Dolby Digital (wherein if you play back a 5.1 DD mix on a two channel rig, the left and right surround and center channel information gets collapsed into main L and R . . . and the LFE gets tossed).

Anybody finding a really good deal on this title yet (as in, less than $40)? May have to wait until a used copy shows up on Amazon Marketplace.

-p

Thanks Paul, so I know that any changes in the sound must be down to the 540D settings. I did a few tests with isolating the cc last night, but need to do more tonight.

I got my copy of the FOTR set from Barnes and Noble for under $40 I believe, though over that with shipping added on. Still a good deal.

Okay, so I hooked up my cheapo center speaker that I never use for movies because the MG12s phantom center sounds much better.

What I found is that there *is* a working cc signal on the FOTR disc, but that the 540D can't seem to mix it properly into the fronts when the center is set to off.

The same is true for A.I., the voice is not clear when the center is mixed with the fronts. However, unlike with FOTR, there *is* a good phantom center when the fronts play their own signal with the cc left out entirely (i.e. center set to small, but no center speaker hooked up). But I soon found out that by listening to A.I. this way I had been missing out on unique sounds contained only in the cc signal.

So, hooking up a center speaker means that FOTR plays properly (though Aniron still seems more echoey than it does on the old CD version - I'd like to know if others have found this), and also means A.I. sounds better than it did. The center speaker is not great and doesn't blend that well with the MG12s, but it is definitely needed for DVD-A.

Anyway, thanks for the help guys.

Sorry to hear your player does this-why don't the manufacturers tell us this stuff up front?

Yeah, it would have helped if I'd known from the start that a center was essential with this player.

Still, other than the suspicious quality of the vocal mix, listening to the DVD-A in full yesterday was very enjoyable indeed. I loved the way the choral sounds filled the whole room.

Does anybody know where to go to find out how well this recording has sold so far, or does anybody have that information already? I'm hoping it sold well enough that the other two will definitely come out, but I know several people who were well satisified with the first, abridged copy of the soundtrack and did not pop for this one. Too bad--the Flaming Red Hair bits alone made it worth it for me.

Patty, I expect this disc to be a slow-burner, with some fans of the soundtrack saving up for it or waiting for it to fall in price.

Can I ask, have you listened to the DVD-A mix, and if so what is your opinion on the strength/clarity of the vocals?

Nick I found the choral vocals fine well blended. The snippets with Gandalf, Bilbo, and Merry/Pippin come across a bit harsh - which is to be expected as they seem presented as how they were recorded during filming.

Is there anything in particular you are noticing?

Hi Lou, the choral vocals are very good. It's some of the solo voices, especially Aniron, that don't sound as forward and clear as they do on the highlights CD.

I just listened to the DVD-A today, and on my sound system the vocals (particularly Aniron) are very poorly mixed with the sound--I can hardly hear Enya at all. There was another one (man, I'm old, can't remember which one it was!) that was particularly bad, too. But the Merry/Pippin song and the Aragorn (Strider) sound were well mixed. All in all, I'm glad to have the highlights CD, too. This is definitely a case where it's necessary to keep both.

I want this, I really do. I love the movies and the 3 soundtracks I own. I was excited for a 5.1 hi-rez mix of the score since it was first rumored ever so long ago. But... $60... That's just alot for me to spend on this right now.

got this a few week ago. this is awesome. i have very few DVD-Audio&SACD, this is one of the better sounding ones.

first of all the packaging is awesome.

secondly, the audio is awesome. i can't get enough of it when i'm home! in fact i'm listening to it now. i think the vocals are soft 'cause that's how they wanted you hear it, in a very textured way.

I can go along with "soft" vocals, but Aniron is to the point where you can hardly hear Enya at all. I much prefer the original soundtrack version of this.

Yes, the packaging is awesome. Everything about the LOTR series has been handled in a respectful way that has always been appreciated by the fans.

Every time I think of how all the studios that turned this series down must be wanting to shoot themselves in the foot I howl with laughter. And then I get thankful--other studios are used to having huge hits on their hands and may have been blaise about what they would have allowed Peter, and now Howard Shore to do. I'll bet New Line (and Reprise) put their top people on all of this and we have such a fine treatment of the movies and the music because New Line wasn't used to having such a hit.

Patty, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who wasn't impressed with the mixing on Aniron, and other tracks. The rest of the 5.1 mix is really good so I don't understand it.

And you're right about how lucky we are that New Line got these movies! I'm already looking forward to the TTT and ROTK box sets.

Re: The Complete "The Lord of the Rings: The Followship of the Ring" score - with 5.1 DVD

but one or 3 title alone can't revive an entire format =\

Re: The Complete "The Lord of the Rings: score - with 5.1 DVD

Has anyone heard any news on when the book about the LoTR music is coming out??

Re: The Complete "The Lord of the Rings: score - with 5.1 DVD

the DVD-Audio format.

Re: The Complete "The Lord of the Rings: score - with 5.1 DVD

Doug Adams' posts notwithstanding, the good stuff is ostensibly in the Howard Shore interview with Jeff Bond in last month's Film Score Monthly.

Can an FSM subscriber kindly cut and paste the last paragraph in which Adams says Shore mentions a timeframe for a TTT release?

Re: The Complete "The Lord of the Rings: score - with 5.1 DVD

i'd love to hear the ttt score. i think the regular version was the weakest one out of all 3. i hope the DVD-Audio version improves upon it.

Re: The Complete "The Lord of the Rings: score - with 5.1 DVD

I'm all over TT release in November 2006. Keep the schedule and I'll spend the cash!

Re: The Complete "The Lord of the Rings: score - with 5.1 DVD

that's a long time =(. that means ROTK DVD-Audio in 11/07!!! i can't wait for ROTK as it it's my fav out of the trilogy.

Re: The Complete "The Lord of the Rings: score - with 5.1 DVD

Just got my copy today. No, prices aren't coming down much ($57 with shipping from Amazon).

Okay, here's my problem: when I put the DVD-A disc in, the menu comes up and plays music, but when I select a song, my counter will start but no sound comes out. I've never encountered this problem with my other DVD-As and SACDs. It's the old Pioneer 563A, but I was assured it had the firmware upgrade when I bought it (from a member here). Was I misled? Or is there a problem with this DVDA?