We knew it was coming: A new trend in standard vs SE pricing? - Page 2

Nah, that's just what the studios and retailers want you to believe. What's happened is that the standard release has now become the one disc edition. Before, $15 or $16 on release day got you the full blown two disc edition. That was true for most big releases up until about Master and Commander, which was the first to buck the trend and offer the bare bones edition at$15 and the SE at $30+. The hell of it is, people who don't want special features aren't saving a dime. They think they are, because now they're "not paying for things they won't use," but it's the same cost anyway. $16 for a bare bones edition is objectively a far worse deal than $16 for a two disc edition, whether you use the features or not. A good deal is keeping the price of the 2 disc editions the same and offering a bare bones edition for less, say $12-13. What we're seeing here isn't a good deal, it's just dressed up as one.

This practice offers no benefit to consumers whatsoever. People who don't want the features are paying the same amount they were before and getting less for the money, whether they care or not, and people who do want them are paying more money. The only people who benefit are the retailers/studios. Retailers by the WB pricing, and studios by the Fox pricing. Consumers get shafted in either case.

I wouldn't mind an extra buck or two extra for a 2-Disc edition if that was actually the reality of the price difference at the B&M stores. But as has been noted, the 2-Disc editions do not get similar markdowns as the 1-Disc editions. I don't know what store you are going to, but something like that sure doesn't exist where I am that I have found.

The other problem with the separate editions is that it makes the 2-Disc hard, if not impossible to find if you don't want to buy. My Blockbuster will only stock the 1-Disc, my local Library will also purchase the 1-Disc and the same with Netflix.

Will,

I'm not saying the 2-disc is cheaper than regular B&M's, I'm saying the place I go to doesn't loss lead the 1-disc, and their price on the 2-disc is pretty much the same as what regular B&M's sell it for.

For example, the typical list price structure for WB's 1-disc and 2-disc releases is 28.98 and 30.98 respectively. Since the shop I go to does a straight 25% off list pricing that would make the 1-disc 21.74 and the 2-disc 23.24. Since most B&M's are selling the 2-disc for somewhere between 22.99 and 24.99, it's kind of a no brainer for me to get the 2-disc at my shop. But if I was getting the 1-disc I would obviously be paying more. Sometimes I do anyway, as I get to support a local shop and get it for the weekend prior to release. Now with Fox's 1-disc and 2-disc releases, they usually do 29.99 and 39.99. So in these cases I stick with the 1-disc unless I really love the movie. I just bought the 1-disc Walk The Line, because there's nothing on the 2nd disc that sounded interesting to me.


Let's face it, most people (not HTF members) aren't going to care about the second disc when they impulse buy a disc the week of release. So in the studios' minds, they may be thinking "Why go the extra expense of a second disc when stores will loss lead it?". If they can save money by selling a 1-disc to B&M's for loss leading purposes, and extra an extra $5-$10 from collectors and enthusiasts, I can't say I blame them. I'm willing to bet if you rented any new release 2-disc edition, you'd find the second disc virtually untouched.

Like I said before, if the studios were to eliminate one of the options, it's going to be the 2-disc. That's just the way it is now. Other than voicing our displeasure to the stores and studios, or not buying either version, what can we do?

I think the psychological aspect of all this is rather funny. For me, I can totally justify whipping out a $20 bill for a new DVD. Impulse or planned purchase - at my local B&M. Maybe I get change (great!) and maybe it's JUST enough. But $20 is my mental breakpoint for a new (single film) DVD. Once the cashier wants more than $20, I start mentally wrestling with the decision and I start hearing my wife's voice telling me we don't need to OWN this title. I think this new trend is going to seriously impact the number of titles I buy because I HATE bare bones discs. If only on principle!

Greg,

What do you do if the title is 19.99? or even 18.99? Dang tax!

I live in CT so tax is 6%. That means the DVD has to be under $18.79 for it to be a no-brainer for me. I typically like to buy at Target where I could often get new release SE's for anywhere between 15.99-17.99. Gone are those days, or so it would seem....

But they have been jacked up. Read Chris Farmer’s post above.

The Aviator, Collateral, The Devil’s Rejects, and many others were all 2-disc SEs that could be had for $15 when they were released. War of the Worlds was also a 2-disc SE. The only difference was that it cost $30 because there was a “cheaper alternative” which was still $15 (not any cheaper than the 2-disc SEs listed above). Heck, the Gladiator 6.1 release was only $15 when it came out! I’m not buying the “cheaper alternative” argument because, simply put, it’s not any cheaper than what I used to pay. It’s still $15, except now I don’t get any special features. If I want those, I’m now being asked to pay twice as much as I used to. Like Chris said, a true cheaper alternative would be a bare-bones edition for less than the $15-16 we should be paying for SEs (although a bare-bones disc should go for $10, not $12-13).


This is like saying, “You know what? I don’t mind paying $10-15 more for the same product. I actually like having this option.” Gggggrrrrrrr. If you do like giving the studios extra money, then here’s my solution. Pay $15 for the 2-disc SE, and since you want to pay $10-15 more, just send the studios a check for this amount. Then those who don’t like this “choice” can pay the $15 for the SE like we used to (and still sometimes do) and not send the studios the extra money. I’ll use it to support the studio by buying another $15 SE! So yes, if you’re happy with paying more than you used to, then just send the studios extra checks for nothing in return.


No! You’re paying $10-15 more! Remember, special editions used to cost you only $15! Don’t forget this!

It’s only the way it is because consumers are accepting it. If not a single copy of the expensive SEs sold, then they would have been forced to revert back to the more consumer friendly model. These days are only “gone” (we still get SE-only releases sometimes) because consumers have accepted it. But if we stop buying them, the studios will stop releasing them this way. I much enjoyed War of the Worlds, but refused to buy it when I learned it was a dual release deal.


But you used to get the special features on discs that were the same prices as these bare-bones releases! You’re fine with paying the same amount but getting less product?


No benefit indeed.

Well maybe in some cases, but it would be nice if 2-Disc versions had better availability without having to buy. For example, I would have gotten the 1-Disc of Spielberg's War of the Worlds and just Netflixed the second disc of extras had it been available. Netflix apparently only stocked the single disc version. So I had to lay out significantly more money to be able to see the extra features.

Nathan,

I understand your frustration, but as DVD has hit its highest saturation point, the studios need to find other ways to maximize profits. It's not surprising they would find a way to give us less for the same money.

Here's a similar situation. Companies like Frito Lay have been gradually recuding the net amount of chips per bag. It used to be something like 14 oz. Then 13 oz. I've see some 12 1/12 oz bags. But they certainly haven't lowered the price. This is what's happening with DVD.

Personally, I rarely watch special features once, if at all, for most releases. The only reason I would buy a 2-disc version is if there wasn't much a price difference where I shop, or I was thinking ahead to resale value. Hate to say it, but I'm fine with the single-disc in most cases.

I definitely respect anyone's desire to fight studios on this. But I can't help feeling this is like saying "milk used to be $1.69 a gallon, now it's $3.29. I'm not buying anymore milk." The price is never going to go down.

What's really frustrating is when your B&M of choice doesn't stock the better edition to save shelf space. I live just about 2 miles from a Best Buy and can order things online, but I prefer to do my shopping at another location. And it really sucks when they don't carry the better edition.

Now if I can't afford the 2 disc, fine.

I buy the 1 disc or wait for price drop.

But when you're Disney/Miramax, and give us:

1 disc FULLSCREEN $30
2 disc WIDESCREEN $40

THAT is ROBBERY.

The Great Raid - guess they took the title literally.

Wow I didn't knwo about that one Chris. I wasn't interested in this film. That really sucks that you can only get the OAR by buying the more expensive one. But then again, the film tanked, so I guess they need to recoup the production costs somehow.

What was poor was the lack of LABELLING title-wise.
It didn't say FullScreen/Widescreen.

Just 1 disc, and 2 disc Director's Cut.

That's snakey as one can get.

No offense to you personally Andrew, but it's this kind of reasoning in general that lets the studios get away with it. Think of what you're saying: "As the market reaches saturation." that means the market has undergone explosive growth. Meaning, they're selling a hell of a lot more DVDs than they used to. It's obvious that the lack of a rental window and low pricing was a huge part of what helped the DVD market hit the levels of growth it did. VHS at its peak never hit the levels of market penetration that DVD now has, and yet the response to ever increasing sales is to RAISE prices? So when DVDs were selling well but not hugely, cheap prices made them a good investment and made them enough money. But now that the market has exploded and DVDs are selling hand over fist, they're not making enough? What kind of idiotic reasoning is that? I mean, come on people.

To put it another way, the manufacturing cost of a DVD is just about nil, for packaging, the discs, and everything else. The cost of a DVD comes from the content, not the physical objects themselves. But here's the trick. That money has already been spent, and was spent long before the first disc was even authored, much less pressed. Those documentaries on the two disc edition of [insert movie with two different editions here]? They're already long since paid for. It doesn't save [insert studio here] a dime not to put those documentaries on every copy they sell. Hell, for ones that strip features off the first disc, it COSTS them money, because they have to print two different runs, as opposed to just printing 1/3 as many disc 2s and disc 1s. The only money that is saved is in the manufacturing cost of a two disc edition vs. a one disc, and that's probably about a buck, give or take. Factor in different packaging that has to be designed, the smaller runs of each increasing your productions costs for each one (8 million of one thing is cheaper than 5 million of one and 3 million of another), and up front, this practice is costing the studios money to implement.

Look at the difference in wholesale pricing. Warner Brothers is charging a difference of one dollar for the one disc edition vs. the two disc edition. That comment about allowing stores to protect their margins? That said it all. Before, every copy of the movie got marked down to the loss leader price. It didn't matter how elaborate the edition was, if it was a big name movie, you could walk out of Best Buy or Circuit City with it for $15 or $16, without fail. Now, you can still walk out of the store with the movie for the same price, but only if you just want the movie. The special features have now been priced EXTRA. This isn't saving Joe Consumer who only wants the movie anything. This practice is aimed specifically at bilking a few more dollars out of the enthusiasts who want special features. This is about allowing the stores to have SOMETHING to sell at the loss leader prices that they themselves standardized on, but still making money on the people who want more.

The only people that come out ahead in this game are the studios and the retailers. Consumers who don't care about special features see no change for the most part, and lose the chance to ever change their mind and watch the features at a later date. Enthusiasts who do want the features are stuck holding the check, now having to pay for things that were once standard. It's the classic bait and switch, only instead of condemning this practice, we have members here actually praising the decision. And that's a disappointment to me.

Well said Mr. Farmer, well said.

You'll notice of course I never said I condone it. I merely understand why it's happening.

Also, Chris, you make it sound like the studios should make just enough to stay profitable. If you ran a business, I think you'd try to maximize profits. Again, I dont condone and of course I am not happy to pay more for what I used to get for less. But such is capitalism.

You're right, they hooked us, and are now charging more. We can always quit. Just like smokers.

And I pretty much have, my rental account is never idle. Personally, I think the studios have brass balls milking the public for every last cent when HD is just around the corner and dvd is approaching the end of it's life. They are certainly not making their nearly dead product more attractive.

Terry, that's cool that you have weened yourself off purchasing. Wish I could.

But DVD is far from dead. Take the WB chat for instance. Titles being discussed for DVD release well into 2007. Only a few times was HD mentioned. I predict DVD is still going to be the loss leader for at least the next 18-24 months.

Also, my question stands, and again I pose it as a hypothetical rather than a defense of studios: what should the studios do? Try not make as much money as they can?

Frankly I'd be surprised if the studios weren't trying to milk every last cent. They are in the business of making money. While I'm sure some studios would like the customer to be happy, at the end of the day they'd rather be in the black.

And the way I see it, once the studios figured out 4-5 years ago how much money they could make on DVD, they opened the floodgates for titles. This was a huge benefit for film fans, as we could finally get a lot, if not all of those titles we had been dreaming of getting on DVD. So in a sense, you could say the studios' desire to maximize profits helped us get the great films we have on DVD.

Remember, once it stops being profitable for studios to release certain types of release, they will stop. They aren't out to provide a public service. They have to make money.

If you are angry with their current policies, do what Terry does. Rent. Or buy used. Maybe they will get the message.

And I agree with you. I didn't say DVD was dead... I said nearly dead. Many people I know foresee it's demise (rightly I think) and see little point in purchasing now. It's perceived value is greatly diminished. That's why I'm appalled they have the audacity to strip out the extras, diminishing the value even more... either that or raise the price.
Oh, please... studios made rivers of money off DVD. They still do. I would think they would want to keep my goodwill to induce me into HD purchases rather than make a few extra bucks by inflating prices on a faltering product. Apparently not. I guess they assume we won't see what they are doing, or don't care.

This would be nice. But think about this. The studios used to be very attuned to places like HTF. It hasn't been that way for quite some time though. It would appear they are more concerned with selling the 1-disc release to the growing number of impulse buyers each week than they are keeping enthusiasts like you or me happy.

I have a sneaking suspicion they aren't going to bother catering to people like us with HD either, even though it is in their best interests for a strong launch.

Correct me if I'm wrong Terry, but it sounds like you're asking studios to "leave money on the table". I honestly don't think they are capable of that. If it's there for the taking, they will take it.

Blame the pirates?

I have to say, I'm totally with Chris F. and Nathan on this one. This is one of the most annoying and frustrating trends I've seen from studios. It's a blatant attempt at a cash-grab, cutting SE margins and thereby raising SE retail prices from $15-16 to $20-24. It's the reason I still don't own Mystic River SE and Master & Commander SE, two titles that I've wanted for a while.

And you know what really worries me? No matter which way sales figures trend as a result of the change, consumers could lose! If SE sales drop significantly, someone could make an argument that people really aren't interested in the extras in SEs an standard editions are "good enough". If enough people keep buying SEs at the higher prices, then this two-track pricing is likely to continue.

I hope that studios do enough market research to be persuaded that this latest pricing scheme isn't working, and that they go back to the old way of doing things.

$0.02 (more than a little venting...),

Bob