New editions of 4 Muppet movies coming soon! Widescreen confirmed. - Page 7

Umm...sorry...I couldn't POSSIBLY disagree more.

I don't think there's a fan of MUPPET CHRISTMAS CAROL who would EVER feel the movie is better off without "Without Love is Gone." It's like ripping the soul out of the movie, in one of the most dramatic moments of the film.

Have you seen the movie? Frankly, this is the kind of comment that sounds like it's originating from someone who's never seen it. I've yet to see, hear, or read from any filmmaker involved in that movie OR fan who feels the movie is better off without that song!

Bottom line is this song is CRUCIAL to the film. The director WANTED it there. No sensible person who's seen both versions would ever feel the movie plays better without it...not unless you're a five-year-old who has to take a piss.

Hi. I'm a big fan of The Muppet Christmas Carol and I think "When Love is Gone" slows down the film considerably. It's not a terrible song by any means, and it should be included as an option (which it will be, albeit in pan & scan), but it does mess with the pacing of an otherwise tight and constantly pleasing movie.

I would consider myself sensible and not a 5-year-old, but since you seem to be speaking for everyone who has ever seen the movie, I guess you know better.

Since this isn't directed at me, I should probably just keep my mouth shut....

but has anyone else noticed that everyone permissive of this release and telling everyone to drop it (as an HTF discussion) has a Disney thingy in their sig-line?

And that's not even going into that you'd prefer the artists who made the film have no say in it, just the studio....

I think the DIRECTOR knows better than you do, but I guess that doesn't mean anything for some posters of this thread provided the movie is in 16:9

I already own the movie in widescreen since I imported the Latin Americas release which comes with extras and widescreen except it sans the "When Love is Gone" song so I'll probably be passing on this DVD release unless that changes, but I'm all for Treasure Island!

Andrew,

Stop. Your lack of understanding is no excuse for this kind of behavior. I'm not a representative for Disney. I chose to VOLUNTEER to review DVDs for the studio for HTF...for free, just like every other DVD reviewer at HTF reviews titles for free and is in NO WAY a representative of their chosen studio. Luke is a fan of Disney films and has created his own site to catalog and chart titles for DVD release.

Your comments are unjustified (did you even *read* the thread where I started the phone campaign to try to get Christmas Carol OAR???) and insulting to those of us who have spent YEARS working hard to try to educate these studios (Disney, Warner, Fox, and others) about how to improve their DVD product. But aside from that, remarks like yours are not permitted in HTF discussion. If you value your participation here at this forum, you need to keep your unfounded accusations to yourself.

If this is difficult for you then I suggest you do a little research in the post history here if you'd like "evidence" that Luke and I are not spokemen for the DVD marketing department. Far from it (I thought that giving you that link to the phone-campaign thread would end all doubt). But whatever you continue to personally believe, your insults and accusing statements need to stop NOW.

p.s. I don't remember telling HTF members to drop discussion. In fact, I remember ***repeatedly encouraging*** HTF members who share your point of view to call/contact Disney so you can have your opinion heard and possibly make a difference for this title. Do you think that Disney *wants* me to encourage consumers to call and complain to them to try to get them to change their release plans for a DVD that's already long into production?

Ron,

Sorry to let things get out of hand....

I didn't intend for the conversation to go in this direction, said as much, then ignored that decision.

My bad.

Regions 2 and 4 are both getting these Special Editions and they haven't gotten P&S at all previously, so maybe the X-Mas Carol will have the song....

Though no one's ever had it at all except the US

If the R2 versions do indeed include a 16x9 WS version with the song and the R1 version does not...that will be a good reason to get a Region-free DVD player for lots of muppet fans...and I hope will help encourage some folks to contact Disney and express your dissatisfaction (Many times other regions get stuff that R1 folks do not...like the gorgeous "orignal" 5.1 mix on Mary Poppins that other regions were able to enjoy versus the 2.0 down-mix that R1 viewers have to tolerate).

So far my rep hasn't found any info to report...but I've let him know about the fan-base's desire to see the "full length feature film" in the 16x9 OAR version...explaining that the P/S containing the song won't go very far to please HT enthusiasts as the P/S version really isn't an option for them to enjoy the film in the first place.

I hope that any folks visiting this thread who care about this issue at all have taken the time to contact Disney and express their opinion.

Thanks for the Update Andrew. Keep us posted if you learn anything more.

It's pointless to complain at this point. They've already finished the masters and MUPPET CHRISTMAS is *CUT* in 16:9 and full-length in P&S. Needless to say this is going to be a NO SALE for a lot of fans of the movie.

I hope Andrew is right and one of the international DVDs gets it right, but I'd say the chances of that are slim to none seeing that no DVD has had "When Love Is Gone" in widescreen (just the laserdisc, ironically enough).

???

Expressing your opinion to Disney may or may not affect this particular R1 DVD release...but this is NOT the last time Disney Studios will deliver A Muppet Christmas Carol to home video. Would you like the next DVD (Blu ray?) of this title to include the song...even if the forthcoming release does not? Or would you rather just get upset when this title comes out in 1080P without the song either?


If this title *does* come out without the song for the OAR version on the forthcoming R1 DVD, letting Disney know why you and your family chose *not* to buy it will have a very real affect.


It was CONSUMER INPUT over the last DVD coming out in P/S only that caused the marketing team to opt for dual-aspect ratio on this DVD release...not to mention strengthened their commitment to OAR for many other titles that otherwise would have suffered the same P/S-only fate.

Over 2 years ago I started a thread here at HTF to urge consumers to contact Disney because I was TICKED OFF at folks here at HTF complaining to each other about their grievances with Disney's decision...only to find out when I contacted Disney myself (via that toll free number) that I was the FIRST PERSON to have complained TO THEM about the P/S-only decision. That's right...after reading hundreds of posts here at HTF with members whining about the P/S only decision...it turns out that NO ONE had even bothered to call that toll-free number and tell the MOUSE their opinion on the matter.

That was one pro-OAR phone call their marketing team had to weigh against the hundreds of "I hate black bars on my TV" calls from Walmart shoppers. We HT enthusiasts view decisions about issues like OAR as a matter of principle...but marketing folks usually view them as a matter of BUSINESS.

The answer?

GIVE THEM A BUSINESS REASON TO MAKE THE DECISION YOU WANT.

Got news for you...Disney is not in the habbit of screening the internet for discussion so they can cater to the whims of enthusists posted on esoteric home-theater chat groups. However, they ARE in the habit of responding to customer feedback they get via their toll-free feedback number.

If fans of this title don't even bother to contact Disney and let their marketing team know how they feel and what they want, then they have no right complaining about what Disney gives them.

Asserting that Disney "should already know" may reflect the way we'd like for things to be, but does absolutly NOTHING to actually CHANGE the status-quo. What does is calling that number on the back of your Disney DVDs.

David, I understand your point. It IS a good point to call and voice your displeasure for future reference -- but I'm sorry, is it too much to ask for them to get it right this time out?

It'll be YEARS before we get another version of this movie on DVD. Right now the most satisfactory presentation of Muppet Christmas Carol is a Laserdisc that came out 11 years ago!!

I admit I am more than frustrated at why stuff like this happens -- especially now, when MOST studios tend to know what consumers want. Subsequently, I don't think the complaints will only come from "whims of enthusists posted on esoteric home-theater chat groups."

How many labels actually will put a Restored, Full Length version of a movie in P&S -- and then the CUT version in 16:9? I can't remember anytime this has happened, where a studio completely missed the boat and included the "proper Director's version" in cropped full-frame -- on the same DVD as the "proper" ratio, but in the abbreviated version of the film!

Mike,

excellent points. I'm not trying to disagree with anything you're saying. I'm just trying to add one more thing to it: I'm suggesting that fans tell those who can make a difference in addition to telling each other in this thread.

"Should" we even have to have these issues to complain about? I agree with you that we shouldn't. But inspite of that we apparently do. So I'm just encouraging people to share their thoughts with the party that can affect change for the better.

While it may be years before the "next" version of this title gets released...the pain or reward will be a whole lot greater when we're talking about a 1080 24P transfer of this film...let's be sure by that point the marketing department doesn't miss the mark.

I've recently purchased the german rc2 release. The song you mentioned is missing (I don't think we had that one in any previous version here) but picture quality has been vastly improved compared to the horrible pan&scan disc.
I'm quite content with that new special edition, nice work (as far as I am concerned).

Dennis,

thanks for posting! Please share as much detail as you can with us...we'd love to know. Does your DVD set also include a P/S version with "the missing song"? What type of display do you have? How does the PQ and sound compare with other DVDs in addition to the previous (horrible) P/S?

thanks for posting...I hope to get my muppet DVDs in the next couple of weeks...it's going to be tough reviewing them all at once but I'm tough

Well, there's been quite a discussion regarding screencaps here lately... but I think some plain shots might be of interest.
The "old" pictures are from the initial pan&scan release, the "new" ones from the recent disc (which only contains a 16x9 version without the missing song).

Oh well, I'm not allowed to post links... what a pity. I'll try to send them via pm.

Dennis,

thank you so much for taking the time to do this (I think you have to have a minimum number of posts before the system lets you post image directly?). Here are Dennis' screen caps:

Beautiful. Looks like the difference between "video" and "film". I can't wait to review these discs and see them projected on the big screen based on these screen caps here. It's clear tha the old 4x3 master was a legacy transfer probably intended originally for VHS and the 16x9 transfer looks bran-new for this DVD. Doesn't negate the issue of the 'missing' song, but at least it looks like the transfer is right. I've got my fingers crossed that other 3 titles will fare as well...the Muppet movie and Muppet Caper look HORRIBLE on Columbia's WS versions...loads of grain and EE. Dennis...by any chance are you getting a hold of those as well...more screen caps???

I agree DaViD, those screengrabs are amazing. I am hoping that the R2 UK version of the film will include the missing song...

Hmm.

I know I just got here and I'm still catching up, but can anyone answer with authority if the "Muppet Christmas Carol" ever played in any theaters with the song "When Love Is Gone" intact?

My wife and I saw the film on opening day in Oklahoma, bought the soundtrack immediately and I don't recall being surprised that there was an extra song on the soundtrack that wasn't heard in the film. However, to be honest, I've watched my laserdisc so many times that I can't imagine the song NOT being there, so it just might be my mind playing tricks. I asked the wife and she thought the song has always been there also.

i just wish the commentaries would carry over

Very exciting. I will definitely be buying The Muppet Movie and The Great Muppet Caper. I love the old-school Muppets. Anything from the Muppets while Jim Henson was alive is pretty much great. I love The Muppet Christmas Carol too, but it just can't quite match the Henson-era stuff. Comparing Christmas Carol to The Muppet Movie and Great Muppet Caper reveals a big difference. It seems that when Jim Henson died, the Muppets lost their ultra-wacky, almost subversive humor and became more kid-friendly.

Hopefully these DVDs will have some great extras. I noticed on IMDb that Muppet Movie director James Frawley is still alive, so a commentary would be great. Of course, Frank Oz is still around too. But I'll buy them anyway.

Barry,

I agree in general with your assessment of muppets before/after Jim...but have you seen the Muppet Wizard of Oz? I watched it through the other night and was shocked to find it played right into that adult-oriented sense of humor just like the old stuff. It was VERY funny, and didn't feel watered down for "kids" at all. "Subversive" would be the perfect word to desribe the *wacky* humor in Muppet-Oz.

I wanted to post a review of it but ran out of time back when it first came out. I may post a review of Oz along with these other Muppet DVDs if time permits...

Ok...those screeners still haven't shown up!?! Maybe tonight...

can't wait...and i agree on your OZ take...some jokes were very adult minded and I thought it was a good throwback, hopefully disney will keep with this in coming years.

guess what the UPS man brought to my door this afternoon...

(one smile for each title...)

Anxiously awaiting "X-Mas Carol" WS running time....

Could some one clue me in where exactly in the movie the "extra" scene is supposed to appear in Christmas Carol?

The specs say that the P/S is the "extended version" and the WS is the "theatrical"...I'd like to compare them both where the missing scene is inserted...

appreciated!

You mean the difference between the director's preferred edition and the edited edition?

The flashback to Scrooge with the girl in the snowy park. She sings or she doesn't. There's nothing "extra" about it.