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That's it, I'm walking. gas up 33 cents since Monday, - Page 2

post #31 of 2222
8/14/05 at 2:03pm
Last year, the States' Attorneys General investigated gouging at the pump, and my brother cheered when the price dropped a nickel overnight.

I have not heard word one from the Attorneys General this year, and my bro says he wants to write a letter to our Attorney General. I told him the oil companies learned their lesson from last year, and learned the value of bribery to keep the law off their backs.
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post #32 of 2222
8/14/05 at 2:10pm
Quote:
I understand the Chinese are the ones driving the market. With their economy & industry booming the demand for fuel has increased exponentially; where once they had sufficient reserves they are now buying up arab oil. Anyone got any thoughts on this?

Well if you knew something about economics something basic like the supply and Demand curves than you would understand what is being said.

BUT, I think a lot of the price is due to speculators that force the prices higher with fear.

The basis of it is that they can't find more oil and, therefore, we are running out of it quicker than we originally thought. And, wait for this, it is non-renewable! Holy sh*t! When did we find that out? Yesterday? It seems like it.

And since we keep paying these inflated prices do you think it will stop?

Like I said basic economics explains much of this. Which reason is right is really anyones guess; for now that is.
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post #33 of 2222
8/14/05 at 2:46pm
Quote:
No new delivery, same gas, already paid for (I'm assuming), and the price goes up? Wait a second... How did that happen? Who's profiting here?


It is a futures market. The price you pay at the pump is based on how much they *think* they will have to pay in the future.


The thing that ticks me off the most is the news touting RECORD GAS PRICES
If adjusted for inflation (as it should be) the actually national average record is over $3/gallon set in the '80's. We are nowhere near that.
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post #34 of 2222
8/14/05 at 3:01pm
Quote:
Well if you knew something about economics something basic like the supply and Demand curves than you would understand what is being said.


I think someone just called me stupid.

Quote:
BUT, I think a lot of the price is due to speculators that force the prices higher with fear.

Wait a minute, I said that.
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post #35 of 2222
8/14/05 at 3:21pm
I haven't had a bike since I was about 1996, but I'm seriously thinking of buying one soon. Every little bit helps I guess that I can save.
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post #36 of 2222
8/14/05 at 3:58pm
A couple weeks ago, a gas station near where I work was $2.17 in the morning. At lunch time, it was $2.49. When I left work in the afternoon it was $2.17 again. Tell me how that makes sense?
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post #37 of 2222
8/14/05 at 4:21pm
Yes, I'm seriously considering buying a bicycle too.... use it for things that can be done on it as suggested earlier.


I'm really glad I drive a sewing machine powered S-10 Pickup. I feel bad (well,not really) for the people who bought those big SUV's. Wonder if they are now thinking a 10mpg vehicle wasn't such a good idea....
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post #38 of 2222
8/14/05 at 5:37pm
A couple weeks ago, a gas station near where I work was $2.17 in the morning. At lunch time, it was $2.49. When I left work in the afternoon it was $2.17 again. Tell me how that makes sense?


Things are worth exactly what people are willing to pay. Period.
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post #39 of 2222
8/14/05 at 5:46pm
Quote:
If adjusted for inflation (as it should be) the actually national average record is over $3/gallon set in the '80's. We are nowhere near that.


It hit the 3 dollar a gallon mark on Marthas Vineyard this weekend.
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post #40 of 2222
8/14/05 at 5:52pm
Yuck, but we are talking about the national average. The average around here is $2.45 or so. Shocked me when I went to get gas yesterday as I didn't notice the prices going up.
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post #41 of 2222
8/14/05 at 5:54pm
If adjusted for inflation (as it should be) the actually national average record is over $3/gallon set in the '80's. We are nowhere near that.

Given the rate of increase, give it a day or two and we'll be there.

I don't really understand it either. The same reasons are cited day after day for the increases. Nothing seems to get any worse, but cite the same reasons again and jack it up another $1/barrel. At what point is all the speculation and fear accounted for?

Ooooh, there MAY be a terrorist attack. Add $2/barrel. Repeat daily.

Ooooh, there MAY be a hurricane "sometime" in the next three months in the Gulf of Mexico. Add another $2/barrel. Repeat daily.

Oooh, my friend may lose 100 lbs. in the next year. She'd better buy a new wardrobe now rather than waiting until it ACTUALLY HAPPENS!

Never knew oil markets depended so heavily on the Psychic Friends Network.
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post #42 of 2222
8/15/05 at 6:16am
Quote:
At what point is all the speculation and fear accounted for?


And at what point, after all the fear and speculation doesn't come to pass, does the price of gas come down?

Bruce
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post #43 of 2222
8/15/05 at 6:34am
Quote:
And at what point, after all the fear and speculation doesn't come to pass, does the price of gas come down?

They say after Labor Day.


I think the biggest problem is refining. We haven't built a new refinery in decades. And this becomes a problem in not what we can produce. But, what if something should happen to the few refineries we have (ie-hurricane). Their is very little backup. And for this I blame the oil companies.
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post #44 of 2222
8/15/05 at 6:54am
Quote:
What I don't understand is this: The gas station gets a delivery of 80,000 gallons of gas on Monday, and the price on the sign is, say, $2.25 (the bastards). On Wednesday, same gas, the price goes up to $2.45. No new delivery, same gas, already paid for (I'm assuming), and the price goes up? Wait a second... How did that happen? Who's profiting here?
Quote:
It is a futures market. The price you pay at the pump is based on how much they *think* they will have to pay in the future.
That's exactly it. My ex did accounting for a gas company and she used to tell me a lot of interesting things. She would note that MOST gas stations only make 1 cent per gallon of gas sold. Like 90% of their profit is from 'convenience' sales. So avoid stations that only sell gas because the convenience store ones are the ones that are able to sell gas cheaper.
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post #45 of 2222
8/15/05 at 7:41am
The futures market is a contributing factor but it would adjust itself out if that was the only cause. I think that the threats to supply are just a conveinient way to justify shunting the price up.

What I think is going on (based on one smemester of economics during my physics degree), is that the oil companies have cottoned on that demand doesn't fall off particularly strongly as prices go up. I believe this was refered to as having low demand side elasticity. There's a whole bunch of diferential equations about it but the long and the short of it is that if you increase the price of a product by a dollar, either so many people stop buying that you're profits go down or everybody keeps on buying and your profits go up. There's a magic point where the function maximizes and you've found the most profitable price point.

This is why supply and demand isn't forcing the price back down, it's still profitable to put it up. Especially when there is no effective competition.

It can't go on forever, it's going to cause serious problems in other parts of the economy. It's just a question of what's going to give first.
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post #46 of 2222
8/15/05 at 8:37am
Let's not forget who is really getting hit the hardest: The trucking industry. I wouldn't be surprised if we see another 18-wheeler protest at our nations capital soon. Also, with the cost of living going up - most people are living on a salary without a significat raise since the 80s. Things are going to get tough.

- Colton
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post #47 of 2222
8/15/05 at 9:29am
Anyone want to buy a Hummer? Psyche.
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post #48 of 2222
8/15/05 at 9:32am
while on the topic of gas prices, has anybody seen the new gmc denali commercials which tout the fuel efficiency of their engines (16/20 - not sure who thought that was "efficient"). i think that speaks volumes about today's gas prices when suv ads talk about fuel economy. makes me glad i have my little jetta. i guess my next vehicle will be a hybrid at these rates.

kevin t
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post #49 of 2222
8/15/05 at 9:32am
I'm wondering whats going to be done when the gas prices get so high that it really is going to significanly effect the economy. I have to think for every price increase, there are people who get pushed over the fence of having to cut back on other necessities just so they can drive to work. I'm thinking at some point the bubble is going to have to burst there has to be a point where a significant amount of people will refuse (or not be able to afford) buying gas, seriously cut back on travel, etc that demand will go down and prices will ease up. The question is, how high will it go before then. Also, with China and India becoming huge consumers, will decreased demand it the US affect prices in a significant manner?

Quote:
Anyone want to buy a Hummer?

Anybody else think an SUV tax ought to be imposed. I know a lot of people here drive them, but I am really getting sick of gas guzzling vehicles driving up demand and consumption and fuel prices. It's like going out to dinner with 15 people, not being very hungry and just ordering an appetizer and then when the check comes you owe $85 for the $8 worth of food that you ordered. If the car that you own does not meet a certain fuel efficieny rating, you have to pay extra taxes on it. I would hope something like that would encourage consumers to buy more fuel efficient cars.
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post #50 of 2222
8/15/05 at 10:22am
Quote:
Anybody else think an SUV tax ought to be imposed.
As much as I LOATHE SUV's, a tax like that would scare me because it wouldn't be long before they start taxing people like me (who have long commutes) or even worse...putting back the TOLLS in CT

And I guess the only good thing about the high prices is, hopefully this Hummer trend (which seems to be gaining in popularity) will not reach what it could if the gas prices were 'normal'.
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post #51 of 2222
8/15/05 at 10:30am
"I would LOVE to pay $1.77."

Me too. As little as 5 years ago I remember paying 99 cents a gallon - $9 to fill the tank on my Honda CRX.

Right now,Im putting about $70 a week in my Subaru to get back and forth to work.$280 a month on gas is f*kin crazy (thats almost as such as my car payment & insurance!)
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post #52 of 2222
8/15/05 at 11:07am
I think there's a shortage on movies too because movie ticket prices keep jumping up a dollar every few months. We need to conserve people!
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post #53 of 2222
8/15/05 at 11:13am
Don't forget the oft-mentioned "mileage tax" which you would submit your vehicles mileage to the IRS every year along with your taxes and pay a fee according to how-many miles you've traveled.

I don't know about your specific vehicles, but I'm fully capable of removing the glass and rolling the number back on mine manually. Electronic LCD odometer owners, you'll be SOL.
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post #54 of 2222
8/15/05 at 11:33am
Quote:
Anybody else think an SUV tax ought to be imposed


It already happened here in Canada. There is an $800.00 tax on SUV's and other Gas Guzzlers.

But this is Canada,,, we tax everything (Sadly True)

Personally I think the SUV Tax is BS because SUV owners are already paying more in Gas Taxes every time they fill up!
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post #55 of 2222
8/15/05 at 11:57am
2.49
2.59
2.69

And I've got a 300ZX Turbo with increased boost(requires highest octain)...
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post #56 of 2222
8/15/05 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Anybody else think an SUV tax ought to be imposed.
This is a very socialist concept. Large vehicle owners already pay more at the pumps and part of that IS taxes. More gas in the tank = more taxes paid on that gas. Besides, I'm pretty sure poor mileage private vehicles are not even a DENT in the demand compared to increased demand from developing countries, fuel oil (domestic and foriegn), energy consumption etc. I.e. if you did a pie graph of demand and had one slice be "people who drive SUVs instead of whatever I arbitrarily and ignorantly deem acceptable" and then the other slices are "China", "India", "Fuel Oil", "Fear Factor" etc. The SUVs would be a minor sliver.
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post #57 of 2222
8/15/05 at 12:14pm
Saw it with my own eyes yesterday....$3.15/gallon for 87 octane unleaded self-serve at a Chevron gas station in San Francisco. You don't want to know what was being charged for 89 octane or 92 octane
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post #58 of 2222
8/15/05 at 12:52pm
Okay, here's the connundrum:

10am this morning, the price is $2.55.

2pm this afternoon, the price at the same pump is... $2.63.

Does anyone else see this as a scam? The guy is making 8c/gallon more four hours later. He didn't get a new shipment, buy new inventory. He just jacked his price up. When he got his shipment four days ago, the cost was one thing, and now it's a whole new cost!

Is Mister Corner Filling Station standing in at the crude (oil) auction in Saudi Arabia, bidding to directly affect his price moment by moment, or am I just being taken for a ride?

I knew I shoulda bought gas stations! DAMMIT!

MC
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post #59 of 2222
8/15/05 at 12:55pm
Quote:
10am this morning, the price is $2.55.

2pm this afternoon, the price at the same pump is... $2.63.

Does anyone else see this as a scam? The guy is making 8c/gallon more four hours later. He didn't get a new shipment, buy new inventory. He just jacked his price up. When he got his shipment four days ago, the cost was one thing, and now it's a whole new cost!
They're micromanaging the pricepoints. On a larger scale people that buy gas early in the morning are a differnt group than those that buy it at 2pm. Especially if you are seeing it change back in late afternoon as one poster mentioned.
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post #60 of 2222
8/15/05 at 1:53pm
"mileage tax"? Yikes!

As somebody that drives 100 miles a day to work and back (due to the high real estate prices close to work). I'm pretty sure I'm paying taxes on every gallon of gas I use.

A milage tax would be double dipping on the government's part.
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