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That's it, I'm walking. gas up 33 cents since Monday, - Page 10

post #271 of 2203
8/31/05 at 8:11am
Quote:
Giving a break on refinery restrictions and overriding state "blend" requirements would also give a long term (the former) and short term (the latter) move towards a solution.


Solution to what? Do you really think that blend requirements have anything to do with the recent rise in gas prices? Blended gas requirements have been around for a long time, including periods where (inflation adjusted) gas prices have been near the all time low.

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An immediate OK to drilling in the ANWAR region should be a no brainer, if only to help relieve the reliance on foreign oil.


I don't see how adding at best 6 months worth of oil spread over a couple of decades would make the slightest difference to the price of gas at the pump.
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post #272 of 2203
8/31/05 at 8:21am
Quote:
Solution to what?


Solution to the fact that many of the problems of today's gas prices (setting aside the price of crude) are due to lack of refinery capacity, not lack of crude. Loss of 12% or so of the nation's refineries will exacerbate this. Allowing the refineries to streamline operations by letting them standardize the blend produced will have an immediate impact on refinery capacity. A far better step towards temporary relief (maybe wording it as a "solution" was hyperbole, mea culpa) than price controls have been in the past.

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I don't see how adding at best 6 months worth of oil spread over a couple of decades would make the slightest difference to the price of gas at the pump.


Better than no gas at the pump, which is where price controls lead. See the late 1970's for proof. Better yet (and to keep it HTF related), see the opening montage of "Miracle".
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post #273 of 2203
8/31/05 at 8:24am
I would have filled up yesterday if it wasn't pouring; ended up paying a quarter more per gallon on my way to work today ($2.89 for 89 grade). I could have saved ~15 cents/gallon had I went to Mobil, but I prefer Shell (they're a TOP TIER Gasoline retailer )
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post #274 of 2203
8/31/05 at 8:29am
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Better than no gas at the pump, which is where price controls lead.


I don't understand. AFAIK the only price controls in place are in Hawaii, no one is suggesting that price controls be implemented anywhere else. Even if they were how would a trickle of oil from ANWR make any difference?
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post #275 of 2203
8/31/05 at 8:33am
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I can imagine highways filled with bicycles.
If only the price increase would clear more traffic from my commute
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post #276 of 2203
8/31/05 at 8:36am
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Solution to the fact that many of the problems of today's gas prices (setting aside the price of crude) are due to lack of refinery capacity, not lack of crude.

The price of gas today is in direct relation to the price of crude, at least in terms of percentages compared to when gas was cheaper (say 5 years ago), actually it's a percentage point or so lower than in the past.

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Loss of 12% or so of the nation's refineries will exacerbate this.

There's no doubt about that, but that is fairly short term as the oil companies aren't going to let them be down for very long and they have the cash and the man power to bring that stuff online VERY fast. The loss of capacity by rigs in the gulf will be a little more long term, but I'm sure there are plenty of oil producing countries out there more than willing to sell us more crude.
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post #277 of 2203
8/31/05 at 9:28am
$.65/gallon increase, all grades, since yesterday morning....... Yet still people leave their cars running while they go in the store..
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post #278 of 2203
8/31/05 at 9:29am
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I can imagine highways filled with bicycles.

I can dream can I? As long as it's not the interstates as it's illegal...

I see a lot of people biking on the highways, usually going the wrong way and without a helmet...

Jay
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post #279 of 2203
8/31/05 at 9:35am
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Yet still people leave their cars running while they go in the store
But you need to realize that not eveyone is affected by the price of gas.

While I don't like it, I can afford $3/gallon comfortably.
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post #280 of 2203
8/31/05 at 9:58am
"Yet still people leave their cars running while they go in the store"

YEP, I still see line-ups at the local coffee shop drive through because people are too lazy to get out of their cars or too stupid to realize it's quicker(and cheaper) to walk inside.

Brent
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post #281 of 2203
8/31/05 at 10:05am
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I see a lot of people biking on the highways, usually going the wrong way and without a helmet...


By "wrong way", you mean riding WITH the traffic? I've heard bicyclists are supposed to ride AGAINST the traffic (left lane). Is this correct?

- Colton
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post #282 of 2203
8/31/05 at 10:08am
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Solution to the fact that many of the problems of today's gas prices (setting aside the price of crude) are due to lack of refinery capacity, not lack of crude.


And thats not going to change anytime soon. Right now oil companies are making huge profits. Spending large sums of money on new refineries doesn't make economic sense, especially if doing so would reduce the price of gas and therefore their profit margins. There's no incentive for them to do it.

They haven't built new refineries in a long time because in the 70s and 80s they had excess capacity which resulted in reduced (or no) profits. They're not going to invest the billions needed until they can be sure it will result in increased profits for their shareholders.

PLease note I'm not trying to say that the oil companies are good or bad for doing this, just pointing out the economics of the situation.
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post #283 of 2203
8/31/05 at 10:26am
We are all screwed. This is going to lead beyond a recession and into a depression.
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post #284 of 2203
8/31/05 at 10:29am
Based on what?
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post #285 of 2203
8/31/05 at 10:38am
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Based on what?


My fears and paranoia!

I don't know...I just have a gut feeling that we are collectivley fucked...

I can resonably afford $3 per gallon...only 7 miles round trip to work each day...35 miles a week..140 miles a month...12 gallon tank at about 25 miles to the gallon (assuming no a/c, slow acceleration). Make all my grocery stops/errands on the way to or from work and sit here on the HTF on the weekends I can stretch a tank close to two months...

I'm not worried about me, I'm worried about the whole country. A lot of people have a lot more need for gas than I do and they are going to quit buying things and that will really screw us....

I have a feeling $3 is here to stay...
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post #286 of 2203
8/31/05 at 10:47am
Garrett - what stores? This sounds like a great place to jack a car!

The wrong way for bicycles is against the traffic, and all state laws require them to ride only on the street.

So, who's going out to buy one of those Segways?

Glenn
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post #287 of 2203
8/31/05 at 10:51am
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Garrett - what stores? This sounds like a great place to jack a car!

Check your local BlockBuster.
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post #288 of 2203
8/31/05 at 11:10am
Man, those oil companies are really hurting. From Yahoo Financials, all gross profit & in $ thousands.

Exxon
Quote:
PERIOD ENDING30-Jun-0531-Mar-0531-Dec-0430-Sep-04
Total Revenue88,568,000 82,051,000 83,365,000 76,375,000
Cost of Revenue66,111,000 45,570,000 25,279,000 63,131,000
Gross Profit22,457,000 36,481,000 58,086,000 13,244,000

Net Income $7,640,000 $7,860,000 $8,420,000 $5,680,000

BP
Quote:
PERIOD ENDING31-Dec-0431-Dec-0331-Dec-02
Total Revenue285,059,000 232,571,000 180,186,000
Cost of Revenue249,259,000 203,752,000 158,267,000
Gross Profit35,800,000 28,819,000 21,919,000
Net Income $17,088,000 $13,141,000 $8,395,000

Conoco
Quote:
PERIOD ENDING31-Dec-0431-Dec-0331-Dec-02
Total Revenue136,916,000 105,097,000 57,224,000
Cost of Revenue98,257,000 75,233,000 43,403,000
Gross Profit38,659,000 29,864,000 13,821,000
Net Income$8,129,000 $4,735,000 ($295,000)

Chevron
Quote:
PERIOD ENDING31-Dec-0431-Dec-0331-Dec-02
Total Revenue155,300,000 121,761,000 99,049,000
Cost of Revenue104,948,000 72,154,000 57,840,000
Gross Profit50,352,000 49,607,000 41,209,000
Net Income $13,328,000 $7,230,000 $1,132,000
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post #289 of 2203
8/31/05 at 11:16am
Last I checked making a profit was still allowed in this country. Perhaps instead of looking at just one number you should contrast that with growth of the company as well.

Andrew
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post #290 of 2203
8/31/05 at 11:24am
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By "wrong way", you mean riding WITH the traffic? I've heard bicyclists are supposed to ride AGAINST the traffic (left lane). Is this correct?


Nope. That's pedestrians when there's no sidewalk.
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post #291 of 2203
8/31/05 at 11:26am
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Last I checked making a profit was still allowed in this country. Perhaps instead of looking at just one number you should contrast that with growth of the company as well.


No one said anything about making a profit being wrong. The point is that the current situation is beneficial to the oil companies and therefore they have no incentive to change it.

How do you measure "growth" of a company anyway?
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post #292 of 2203
8/31/05 at 11:29am
Quote:
PERIOD ENDING 30-Jun-05 31-Mar-05 31-Dec-04 30-Sep-04
Total Revenue 88,568,000 82,051,000 83,365,000 76,375,000
Cost of Revenue 66,111,000 45,570,000 25,279,000 63,131,000
Gross Profit 22,457,000 36,481,000 58,086,000 13,244,000
Net Income $7,640,000 $7,860,000 $8,420,000 $5,680,000


Considering these (Exxon) are the only stats that are for this year and the price of crude has been steadily climbing all year, the fact that their Gross Profit is variable and Net Income is falling means that you should probably look for some better statistics if you are looking to support anything but the fact that billion dollar companies make several hundred millions in Net Income per quarter.
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post #293 of 2203
8/31/05 at 11:30am
Geez. Good thing I filled up my tank on Monday. I didn't check how much gas went up here in Calgary though. Probably 15 cents per liter at least.
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post #294 of 2203
8/31/05 at 11:31am
Ajay, I don't mind oil companies making a profit, I just object to a huge, HUGE, fricking chunk going to executive bonuses, while they lay people off and try to reduce worker benefits. This is true everywhere, not just the oil industry.

We need to stop sucking off the dinosaur teet and truly invest in an alternative to oil. All it would take is a President with balls, like Kennedy did with the moon landing, that we will stop using gasoline in 10 years.
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post #295 of 2203
8/31/05 at 11:33am
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Last I checked making a profit was still allowed in this country.


Maybe not for long, if the whine gets loud enough. Remember the "Windfall Profits Tax"? Basic economics is not one of the American populace's strong suits. Funny that there isn't the uproar with regards to real estate price increases....I guess those "obscene" profits are OK.

Mort
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post #296 of 2203
8/31/05 at 11:33am
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that we will stop using gasoline in 10 years.


And use what? Note: If you say Hydrogen, I'll scream!!!! Seriously, we've already been through it, don't even try.
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post #297 of 2203
8/31/05 at 11:37am
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President with balls


http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=oxymoron

We're doomed..doomed...doomed.

I feel like this is the beginning of the end...
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post #298 of 2203
8/31/05 at 11:37am
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If you say Hydrogen, I'll scream!!!!

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post #299 of 2203
8/31/05 at 11:44am
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No one said anything about making a profit being wrong. The point is that the current situation is beneficial to the oil companies and therefore they have no incentive to change it.

How do you measure "growth" of a company anyway?

How do you measure growth? Perhaps by increase in sales?

And your post about building refineries is all well and good, but you gloss over some of the important parts like costs and regulations. Depending on who you want to believe the costs for building a new refinery today is going to cost in the double digit billions all the way up to simply impossible (because regulations will simply not be possible to comply with).

So how will an oil company get back it's HUGE investment? They have to either a) Sell more product or b) raise prices. Do you think there is really enough growth happening right now to pay back such an invest in a 5-10yr time frame while still reducing costs? Or they could raise prices...but that does defeat the purpose

Quote:
Maybe not for long, if the whine gets loud enough. Remember the "Windfall Profits Tax"? Basic economics is not one of the American populace's strong suits. Funny that there isn't the uproar with regards to real estate price increases....I guess those "obscene" profits are OK.

I also remember gas rationing, long lines, even/odd days, etc.

And you bring up a good point about RE, people are all up in arms about paying $10 more at the pump, yet there is hardly a peep out of them when they have to pay $200k more for a house.

Andrew
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post #300 of 2203
8/31/05 at 11:47am
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And you bring up a good point about RE, people are all up in arms about paying $10 more at the pump, yet there is hardly a peep out of them when they have to pay $200k more for a house.


That's because they know 10 years down the line they can sell the house and all of a sudden an "obscene profit margin" becomes a "nice return on investment".
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