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Veronica Mars Season 2 - Page 22

post #631 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Fantastic finale and I tought Thomas did a great job of bringing all of the threads together. Really looking forward to rewatching this on DVD.

One thing that stood out to me was how realistic the graduation felt. TV/Movie graduations always seem to turn into these huge affairs that feel more like the Oscars than a graduation.

Also loved the use of cameos- felt very natural and avoided the typical "if I'm going to pay the money to bring back Veronica's mom/Lily/Clarence/Wallace's mom, etc then I'm damn well going to use them in more than one scene!"

Gear mentioned in this thread:

Veronica Mars - The Complete Second Season
Veronica Mars - The Complete First Season
Veronica Mars - The Complete First Three Seasons
post #632 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Pulled this off of TV Guide's interview with RT re: Season 3 (not a spoiler)

Quote:
Ausiello: So there will be 24 episodes next season?
Rob: No, it'll probably be 8-7-7. And that can shift. I think, ideally, we'll get an 8, 7 and a 7. But when they figure out their schedule it could be a 9, 6 and 7. Nothing is set in stone as far as those exact episode counts go, but they'll be running in three uninterrupted blocks.

Sounds like he is talking to the network about how the episodes will run and them not being interrupted. Surely if they're talking like that then it sounds like a pretty safe bet for coming back.
post #633 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Dick calling Mac "Ghost World." I think someone on the HTF was discussing Ghost World in relation to her. Speaking of Dick, I wonder what his reaction is going to be. Gunning for Veronica?
post #634 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Quote:
Beaver was protecting his "secret" at all costs. The mayor was far from threatening to reveal it, so he did not have to die until the possibility of a trial or confession presented itself. In the meantime, Beaver was manipulating Mayor Woody and his incorporation plan through anonymous intimidation in order to make a fortune in real estate via the company that Kendall was fronting.

#1: kill the mayor, and the secret never had to come out;
#2: didn't Beaver set up that company with Kendall way after the bus crash, once his father had left? Such a long time since s2 started, I can't remember.
post #635 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Not way after. It happened in episode 3. My memory isn't great, either, but I believe Beaver set up his father's fall. And, as noted in that quote, Beaver didn't just want to stop his secret from coming out--he needed Woody alive to make a fortune on the failed incorporation plan.
post #636 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Quote:
One thing that stood out to me was how realistic the graduation felt. TV/Movie graduations always seem to turn into these huge affairs that feel more like the Oscars than a graduation.

My graduation was a lot more like TV graduations than Veronica's. Everyone had relatives come in from across the country, and the school rented out Nissan Pavilion, the local concert area used for things like Ozz Fest. Other schools at least had it outside on the football field.

As for the incorporation plan, I'm wondering whether the whole thing was Beaver's idea -- he blackmailed Woody into proposing it, putting out the "country club" city limits, and then blowing it.
post #637 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanOhara
We don't know how much time ellapsed from the rooftop showdown to the plane trip -- less than a week, since Keith said at graduation that they were going on Tuesday. Lamb could've questioned them and let them off in that time.

Lamb should actually be dead. He was on the plane if I remember Keith correctly.

Interesting episode, this show still rocks. Between VM and PB I've got all the great mystery/drama I need.
post #638 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

I had to laugh when Woody was revealed to be registered as "Underhill". That's one of my favorite bits from Fletch.

M.
post #639 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Well apparently the powers that be at VM are trying to make Lamb a series regular so apparently he isn't dead. hrm... i could swear I thought Lamb was on the plane...
post #640 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Lamb was not on the plane - he just didn't want Keith to be on the plane so that he wouldn't get away of Lamb's photo op when he met the plane when it landed.
post #641 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

That's right, thanks for the refresher. Would've made things far more interesting had Lamb been on the plane. I wonder if something were to happen to Lamb, would the town try to get Keith back as the Sheriff???
post #642 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Yeah, no way was Lamb on the plane. He would have had to fly out to Reno to get on it. It was just the local Reno law enforcement (would it be overstepping the bounds of decency to get someone from Reno 911 a cameo on VM for that?) flying Woody back to Neptune. What I found most odd was that they were using Woody's plane to do it. Why not a police vehicle of some kind?
And I thought Underhill was a reference to Frodo's travelling name in Lord of the Rings.
post #643 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Quote:
I had to laugh when Woody was revealed to be registered as "Underhill". That's one of my favorite bits from Fletch.
Quote:
And I thought Underhill was a reference to Frodo's travelling name in Lord of the Rings.

Could have been either one.
post #644 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Quote:
Would've made things far more interesting had Lamb been on the plane. I wonder if something were to happen to Lamb, would the town try to get Keith back as the Sheriff???
Well, Lamb can easily be taken down, now that they have evidence of his affair with Madison Sinclaire and the recording of his blackmailing Terrence Cook. The only reason they didn't come forward with the recording to begin with was that it would reveal that Terrence threw a game. Now that that info is out there, there's really nothing stopping them.
post #645 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Quote:
So do we know why Lamb acted so strangely when he let VM go after getting caught in Meg's family's house in the middle of the season?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Turetsky
My guess is he stayed behind to blackmail the Mannings in the same way he blackmailed Terrence Cook.

Actually, there were pretty strong inferences in the episode that pointed to Lamb having endured some similar abuse at the hands of his father that we saw at Meg's house. I think he was strongly thinking about doing something right for a change.

RG
post #646 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

I am suprised no one mentioned Jackie's "fall from grace"? Probably my biggest shock in the episode. Damn, we've been had.

--
H
post #647 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

The kid Beaver talked to who filmed action movies . . . that was something that happened way back in season one, right? I remember Veronica talked to a member of that group and found a video that happened to catch an image of Logan's mother falling to her death.
post #648 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Quote:
The kid Beaver talked to who filmed action movies . . . that was something that happened way back in season one, right? I remember Veronica talked to a member of that group and found a video that happened to catch an image of Logan's mother falling to her death.
Yep, it's in Season 1's Mars vs. Mars. I went back and checked the scene in question, and there was no mention of Beaver being part of the movies, nor was there mention of him being in charge of blowing stuff up. In that regard, it was a bit of a cheat. Had we gotten those bits of info way back in season one, it would have been a great setup, since nobody would be thinking back that far for bus crash clues, but there it is.
post #649 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Damn. That's exactly what I was hoping for . . . proof that the seeds of the bus crash were sown that long ago.
post #650 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

They had Beaver planned as the killer from Season 1:

http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2006/0...whodunnit.html

Quote:
After watching the finale, I asked Rob how long he'd been planning to make Cassidy a mass-murderer, and he wrote back, "We knew that Beaver was the killer of Season 2 when we introduced him in Season 1. We knew his motivation, so playing him as the picked-upon, less-manly Casablancas boy was all by design." When I then asked whether they knew he had raped Veronica when they wrote "A Trip to the Dentist," he said, "No. I wish I could claim that we were that clever." (They realized that Diane's script for "ATttD" left a gap where Beaver could have raped her about a month after she wrote it.) I suspect some people will think making Beaver into Veronica's rapist is just piling on, but it worked for me. Much as I loved "Dentist," it always felt like a little bit of a cop-out that Veronica and Duncan (under the GHB's influence) both thought they were having consensual sex. Now there's no way to make the memory of that night seem okay for Veronica.
post #651 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

I enjoyed the episode overall, but I felt really cheated that we got no fallout or reaction scenes from Veronica or especially Logan when they heard that Aaron had been murdered. Aaron's death should have been a pretty big deal to both of them and all we got was a flippant remark from Veronica about how Logan has taken to calling himself "Little Orphan Annie."

Boy, that Neptune Grand is sure facing a world of PR problems. Heh. On the same night a teenage boy plunges to his death from the roof of the hotel, world famous movie star Aaron Echolls is found shot to death, execution style, in his birthday suit no less, in a luxury suite. And oh yeah, overhead in the skies above the hotel, a small plane carrying the "Mayor" Woody Goodman, millionaire child molestor, is bombed out of the sky. Seriously, who in the world is going to want to check into that hotel?

One would think the police would immediately look to Logan and/or Veronica as the likely suspects for Aaron's murder. And how convenient that they were both at the Neptune Grand on the night he was killed. (I don't think they are going to go in that direction next year because I think Aaron is going to be a thing of the past, but still. Surely there must be an investigation into Aaron's murder and V/L have to be under suspicion.)

It was all so rushed, and I really don't get how Veronica and Logan would escape a long night of questioning by the police about Beaver's death. During which time she should have been able to ask someone if they knew anything about the plane crash and she would have learned from Lamb or Sacks or whoever that Keith wasn't on it. I get that they don't want to waste time showing us that Veronica and Logan have to go down to the station and all, but it just makes no sense to me that Veronica could have gone to sleep that night without knowing Keith was alive. He must have heard about the plane crash, couldn't he have called her?

But even with my issues, the rooftop sequence was all kinds of awesome. It can't be said enough that Kristen Bell is simply amazing. And Kyle Gallner, Jason Dohring and Tina Majorino all rocked hard too. Good stuff. This show definitely has the best ensemble of younger actors I think I've ever seen, and yes, I'm including Buffy. (We'll just leave Duncan out of this, considering he's now a murderer and probably won't be coming back into the country anytime soon.)
post #652 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Quote:
Yep, it's in Season 1's Mars vs. Mars. I went back and checked the scene in question, and there was no mention of Beaver being part of the movies, nor was there mention of him being in charge of blowing stuff up. In that regard, it was a bit of a cheat.

Beaver hadn't even been introduced at that point in the series (he first turned up in M.A.D. I believe). In fact, I don't even think Dick had a name at that point -- he was still just a recurring extra in the 09er posse.

If they planned Beave to be the killer, they didn't come up with the idea until the end of the season. (Though you have to admit they have more foresight than the writers of 24, who just ignore any foreshadowing from the previous seasons and create random plot twists without any attempts to retcon them.)
post #653 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

As someone said in another thread about another season finale, the writers chose to suspend logic for the moment in favor of suspense. Veronica could have learned about her father from Lamb, but it makes better drama for the viewers the way it happened. And, I can buy that Keith knew nothing about the plane explosion. He was driving, and maybe he didn't listen to a news station during the drive.
post #654 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Quote:
If they planned Beave to be the killer, they didn't come up with the idea until the end of the season.

Travis's quote above says otherwise. And considering that Thomas was honest enough to admit that they didn't plan him as the rapist initially, I don't see any reason to doubt his honesty.
post #655 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Quote:
Quote:
If they planned Beave to be the killer, they didn't come up with the idea until the end of the season.

Travis's quote above says otherwise.

No it doesn't.

Quote:
"We knew that Beaver was the killer of Season 2 when we introduced him in Season 1. We knew his motivation, so playing him as the picked-upon, less-manly Casablancas boy was all by design."

And when did Beaver first appear? The last three episodes of Season 1.
post #656 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_S_H
As someone said in another thread about another season finale, the writers chose to suspend logic for the moment in favor of suspense. Veronica could have learned about her father from Lamb, but it makes better drama for the viewers the way it happened. And, I can buy that Keith knew nothing about the plane explosion. He was driving, and maybe he didn't listen to a news station during the drive.

You're completely right about all that. I understand why they chose to do what they did, but it just strained credulity a little too much for me.

Then again, Kristen Bell did such an amazing job conveying Veronica's anguish and despair over Keith's death, I can't really complain about that. It was very effective. When she fell to her knees sobbing and just crumpled . . . gah.
post #657 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Yeah. As sarcastic and grim and even sleazy as this show can get, it--mainly because of KB--does have some highly emotional moments. The soul-lifting joy of her finding out for sure that Keith was her father, the anguish in the moment where she said directly to Duncan that she was his sister, and the despair over losing Keith. I felt in that moment that she could seriously be capable of doing either one of two things: going over the edge like Cassidy was encouraging her to do, or killing him.
post #658 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

There's an article claiming that next season is a definite go:

Quote:
No pilot pickups announced. Rumor that Seventh Heaven renewed. Chances better for renewals of One Tree Hill and Everwood. Already locked in are America's Next Top Model, Gilmore Girls, Superboy, Veronica Mars. Reba cancelled.

Not sure how trustworthy that is, given the mention of Seventh Heaven. They had/are about to have the much-ballyhooed series finale, so I don't think there are any rumors that it is coming back.

http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.co...&submit=Search
post #659 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_S_H
There's an article claiming that next season is a definite go:



Not sure how trustworthy that is, given the mention of Seventh Heaven. They had/are about to have the much-ballyhooed series finale, so I don't think there are any rumors that it is coming back.

http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.co...&submit=Search

Actually, the Futon Critic, a very reliable TV news site, is reporting that CW has reversed itself and will, indeed, bring Seventh Heaven back for one more season:

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/newswire.aspx?id=7152

This is quite a surprise. It's said to be part of a general dissatisfaction with CW's drama pilots, which is also leading some bubble shows to get renewed (good news for us Veronica fans!) and to them moving a planned CBS series, Ultra (based on the Image comic book by the Luna Brothers) to CW.

Could be bad news, however, for those that were looking forward to new series like Mercy Reef (the Aquaman version of Smallville) and Kevin Williamson's new show.
post #660 of 704

Re: Veronica Mars Season 2

I think there's going to be alot of people cursing "7th Heaven" if their favorite show doesn't get picked up.

From E!'s Kristin:
Quote:
My sources at the CW tell me this would only happen if they were "desperate," so I'm guessing their pilots didn't turn out as well as expected.

I'm also told regarding Veronica Mars that A) Dawn Ostroff is "the only one who wants it to come back and is fighting hard for it" but B) Kristen Bell tells me she's pretty sure she'll be in New York next week for the upfronts ... So ... I CHOOSE TO BELIEVE that Veronica Mars WILL come back!

Surely, if 7th Heaven's coming back, "Everwood"'s the only suitable match? Right? Please tell me it's so!
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Veronica Mars - The Complete Second Season
Veronica Mars - The Complete First Season
Veronica Mars - The Complete First Three Seasons
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