More Night Court?? - Page 3

If people don't want to buy a "best of" then that's certainly their decision. But you'll no longer have any right to gripe about the absence of future box sets. It has been made very clear that further season sets will hinge on sales of this comilation disc and the first season set.

BS. I in no way give up my right to complain about a lack of season sets because I refuse to by their best-of. That's ridiculous. It has NOT been made clear that my buying a best-of set will lead to further season sets. If the studio wants to release the season 2 box set, bundled together with a best-of collection, then I would be faced with the prospect of having to buy a best-of to get a season set. As I said earlier, strong sales of the best-of is as likely to lead to more best-ofs as it is to lead to season sets. Where, in writing, in a binding contract, has the studio agreed that if there are at least X number of sales of the best-of, that they will release more season sets?

I fell for this crap with It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World. Everyone said buy the crappy dvd, cause it'll send a message to the studio and they'll do a proper release. Well I bought the crappy dvd (I've never watched it of course), and there's no sign of a proper dvd.

There's a right reason and a wrong reason to buy a best-of set. The right reason is cause you want that best-of set. The wrong reason is cause you think it'll lead to season sets. That's just wishful thinking.

And just because I can, I will take this opportunity to continue to exercise my right to gripe about the absence of future box sets despite my not buying the best-of set. "Hey studio, I didn't buy your stupid best-of. Where the hell are my season sets? Gripe, gripe, gripe."

Right on George!

If indeed S2/S3 together is 44 episodes then they could always release both the same day and offer $10 off if you buy both. Certainly a company as successful as Warner could figure out something to help S2 sell if they actually tried. It wasn't like there was any real promotion for S1.

"Gee, we have this series that really sold poorly when we released the first season. Barely broke even. We know from experience that chances are any other seasons we release will sell just as poorly.

Now, some of our marketing people think that the problem isn't a lack of interest in the show, but the fact that the cast in the first two seasons isn't the one most people associate with the series. They think seasons 3 through 7 might sell a whole lot better.

Here's a good idea. To test this theory we'll spend a ton of money producing both the 2nd season we think is going to sell like crap and the third season we only hope is going to do better We'll basically double our production costs to get out two seasons, which we'll then bundle together, mind you, forcing people who don't want S2 at all to buy it, and we'll either charge them twice the price of a single season or maybe knock a few bucks off it. That'll work.

It certainly makes more sense than that other suggestion - that we put out a few episodes with that hot chick from S3 as part of our 'Best of' series and see if there really is a measurable difference in sales. That would get us the information we want at a fraction of the cost. Can't do that."

I sincerely hope that none of the people urging this do marketing or financial planning for the businesses they work for, because if they do none of them are going to have jobs for very long. Emotion is a poor substitute for thought when making financial decisions.

Night Court tanked. They're ain't gonna be any more season sets - unless sales of the "Best of Christine" set does well enough to change some minds at Warner Bros. Nobody is saying that WB has announced this as any kind of test. It is just clear that the only thing that could cause them to reverse their previous decision is a success with this disc. So of course it makes perfect sense for the people who want further full season releases to refuse to take the one action that might get them what they want.

I love this kind of "logic".

BTW, the Friends analogy makes no sense. WB released the "Best of" Friends sets because they (like much of the industry) was skeptical about full season sets and whether their appeal would extend beyond a cult drama like The X-Files to mainstream comedies with less continuity which were available 9 times a day via cable and broadcast syndication. That was a decision made in the early, experimental days of TV-on-DVD. They were later persuaded that season sets were the way to go - as were the other studios. (Everybody forgets what a gamble Fox took with The X-Files and how many people thought it would tank, or that any success would not be transferable to other shows.) The Friends "Best of" sets sold very well, by the way. It is just that when given the choice, most people preferred the season sets, which sold even better.

Night Court was released as a full-season set
and it failed to find a big enough market to be continued. The post-facto "Best of" set is either a way to estimate interest in a Markie Post set or --- well, actually there isn't really another reason that makes sense to be doing this release. Why spend the money up-front to get out a few discs of a show that hasn't been selling well and which is making money in syndication? These "Best of" sets (like the "pilot and one episode" sets released last year) only make sense as marketing tools. The loss-leader "intro" sets were a way to get people to sample a show that was already out on DVD that they might be familiar with. I suspect the "Best of" sets we're seeing now have a similar function. Of course, that won't do us any good as long as people don't buy 'em.

Regards,

Joe

Right. They spent the money to clean up, master and mass-produce S1 without actually trying to sell it. They didn't want to make their money back or have the release be a success. Because, like most corporations, Warner Bros. is in the business of losing money and it doesn't try to sell its own products.

Like everyone else, I am HIGHLY disappointed to hear that Warener may well not release subsequent seasons of Night Court. I did buy the first season set, albeit a while after it was released when Amazon was running a big discount on it. I am generally reluctant to begin collections of long running shows because of the investment of time and money in them, plus the ever looming possibility that the studio will abandon releases of later seasons. I guess my reluctance was well-founded in the case of NC.

One speculation I would like to offer as to why the season one set sold (apparently) so poorly, is that, as an abbreviated season, it was packaged in basically the same way as a single disk sized release. You have to believe that most retail buyers searching through the TV box sets at their local B&M are going to be less likely to lay out $20-$30 for something that looks like a single disk set (with half as many episodes), when they could outlay the same cash for a multi-disk, full season set of another show. I think the same phenomenon is what sunk the sales of the first season release of Barney Miller (one of my favorite shows that now seems hopelessly dead on DVD).

In summary, I think that studios would see significantly better sales for some of these series with short initial seasons by simply packaging the first couple of seasons together as a single release (as Seinfeld and a few other shows have done). Fans of the show would have some confidence that they could more easily collect the whole run (they would be that much closer right away), and the casual buyer would feel they were getting more for their money.

The problem is that the studios that do these shortened season releases are really being greedy up front. They don't want to lose out on the sales of an extra season set if the title proves popular, but instead they end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Joseph,

You can believe what you want, but I hope if you buy the best-of set that you enjoy that set, cause the odds are very, very, very, very, very high that it's not going to be followed up by season sets. You knock our 'marketing savvy', but turn around and give WAY too much credit to the actual marketing people there. If the best-of set sells well, the marketing gurus are almost certainly NOT going to conclude that season sets would therefore sell, but rather that people only want best-ofs. These are the same type of marketing minds that figured DIVX was a good idea, that think it's a good idea to pull a bunch of titles currently available in OAR, and re-release them only in pan & scan, that think 'family' films should all be pan & scan, that still provide a wide variety of horrible packaging for dvds, think it was a great idea to release syndicated cuts of shows like The Cosby Show and Roseanne, cause "95% of people don't know the difference or care", etc., etc. I don't know what convinced Fox to finally release season 2 of Mary Tyler Moore after season 1 didn't sell to their satisfaction, but it sure as hell wasn't great sales of a best of disc. And I'm still waiting for studio to pay attention to my purchase of It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World.

While I understand your opinon, Joseph, I'd rather not encourage bad behavior. To me, a "best of" set is pretty worthless, especially if afterwards, you release season sets.

The only reason a "best of" set makes sense is for the casual fan or for those who are not familiar with the show to get familiar with it. It doesn't make sense for us who are hard core fans. (Course, considering how cheap the first season disc is, it doesn't seem to make that much sense.)

And if the rest doesn't come out because I didn't buy the "best of" set, so be it. I have plenty of other things out there I want, and I can always record episodes off of TV Land if I want my fix.

Really, WB needs to understand their audience. The proper response, maybe, is to skip season 2 for the next release. Course, that wouldn't make my wife happy, since he's a fan of Billie, but maybe that would encourage sales. Maybe not, tho. WB seems to be just throwing material out there and seeing what sticks.

Jason

This is reminding me a lot of the Mad About You Collection. I've got the first two seasons of the show, and have continued to contemplate getting the best of collection. I already have the first season of Night Court and am once again on the fence.

Here's some reasons why a tv dvd set WON'T sell:

1.) The show and/or its star isn't as popular as the studio thought.

2.) Lousy packaging that doesn't draw attention to itself and doesn't attract impulse shoppers.

3.) Lousy quality dvd picture/sound, lack of extras, general amateurishness and cheesiness surrounding the entire release.

4.) Bad marketing, including: lack of advertising, high retail price point, too much competition from other dvds on date of release, and general lack of interest in the release on the part of the studio.


These above statements are very basic marketing principles that have to be factored together in order to make a dvd sell. Anybody who's been in a Business 101 class knows that a major studio won't put out a product thinking it won't sell. But they also have to juggle together all of the above (and much, much more) in order to be successful. Let's examine Night Court's release in these scenarios: 1) The show isn't as popular as the studio thought? Maybe. Night Court's been off the air for a long time now. It hasn't had the syndicated presence of, say, Friends, and may be off people's radars at present. It was a popular show in its day, but times and tastes change. In order to reignite interest in this show, the studio would have to play up the nostalgia angle, making older fans remember the show and why they liked it so much. 2) Lousy packaging: Nope! The Night Court actually had a very nice, smart-looking package. It's colorful, the cast looks friendly and the starry backdrop is in the spirit of the show itself. 3) Lack of quality: not so far as I can see. There aren't many extras, but the package as a whole has an air of great professionalism about it. A top-notch release, in my book. 4) Bad marketing: well, you know, when this came out, it came out rather quietly. I don't recall much advance notice or advertising on it at all. It just sort of appeared in the store one day. Clearly, the studio didn't consider it a major tv release. High price point? Kind of. It retailed for $29.95 for 13 eps, in a small package. I think it would have sold wildly at $19.95 or even $24.95 (with accompanying discounts at big box stores like BestBuy and Wal-Mart). People might have been feeling cheated about paying $29.95 for a small package like that. They may have thought it was a single disc set. I know there's only 13 eps and it makes sense to package it in a slim fashion, but people didn't necessarily understand all that. When Three's Company Season one came out, it was in a single disc/single case package. There were only 6 episodes in that and it was priced very low (I think it was about $10 in most shops). Night Court was $29.95 for only 13 episodes. Well, you can get an entire 22 episode season set of the Jeffersons, Soap, All in the Family or What's Happening? for about $24.95.

So do the math. Night Court may have popped out too quietly, may have been overpriced and overestimated. If I owned this property, I'd give it a second chance, because as has been stated, the show didn't really get going until later seasons. And if you fans above want it to be back, I remind you that the Christmas season is near. Go and buy a set of Season one and give it to somebody who you think would like it. All those extra sales may convince the studio to release season 2.



P.S.:
George, Mad Mad World is currently undergoing an extremely lengthy and pain-staking restoration process. I expect within the next couple of years it'll be re-released on dvd and will exceed your wildest expectations. Search the Mad Mad message board on imdb.com for more info.


P.P.S:
I remember now that 3's Company season one came out shortly after John Ritter died. The dvd sold rather well. Maybe if Harry Anderson kicks the bucket, we'll be in luck?

Perhaps I'm not finding what you are referring to. I did find one person who claimed that Robert Harris was restoring this, but Robert said here at HTF not long ago that there is no restoration going on. I certainly hope that a restored version does come out, however.

I say... cross your fingers that someone on Night Court lands on a huge tv series, something as popular as a Lost or Desperate Housewives. I think you can equate Lost's success to why we're seeing a Party Of Five season 2, plus, I remember a long time ago there were "no immediate plans" to release Lois And Clark, then Desperate Housewives came along and they rushed that baby out. Hell, there was on odd bomb released to DVD a year or two back for no apparent reason than that Jennifer Garner was on it.

Nothing helps an old series more than having one of it's stars on a current smash. But of course, Boston Legal is doing well and Warner's not going out of it's way for Murphy Brown's fans.

Hopefully they'll rectify that little Murphy Brown situation soon, too.

I agree, it ticks me off that they are treating Fresh Prince, which is on N@N about 20 times a night, well on DVD, while Murphy, which airs once in the dead of night, is still in DVD limbo. MB is such a better series and there is so much more to release. At least release all the seasons with Robert Pasterelli and Grant Shaud before abandoning it.

George: I was referring to Robert Harris' comments. If you go to imdb.com and click on the "restoration info please" thread, there are references to this. They also say that there was a minor restoration released internationally. Forgive me, maybe they've restored what they could and abandoned it. I'm sure I don't know.

JayB: you're so right about your last comment. The most forgettable series of all time, "Significant Others" was released on dvd just because little miss Alias, Jennifer Garner, was in it. Phoo! Who cares? But following that "star power" logic, I expect to see "Melrose Place" on dvd, just because Marcia Cross and Doug Savant from "Desperate Housewives" were in it.

But most of the stars of Night Court are kinda too old to make it big on another show (although they may be part of the ensemble). I don't think current celebrity status will get more Night Court released, but it would nice for everyone.

actually, I read on the Sitcoms Online blog a few weeks ago that Melrose is in the works for 2006

Well tell me then wise one Joseph, what promotion was there for the S1 box? Hollywood movies tank without promotion, so do DVDs. Get with it!

Bought it the day it came out... and started to worry when stuff that came out at that time were getting their next seasons released and no Night Court. Now the news about the Best Of? I did my part already... and I know the studios dont think about it in this way, but offering a season 1 set of a series with no committment to the rest? Just like when one of these shows pops up on tvland, nick, etc and u think "finally, i can get these recorded again" then the station yanks it from its lineup before it completes the series run. the longer the series lasted, worse odds of getting thru 1 or 2 complete runs.

Ticks me off (just like Barney Miller... and where is my Forever Knight S3...). Now i am gonna have to bear down and hope Night Court can hang on in TVLands lineup for the next year or so and tape them. sigh.

The reason why series like Hearts Afire and a ton of smaller shows got full releases while much bigger shows like Night Court get shafted are that the smaller DVD companies got hold of the former program. Night Court is a Warner property and they just will not give their holdings to smaller companies. It stinks, but we can protest on this point all we want and it will not change that policy.

Re: More Night Court??

Has enough time passed yet?

Still checking?


Night Court DVD news: Announcement for Night Court - The Complete 2nd Season | TVShowsOnDVD.com


Yaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy!!!!!!! (dances around the room...naked!)

Re: More Night Court??

Glad to see this finally. That was interesting that Ellen Foley was the female voice in Paradise by the Dashboard Light. I had no idea that was her.

Re: More Night Court??

Yup.

My wife and I had "met" when she and her parents were regular shoppers, for years, in the videogame/computer store I managed. One day Meat Loaf came to town for a concert, and we each went - separately. The next day my wife-to-be came into my store wearing a concert t-shirt, and I was like "hey, I was there last night!" Thus the (slow...took over a year from that point to get serious) start of beautiful relationship between two Meat Loaf nuts.

But I never made the Ellen Foley connection, and she had never watched the early years of Night Court. Then one day she showed me how her dad's friend in L.A. had sent a rare-ish CD to her, "Meat Loaf and Friends". I believe this was reissued later in a retail version, but with the tracks in a different order and with some different tracks...but she has the original version. The first track is "Paradise by the Dashboard Light" by Meat Loaf, with Ellen's vocals of course, and three other tracks by him are among the 12 included. The other eight tracks were by the "friends": Jim Steinman, Bonnie Tyler...and Ellen Foley. Whoa. Ellen Foley? Could it be the same one? Yep!

We found out it WAS the same Ellen, and that even on the "Dashboard Light" music video that was playing on MTV all the time (back then, anyway) the vocals were Ellen's, and that the lady shown visually on the concert stage with Meat (who put in quite the great performance!) is really just lip-syncing to Ellen's voice. She also sang with other bands, notably The Clash (the song "Should I Stay or Should I Go?," from their Combat Rock album, was reportedly written about lead singer Mick Jones' romance with Ellen!). Here's a pic I just Googled up, of Ellen in concert on her own:
http://www.newwavephotos.com/EllenFo...EllenFoley.jpg


You should hear those other tracks from Ellen on this CD I mention (yes, we still have it). We Belong to the Night, What's the Matter Baby and Night Out. I think it has a kind of "female rock power ballad" quality to the singing that most reminds me of The Runaways, the '80s girl band with Lita Ford, Joan Jett, Cherie Currie (seen in the movie Foxes) and others.

Re: More Night Court??

It's a little far off, but I'm really excited about season 2(I want it next week).

Here's to hoping WB continues and finishes this series.

Re: More Night Court??

I think Night Court is a good case of companies not putting a lot of thought into releases. Season sets are good, but in some cases a show took a while to find its audience before it became a hit. Trying to apply the 'if it doesn't sell well then screw it' mindset is just foolhardy. Especially with sitcoms since an entire season can be fit onto three DVDs and throwing out two seasons at a time wouldn't be an impossibility.

Re: More Night Court??

I'm glad the second year is coming, but to me the show really began to come into its own with the full-time arrival of Christine Sullivan in the third year. Also, we got Marsha Warfield as Roz Russell, and the gang was complete for the rest of the run.

Re: More Night Court??

I hate to say this but Warner Bros. has shown no faith in releasing this series for the past 4 years, so I have no faith in WB in that it will continue to release the series (other than in 4 year increments) after the second season is released. I'm most likely going to wait until season 3 or 4 ships before I choose to participate. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Re: More Night Court??

Exactly the kind of "logic" that leads to show being dropped. Because that's what the studios think when they spend money to release a show on DVD and it doesn't sell, then they cave-in to pressure from fans who say, "We love this show, give us more, we'll buy it!" and it still doesn't sell. When someone comes to the VP of marketing and says, "Let's release more Night Court, even though S2 sales sucked because everybody is waiting until the whole series has been released", that guy is going to say, "Fool me once..."

Anyway, I'm surprised that there weren't a bunch of posts about this show today, since Amazon.com sent out pre-order e-mails for the show. I, for one, will be buying, which will be one vote for continuing the series. "No sales" aren't votes at all, because the studios have no way of knowing who didn't buy their product.

Regards,

Joe

Re: More Night Court??

Season 2 may not have been the best season, however it is well worth picking up. You do get one episode with Christine.

I posted my review the other day.

The Moviezzz Blog: DVD REVIEW: NIGHT COURT: THE COMPLETE SEASON 2 (1984-1985)

Re: More Night Court??

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. There is absolutely no reason for me to spend $20-$30 on another set, just to get the 4-year cold shoulder again. I showed my faith as a consumer in Warner when I purchased the first set. And got screwed. It's time for them to pony up to the bar and prove themselves to me by releasing the next few seasons of the series in a respectable time frame. Until then, no sale.

Besides, with the economy in the state its in, WB won't continue with timely releases of this series. So I'll be exactly where I am now, only with an extra $30 in my pocket.

Oh, and that goes for The Drew Carey Show as well. Just one season release, bought it and nothing since then. Sound familiar?