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New editions of 4 Muppet movies coming soon! Widescreen confirmed. - Page 5

post #121 of 242
8/26/05 at 6:23am
Was the song cut from the original P&S DVD as well?
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post #122 of 242
8/26/05 at 6:35am
It was on the P&S DVD, it was on the VHS, it was on the Laserdisc....

The only place it isn't is on the R2 and R4 Muppet Christmas Carol releases, which are apparently sourced from the Laserdisc transfer (the picture moves up and down, imperceptibly--I made a full version from my Brazil DVD and my LaserDisc, for personal viewing).

This news is really disappointing, because there's no reason to get Christmas Carol without that song. Not only are the cuts abrupt, but it's also not the version people have been seeing for the last 11 years.
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post #123 of 242
8/26/05 at 6:56am
Quote:
This news is really disappointing, because there's no reason to get Christmas Carol without that song. Not only are the cuts abrupt, but it's also not the version people have been seeing for the last 11 years.


Amen Andrew. I recall seeing the movie theatrically and noticing the jarring cut with that song being removed -- that whole sequence, and the film as a whole, loses something without "When Love is Gone."

I also hope the PR release is wrong, but you're right: EVERY American video release of the movie (be it VHS, laser, DVD) has had the song in it...it's been the R2 and R4 discs that have been missing it.

Does anyone know someone at Disney who can be emailed over this -- before it's too late?
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post #124 of 242
8/26/05 at 10:24am
I'll see if my Disney rep has any news on that (the cut song) as well...
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post #125 of 242
8/26/05 at 10:47am
This is what Disney sent me:

Quote:
Thank you for your e-mail regarding MUPPET CHRISTMAS CAROL. We appreciate your interest.

Technical details are not yet available for this title.


Which is odd, since I thought that we'd all be reading them....
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post #126 of 242
8/26/05 at 1:05pm
What's the story on that song? Why was it cut? I thought all the music in MCC was original and wouldn't have to be cleared.
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post #127 of 242
8/26/05 at 1:14pm
Thread Starter 
Jonathan,

All the music was written expressly for the film, but it was probably cut because kids squirmed in a test screening. I have no knowledge whatsoever of why, but that would seem to be it, if that's the rationale the studio would later use to cut a song from "Pocahontas".
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post #128 of 242
8/26/05 at 1:26pm
I believe Disney cut the song w/o Brian Henson's knowledge or approval and he insisted it be reinserted for video.

Someone on Amazon points out that, on the UK DVD, the scene is a) cut and b) singled out as one of the most important in the "Making of" documentary.

I think "Christmas Carol," all in all, is best Muppets film and it's incredible that lack of respect Disney gives/gave it....
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post #129 of 242
8/26/05 at 3:13pm
I will be beyond pissed if that song is cut, it is probably my favorite song in the whole movie, and that's saying a lot given how much I love all the music in that film.

Will eagerly await answers.
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post #130 of 242
8/26/05 at 3:19pm
My Disney rep is checking on it...
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post #131 of 242
8/26/05 at 5:25pm
[fingers crossed]... It better be there...

NO "LOVE IS GONE" AND OAR = NO SALE

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post #132 of 242
8/26/05 at 6:41pm
I'm actually looking for reasons not to buy it. This could be it.
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post #133 of 242
8/27/05 at 10:23am
I've wanted WS versions of Treasure Island and Christmas Carol for a while.
I'm undecided on replacing the other films. If the quality or features demand it, I will though. I love everything MUPPET.
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post #134 of 242
8/28/05 at 7:40am
Quote:
All the music was written expressly for the film, but it was probably cut because kids squirmed in a test screening.


Film Score Monthly interviewed Miles Goodman years back -- who scored the movie -- and he said that was EXACTLY the reason. Obviously if you've seen the film it's one of the top dramatic moments in it. Cutting the song makes no sense.

Henson was annoyed Disney removed the song, and insisted that it was put back in on video.

Back then the studio got upset when kids got too restless during moments like that, and cut "When Love is Gone" for the same reason that "If I never Knew You" was axed from POCAHONTAS.

If the song is gone from the new DVD, it's a total NO SALE for me!
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post #135 of 242
8/28/05 at 5:16pm
We all know that pacifying children is more important than artistry.
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post #136 of 242
8/30/05 at 6:59pm
Has anybdy heard back from Disney concerning Muppet Christmas Carol's runtime?
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post #137 of 242
8/30/05 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Has anybdy heard back from Disney concerning ... runtime?


Post #125---
"Thank you for your e-mail regarding MUPPET CHRISTMAS CAROL. We appreciate your interest.

Technical details are not yet available for this title."

They e-mailed me back right away.
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post #138 of 242
8/31/05 at 9:29am
my rep has not reported any new back to me yet.
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post #139 of 242
8/31/05 at 6:10pm
A mixed blessing:

Quote:
Muppet Christmas Carol will be featuring both versions of the film: Full Screen "Extended Version" - with the song "When Love is Gone" and the original Widescreen "Theatrical Version" without the song the 85 minute time is referring to the widescreen version only the fullscreen version is approximately 3 minutes longer.

I'm choosing to view this as a glass half full. I hope you choose do the same. Realize that Disney is trying to give folks a choice...and is working within a restricted budget at the same time--dynamic branching with 2 versions of the film wasn't really an option.

Folks. Don't slit your writs yet over the choice to present the WS version as the "theatrical" and the PS as the "extended"...

And keep your eye on the prize...when Muppet Christmas Carol shows up on Blu-ray...*that* will be definitive version in *every* way...
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post #140 of 242
8/31/05 at 6:22pm
Quote:
I'm choosing to view this as a glass half full. I hope you choose do the same.


Half full? What glass?

Disney isn't giving any reasonable person a "choice." Amusingly, the pan and scan is for kids, who the d**m song was cut for in the first place! Your/their (I can't tell a difference) logic is amusing....

Disney is not releasing "Muppet Christmas Carol" widescreen--they're releasing some cut-up version.

Is that this "remastered transfer" is the same one Disney's been using around the rest of globe? That isn't anamorphic....

What a complete and utter gyp.

[rant]I think Warner ought to take this under advisement and release King Kong colorized, but include a 15-minute condensed version in the original black and white.[/rant]

(and that link to Widescreen Advocate is really bothersome--you aren't one)

ATTN to a MOD: Can we get a subject line update to reflect this wonderful new news....
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post #141 of 242
8/31/05 at 6:51pm
Wow. Someone's in a bad mood.

While I wish that they would switch the format that "When Love Is Gone" is in, at least it's on there. And who said DaViD wasn't a widescreen advocate (besides you)? He's saying that it's a good thing that we'll at least have access to the song, rather than either having another fullscreen-only DVD or a widescreen DVD without the song. I agree it's better than nothing.
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post #142 of 242
8/31/05 at 7:30pm
No I agree. This is a glass is completely empty situation. I'm never going to watch the cruddy Pan & Scan version, so they are not including "The Love Is Gone" to me. Limited buget? That's a scam. They had to make a new transfer because this is the first anamorphic release of the film. How hard is it to use the same complete print that the Pan & Scan side was made from? This is a rip off. A total rip off. I was soooo excited and now I'm just angry. Disney is going to be hearing from me.
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post #143 of 242
8/31/05 at 8:11pm
I honestly thought that was a joke when I first read it.

Now I realize it's for real.

This doesn't really change the situation. Rather than have to mess around with the DVD, I'll just have my old VHS at the right spot so I can pause the disc, watch the song, and go back to the disc.

Come on, Disney. You've almost got it right! Don't screw it up now!

I see no logic in this at all. Pan & scan is for the dumb kids and their families who hate black bars, right? Aren't those the same kids who start squirming when the mushy song comes on? This makes absolutely no sense at all.
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post #144 of 242
8/31/05 at 8:22pm
MAYBE Disney felt that releasing the theatrical cut in its proper aspect ratio is what people wanted. They might have thought "The fans always want the movie as it was in the theatre so we'll put that version on the disc". Obviously, they didn't take into that the song was deleted by people not involved in the creation of movie. I guess I'm saying that this might not have been a diabolical plan on Disney's part. They just might not have realized that the theatrical cut is compromised. Or, in short, they tried to do the right thing but screwed up.

I guess either way it doesn't matter since it's not what fans or the people who made the movie wanted.
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post #145 of 242
8/31/05 at 8:30pm
Quote:
MAYBE Sony felt that...


I think you mean Disney. Sony has enough problems of their own. :p)
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post #146 of 242
8/31/05 at 8:32pm
Oops. My above theory has been corrected for the proper company name
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post #147 of 242
8/31/05 at 8:52pm
Why do the Muppets always get screwed? I was excited about season sets, then there were cuts....now this....I give up.
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post #148 of 242
8/31/05 at 8:56pm
Quote:
They had to make a new transfer because this is the first anamorphic release of the film. How hard is it to use the same complete print that the Pan & Scan side was made from?


It's also possible that the WS version is a new transfer from a print w/o the song, while the P&S version is simply the same transfer from the previous DVD. Maybe they felt the print used to make the P&S was inferior in quality to the print they used to make the new WS.

And now just re-reading what I just wrote, that makes the most sense to me.
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post #149 of 242
8/31/05 at 9:06pm
That's what I'm guessing; they probably couldn't do a good anamorphic transfer with that left in- I have the laserdisc which includes "When Love Is Gone" but of course it's not an anamorphic transfer. I actually didn't know this was added from the theatrical version until it was pointed out to me (I had just started working at a theater that was showing it and didn't get to see it til a few days AFTER Christmas) but being a completist I'd want to go back and compare how it plays out with the song cut. Of course they SHOULD use the seamless-branching feature like "Rocky Horror" does to either include or exclude one song, but I'm not going to get mad about it.

BTW I just today found the debate about the "Land Of The Dead" theatrical vs. unrated versions, I'm so sorry I joined it too late to offer my view on the preservation of theatrical versions. I'll just say I probably won't be getting that movie.
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post #150 of 242
8/31/05 at 9:22pm
I find it hard to believe that a print with the song would look so much more terrible than one without the song.
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