Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged) - Page 60  

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

I can't believe that they'll recast the Joker role simply because I can't believe that they any plans they have for the third one are so set in stone that the Joker MUST be included.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

"It's funny. When they announced that Ledger would take the role of the Joker, everybody said that he was the worst person for the role. That he would be terrible, especially compared to Jack Nicholson."


Ledger had some people defending him from the beginning. (The SHH boards were especially negative though)

And not everyone was in love with Nicholsons Joker.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

Way to keep an open mind.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

Once the teaser hit and people saw Heath, opinions quickly changed. That pretty much did it. I think serious moviegoers are looking forward to this film vs any other this year.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

I like to think I had a completely open mind on Heath when I heard the news. I think I may have been a little disappointed Bettany wasn't picked since he fit a physical conception I had of the character, but that was probably tempered because Ledger was such an out of left field choice which made it stimulating to the imagination (for me). To be honest, I haven't seen anything yet in the trailer snippets to "wow" me, and some of the affectations he uses are going to need to be seen in context before I piss and moan about them. I do like the "Here's my card" reading though.
Ultimately, it comes down to whats on the page.
What does the character do in the story?
If he just sits around and tosses off one liners, and 'poses', I'll hate it (and the movie).

The first Burton Batman movie I think would have been far more interesting to me if they had used the poisoning of the consumer products as the main plot. That was a fantastic idea for a 'joker scheme' (and may actually be better than anything the character executes in Dark Knight) that could have easily been mysteriously developed over the course of the second act (with the first act taken up with his creation), with Batman tracking down the clues to a sudden rash of similar horrible deaths- then solving the mystery in the third act, leading into the big pyrotechnics that all summer blockbusters seem to need with Batman fighting his way into and destroying the chemical factory.
Instead, this really interesting story hook is dispensed with perfunctorily so that Burton could use the third act to indulge in his pet visual obsessions with twisted childhood imagery (the silly parade that no police seem to be inclined to stop even though the character has already publicly confessed to mass murder).

My big concerns with Dark Knight are Nolans tin ear for bad dialouge* and the Joker having a compelling agenda. And I'll just have to wait and see how all that plays out. in a couple months.

*am I the only one who finds Eckharts line reading of "She's told me all about you" to seem unnatural and more like a painfully obvious set up for the "I hope not" punchline? The line is valid, but the reading by Eckhart seems off- I really hope that particular take of it isn't in the film. If it is, and it plays as clunky as it seems to me now, then I lay the ultimate blame on Nolan.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

I certainly am. I was and still am very excited about Iron Man and Indy IV, but The Dark Knight is easily my most anticipated flick of the summer(and probably of the past couple years).

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

Well, the marketing seems pretty much only focused on the Joker (sadly, even more so since Heath Ledger's death), so in order to not spoil certain things, one-liners are all they have to put in the trailer.
Those clunky punchlines you mention are all over Batman Begins, and sometimes annoy me. I would have addressed those to Goyer, but he didn't write the script for the sequel. Nolan's to 'blame' (I don't want to sound as harsh) for that too, I think.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

Brian, I agree 100%.

I think its a generally good/great movie (not just a good Batman movie), but it does have noticeable flaws and they are the flaws of the director more than anyone else.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

Say it with me everyone:

BULLSH.....



Jack Nicholson was basically playing himself with green hair. Obviously it works which is why he wins lots of awards for doing that with every film. Sure, he's always the same but he's damn good at it. And that's all that matters, that's why we love him

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

I think he will have a working agenda based on a piece of dialogue from the trailer "Youll see,Im gonna show ya"

It made me think of KJ - the point hes trying to make where all it takes to turn someone normal into him is one bad day.

(All spoilers below can be seen in the trailer)

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

But this is the Joker were taking about and his motives arent like most other criminals. I like the clip inthe trailer of....
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


But my favorite piece of the trailer is this
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

The wait is torture.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

I agree, that's what he does best. That doesn't mean he can't play different roles (About Schmidt was an excellent, yet underrated performance) but Nicholson will be remembered for those crazy extravagant roles.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

Am I the only one who wishes they hadn't recast Rachel?

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

I thought Katie held her own with some huge heavyweights, and wasn't thrilled to see her replaced, tho since they did I was happy it was with MG.
It would have been ideal had she been cast originally, but...

The Dawes character was perfectly sound conceptually, but what bothers me upon revisiting the film is, again, the dialouge the character is given. The end scene between her and Bruce is just full of tortured prose that obfuscates a great sentiment (that Bruce didn't really come back from his 7 year exile, The Batman showed up instead).
And none of that is Katies fault.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

Personally, I thought Katie Holmes was by far the weakest part of BB. She's not a good actress IMO and I'm glad she's not involved in The Dark Knight.

Regarding the criticism of Nolan's dialogue, all I'll say is that it's like Shakespeare compared to what I've seen in most superhero movies. If you want ridiculous lines, listen to some of the crap in the Spider-Man movies. I love the first two flicks of that trilogy, but both of them have some PAINFULLY bad dialogue. Same goes for the Superman movies, X-Men movies, etc. In my opinion, Batman Begins has the best writing and acting of any comic book movie I've seen yet and I'm expecting nothing less from TDK.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

I didn't have a problem with Katie Holmes in BB until I saw it again. She's just not very natural. Everyone else in the movie seems to inhabit their roles fine. She just fails to sell that she's Rachel Dawes. Her performance is just a whole lot of sarcasm and posturing that screams to me that she's acting.

As far as Nolan's dialogue goes, it's pretty unnatural. Some of the stuff Bruce Wayne says in BB sounds like it belongs in a lecture on symbolism and fear. "As a man I'm flesh and blood. I can be ignored, I can be destroyed. But as a symbol - as a symbol, I can be incorruptible, I can be everlasting." I love it.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

I initially wished they would have just written Dawes out instead of recasting, but I've become sold on Gyllenhall doing the role. She has real talent and gravitas, neither of which Holmes possesses (IMNSHO). While I'm not a huge fan of recasting, I'm on the positive side for this one.

I know it's art, and it's subjective - but I cannot fathom not going apeshit (in a good way) over what we've seen of Ledger's performance as the Joker. In all, we've seen maybe 10 minutes of it (two trailers + the prologue). If you've seen the prologue, he is simply amazing. His body language, his voice, everything just communicates that there's something off and dangerous about this guy.

I'm completely stoked for this film.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

Maybe I missed something, but why is everyone assuming the Joker would have to be recast for the third film?

If anything, i'm assuming he's going to be killed in the second.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

another thing that i have been giving some thought to lately is to tie different characters from the DCU in to this, with work going on for SUPERMAX, to bad at some point that Bruce doesnt get a call from Oliver Queen, both are rich business men, so their is a tie in with out bringing Green Arrow into the movie, but at least gets the name out in public.

Marvel is doing a good job now of trying to make it so that all of their characters exist in the same world, i dont see that happening in the DC one. and that is a shame. just small things, would make it work.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

I thought Nolan said somewhere (can't remember where) that he didn't want the Joker killed off in the second film. I don't know if it's true, or if it has changed since then (I guess not). It would also be more true to the character of Batman, who doesn't kill in the comics (if Batman would kill Joker in this film, of course).
I actually hope that he doesn't get killed in the film. Not because he's a great character, but it's different. I'm getting a bit tired of every villain getting killed in the end of the picture, and it's not even by the hero too, most of the time. Apparently it's okay to get a villain killed, but not by the hero of the picture .

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

I finally got around to watching the trailers and I am very much unimpressed. I liked the first film well enough to see this one, and to know that it will be a least competent. But despite all the explosions, and money shots, the trailers just felt flat and lifeless.

--
H

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

Exactly. That first 6 min. was enough to sell me on his performance and I have no doubt that his portrayal of The Joker will be as good, if not better than Nicholson's.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

Saw the first 6 minutes at the Imax in NYC and was WOW WOW WOWed by it all. First off, it's a shame they didn't do the entire film in Imax because it was nuts seeing such clarity on screen in a feature. Just obliterates 35mm conversions to Imax away.

Ledger, even behind that mask, was imposing. He felt creepy. I so cannot wait to see this film.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

Well, that makes one of you

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

Me, too. Especially when it's based on a comic book where the equivalent line of dialogue is "Criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot. So I must have a disguise that will strike fear into their hearts. Something black, terrible. A bat! That's it, I'll become a bat!". I love pulpy dialogue.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

""As a man I'm flesh and blood. I can be ignored, I can be destroyed. But as a symbol - as a symbol, I can be incorruptible, I can be everlasting."

I agree thats a great line.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

Sometimes, in the case of a line like that it's not so much the words but the delivery. If this were say, "Batman & Robin" that line verbatim would probably come off as terrible as any of Arnold Schwarzenegger's line readings in that film. Because Bale spoke it with both subtlety and with a calm, thoughtful attitude it worked great. For him it wasn't some grand comic book "Eureka!" moment it was an intelligent thought process.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

While I'll agree that the second trailer isn't the greatest - I like it more because of the film it's promoting rather than any inherent structural coolness - the first trailer is simply f*ckin' great. Great use of "floating" dialogue, blank screens, and iconic shots. The Joker's voiceover at the beginning, addressing Bats (presumably), gives me chills, as it's so spot on for the characters. It teases us without spoiling anything, and gives a very quick summary of the playing field for the new flick.

~~~~~~

The viral campaign has, as far as I can tell, gone completely silent since the second trailer debuted. My guess - and it's only a guess, based on my own hunches and nothing else - is that there is one final stage left: sneak screenings. I'd expect to see something ramp up mid to late June - maybe even the first week of July - with screenings a few days before 7/18.

Of course, I could be utterly wrong, and the viral campaign could be done, with traditional marketing now taking the lead.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

After knowing a bit about the plot, I'm not so sure the "see to them, you're just a freak...like me" line is directed at the Batman, but instead at a post-scarred Harvey Dent. It makes sense in either case.

Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)

That Empire magazine is pretty cool.