Veronica Mars Season 2 - Page 23

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

That is completely wild! Who would have thought? I don't watch it, but I won't be angry if it's back and others aren't. If that's where the money and viewers are. . . . Still, it's a little scary that Supernatural wasn't even mentioned.

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Just watched the season finally. For sure the best I have seen in a while. I really like how they rapped up everything and setup next season. This show is great. Can't wait to watch season 2 again on DVD.

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Just found this on a VM LiveJournal community I'm on

It's Official: Veronica Mars Renewed, Everwood Dead
Straight from the horse's mouth, Rob Thomas just e-mailed me to confirm that Veronica Mars has been renewed for a third season. The show got a 22-episode order that, depending on ratings, can be reduced to 13. Very reliable sources, meanwhile, are also telling me that One Tree Hill will be back and Everwood is, in fact, dead. Talk about injustice.

Posted by TV Guide's Michael Ausiello 05/16/2006 2:11 PM

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Sorry for Everwood fans, but good news nonetheless. I hate the idea that it could be shortened, but I guess ratings are reality in the world of television.

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Sweet!

I'm a happy camper.

Rob

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Awesome news and it sounds like the new "mini mystery" format will at least ensure that there will be closure if the worst happens and we only get 13 eps.

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Yay for mini misteries. Honestly, I am still traying to wrap my mind around the intricate plot of S2. I know who did what, but it still hasn't really clicked into one coherent whole yet. Before you call me a dumbass, know that I don't think about this shit every day like some of y'all .

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H

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I've never seen you, but from what you've said in the past, calling you a dumbass in person wouldn't be the wisest idea.

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I would never call anyone a dumbass for finding VM hard to follow.

"Overly complicated" and "hard to follow" were the biggest complaints about season two and I think Rob Thomas is well aware of the complaints. That's one reason they're changing the format to three mini-mystery arcs to make it easier for new (and old) viewers to keep up. You shouldn't need a freaking flow chart to understand what the heck is going on.

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The main obstacle for grokking season 2 better was the amount of time in between new episodes. I will contend that season 2 will play better to those who watch it on DVD (in the span of a few days) when it shows up in August/September.

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Hmmm, I'm loving the renewal, but the possibility of being reduced to 13 episodes frightens me. I guess now that there is know other low-end network to compete with (WB vs. UPN)...the ratings are definitely going to need to go up. Here's hoping...

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I think the fact that they are going have the DVDs out before the new season premieres should really help out this time. VM is very much a word of mouth show and I've seen plenty of posts on this and other forums from people who didn't finish S1 on DVD until well into S2 and opted to either wait for the DVDs or get the show from other, non-Neilsen tracked, sources.

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Kevin: Let's hope you are right.

The S2 DVD goes on sale August 22, a few weeks before the S3 premiere is set to air. I hope all these new viewers who caught up with VM on DVD magically appear when the ratings for the S3 premiere come out. VM needs a pretty dramatic increase in viewership to stay on the air for the whole season, I would think.

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Well it's going to get a bump in viewership because of the (I'm assuming) Gilmore Girls lead in. What is needed is a first episode that will grab the attention of the people watching for the first time due to it being after Gilmore Girls.

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Hawai'i fans get the shaft. For now.

I was all jazzed to see Season 3 of Veronica Mars.

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I'd feel sorry for you, but you live in Hawai'i

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Great news - can't wait to pick it up.

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The CW has a VM page with a new promo for S3. The clips are almost entirely from S2 with a few from S1, but there is a VO about how Veronica has left high school and will be in college in the fall. It's a pretty good promo, better than what UPN has done in the past imho.

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I just found out my local NBC affiliate is carrying CW content on its secondary digital channel. I'm hoping I'll get to see VM in HD for once!

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That's a bonus of the merger that I didn't even think about. My local WB broadcast's in HD, but no such luck for UPN. Here's hoping that I get VM in HD next year.

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For me, it's the opposite. The UPN affiliate is in HD, and the WB is not, and of course, it's the WB affiliate that's going to CW, so I lose Veronica in HD.

Bad enough that I lost Smallville when I moved here, but losing Veronica in HD? That's just painful. Hopefully, something will be done before September.

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I know it sounds like a longshot, but start calling and trying to convince them to upgrade their feed. Make the point that you are used to UPN in HD, and now you're afraid you're going to lose that.

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Okay...I just finished watching season 2, immediately after watching season 1 on DVD. I watched the two seasons over a span of about 2 months (probably more like 2 1/2). So perhaps my experience was different than most. In my opinion, it's the only way to watch a good TV show, especially one that has continuing story lines.

- I had so many things to say about season 2, but after going through this thread, it seems most of it has already been said (should I have expected anything less from this group? ).

- Overall, I thought season 2 was better than season 1. I wasn't a big fan of 90% of the "mysteries of the week" from season 1, and season 2 practically eliminated those.

- I certainly wasn't able to predict a lot of the plot elements like some of you guys did, but I deserve some credit for calling out Woody as a "bad guy" earlier than anyone else. The second they showed Woody on screen in episode 1, I thought to myself, "He's dirty - why else would they cast Steve Guttenberg in that role?" Admnittedly, all along I thought it would turn out he was the bus killer, so I was actually relieved to be wrong about it.

- While I think they were well done, I'm not sure I liked the fact that they put those dream sequences in that one episode, where Veronica kept having nightmares about being on the bus as it was crashing. I realize those dreams were just Veronica's subconscious thoughts being revealed, but to me it just seemed like the writers were cheating out more clues. I don't remember specifics, but I seem to remember some of the information the victims revealed was information that Veronica could never have just dreamed up, without having more information.

- I was 90% sure he wasn't dead, but when they offered the possibility that Keith was killed in that explosion, I was really angry that it was actually a possibility. I have no doubt the show could not survive without Mr. Mars. I think Enrico Colantoni deserves a ton of credit. Based on his role in 'Just Shoot Me', I totally had him pegged as a one-trick-pony actor. I was dead wrong.

- I know this is a total stretch and longshot, but hear me out...it's just something I considered. Is it possible that Duncan actually DID kill Lilly? I know Aaron confessed in the elevator to Veronica, but if you watch that scene closely, it actually gives the impression that Veronica was imagining that cofession, because as soon as the elevator doors opened, there was kind of a strange frame skip, and then Aaron says his parting words. Perhaps it was just the broadcast I watched. It was never actually said that Aaron planted that Oscar statue with Duncan's hair, was it? And why would Duncan have Aaron killed? Yes, there is the revenge factor for him killing his sister, but with Aaron being acquitted, doesn't that make Duncan the prime suspect now? If Aaron really killed Lilly, Duncan just killed the only person who knows exactly what happened, and potentially Duncan's only chance of being exonerated. I know it's a stretch, and could even have the potential of being a "jump the shark" moment, but it's something to think about.

- Speaking of Duncan, I have to admit I'm surprised by the dislike of him on this thread...especially the women. I guess that just goes to show what I've always known...women will always take the bad boy (Logan) over the nice guy (Duncan).

- I love Dick.

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I missed some of the episodes last season and it took me to the end of the season to figure out who was who. Actually, I am still a little confused after the end of the season.

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- I know this is a total stretch and longshot, but hear me out...it's just something I considered. Is it possible that Duncan actually DID kill Lilly? I know Aaron confessed in the elevator to Veronica, but if you watch that scene closely, it actually gives the impression that Veronica was imagining that cofession, because as soon as the elevator doors opened, there was kind of a strange frame skip, and then Aaron says his parting words.****

I think it was fairly clear that he faked the story he told.

Duncan DID NOT kill Lilly. Besides the fact that he lied about the whole finale of season 1, Aaron was using Kendall to get Duncan's hair to plant the Oscar. What he said to Veronica was meant to reaffirm to the audience that he really DID kill Lilly. If you think about it, the story he offered up could have been truthful, and he only attacked Veronica and Keith for fear of something pointing him as a suspect. By covering both of his bases about both events he was clean. The confession to Veronica was his finale "F*** you Veronica. I got away with it." It also more justified his murder at the hands of CW. Duncan had him killed for getting away with his sister's murder. The shot of him on the beach with the baby, if anything, is meant to finally make clear to the audience that Duncan never cheated on Veronica or possibly killed Lilly. It was a perfect tie-up of the character on the show for now.

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Speaking only for myself here, the reason I love Logan is not because he's the "bad boy." It's because he's interesting. He's a well-written complex character and the actor who plays him is really talented and charismatic. Plus, Logan is given the best and funniest lines and Jason Dohring really knows how to deliver them.

The reason I never liked Duncan all that much has nothing to do with his being the "nice guy." Normally I *like* the nice guys. But Duncan was just boring. The writers never gave him anything to do and never fleshed his character out at all beyond "rich kid."

If we were expected to care about Duncan and Veronica's relationship with him, we should have been given a reason to care about Duncan. But we weren't. I think the writers got lazy and expected us to care about him just because Veronica did and that wasn't enough, at least for me. My VM viewing companion grew to really hate Veronica when she was with Duncan because, as my friend put it, "I guess Veronica's just with him because he's rich because I can't think of any other reason to like him."

The writers violated the "show, don't tell" rule of writing when it came to Duncan. We were *told* he's a nice guy, Veronica used to really love him, blah blah blah, but we were never shown, not once, what it was about him that made her interested in him. He never did anything all that nice imho. (And in fact, he actually was a pretty crappy boyfriend, imho. He lied to Veronica about Meg, and when she tried to talk to him about it, he basically told her to STFU. Nice. And he never seemed interested in Veronica's life or anything other than himself.)

Logan, on the other hand? Geez, we were shown all sorts of things about Logan that made him appealing. Yeah, he's done some bad things but he's also done good things. He's even saved Veronica's life about three times now. In fact, I'd say a good portion of the female viewing audience now takes Logan's "side" over Veronica's. I know my VM watching pal does. She thinks Veronica doesn't deserve Logan. Something I know most male fans would laugh at.

You may love Logan or hate him, but at least he's interesting. The writers have put a lot of effort into crafting a complex character and as a result, we probably know him better than any other character on the show other than Veronica herself. They never put any effort into Duncan and thus, nobody gave a crap about him because we never had any sense of who he was as a person. He was just "the boyfriend." In S2, he seemed to exist only as an obstacle for Veronica and Logan, and that's when a lot of fans just wanted to see him disappear. (And the writers got the message.)

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Well, Cheryl...it's hard to dispute any of what you say as you seem to have a pretty good grasp of it all. I would agree that Logan is more interesting...but I think you're selling Duncan's character short. I thought he did a lot of "nice guy" things in season 1, especially in the flashbacks of prior to Lilly being killed. He seemed like a real stand-up guy and didn't get involved in a lot of the "bullying" that even his best friend at the time [Logan] was the main instigator of. Perhaps Logan never had a chance given his upbringing (although Duncan's was no walk in the park either), but I don't think there is any argument that could convince me that Logan is overall a good person. Sure, he's shown some flashes, but in the end, he's still scum. I also felt Duncan's character to be more "real", but I guess that doesn't always make for better TV.

Excuse me while I go put a gun in my mouth as I just realized I'm a 33 year old married man that watches a TV show about a teenage girl private investigator and debates on an internet forum which teenage boy is a better character on the show.

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I just finished season 2 last night, it took me 1 week to do so, and, once again, this is the greatest detective show ever made.

I just cannot fathom how complex this season was! So many different plots and mysteries happening simultaniously, it was mind boggling but also the funnest time i've had with any show of this kind in recent memory.

I watched the show in tandem with my good friend Wendy by talking on our cell phones with our dvd's in sync, and afterwards we discussed what we've just seen and learned from any given ep and it really enhanced our enjoyment and helped keep things sorted out nicely.

It had occured to me after about 14 eps that Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

As for the issue that the second season was "too complicated", I have to say bullshit, the show was very complex this season yes, but you know what, I loved every damn minute of it, and everything came together nicely in the end, it wasn't so complex that the main mystery was unsolvable by the viewer, like I said, I figured it out, if only partially. This whole idea of having three mini mysteries for season 3 has me worried since i've become dependant on the show to provide me with an intriguing season-long plot.

In short, I fear that season 3 won't be as fun or as interesting, I hope to God that i'm wrong about that because I hate the idea that just because there are viewers out there who didn't want think about what was happening and jumped on-line to complain, I have to endure a dumbed-down season.

Anyway, I was very happy to watch this season so quickly because, like I said with season one, this show is a live-action page turner, you simply cannot stop, you have to see what's going to happen next. But, now that i'm all caught up i'll be watching season 3 along with the rest of you and having to wait a week between eps, that's going to be rough.

Nobody does mystery quite like Veronica Mars, she's the sassiest, smartest and sure-footed quick witted young sleuth to ever grace any screen. I originally posted this in the Veronica Mars dvd thread, but they're only interested in discussing the lack of "previously on" segments than the actual show, no fun, I want to discuss the show!

I love, and long live, Veronica Mars!!

BTW, Logan's cool in my book, I hated him at the start of season one but he really turned himself around.

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With all due respect, it wasn't *too* complicated, but it isn't bullshit to have had that impression while watching the show as it aired. Remember, it was a week apart in most cases, but there was a break of over a month before and after Christmas, and I believe there were other fairly lengthy breaks after that. That certainly made it difficult to keep some of the facts in mind.

As for the other thread, well, it's a DVD discussion thread. This one is specifically for discussing the show.

You're worried about the show being watered down, but I'm worried that it won't be around at all after the first order of episodes air. From what I understand, the new regime is going to be less forgiving of poor ratings. Tell all your friends.

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DId it occur to you that watching the whole thing in one week might have had something to do with it?

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H