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*** Official BATMAN BEGINS Discussion Thread - Page 20

post #571 of 712
7/12/05 at 9:07pm
I think Warner, assuming they follw the tone and style of this one for the sequel and use Joker, should seriously consider opening the the film in the Sept or Oct or the Feb/March 'dead zone'.
you make a strong, interesting film and people will keep coming to it.
because of the unamious goodwill established by the handling of the material in this film, combined with lure of a more popular/recognized antagonist, the next film will probably open much better than this one anyway- but i think it could really shine if its not lost in the pack chasing for simple minded summer movie kicks.


i'll tell ya, there are several people i know that would never have been interested in this film if it were merely 'the new batman movie'. it was the generally ecstatic endorsements that got them motivated and the quality of the story and treatment of the characters that had them recomending it to others after it was over.
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post #572 of 712
7/13/05 at 5:42am
"i just can't get enough of mignola's art".

In stores now is part 1 of a new 2 issue Hellboy story, The Island. Done by Mignola.

Hellboy and a couple pages of Mignola art are also in a issue on Dark Horse's The Goon. Issue 7 or 8 I believe.
And that book is recommended(Its the only comic book I read besides DHs Conan)You can check out some sample pages at Dark Horses website.
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post #573 of 712
7/13/05 at 10:14am
If you can pick up "The greatest Joker Stories ever told", especially if you can find the hardcover Joker's Dozen edition. A Joker's Dozen has 19 stories instead of the 13 of the original editio and is bound in garish purple leather with gold foil edged paper and a red place holder. It contains all of the best stories mentioned here like, "The Joker's Five Way Revenge" and the first Batman story featuring the Red Hood.
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post #574 of 712
7/13/05 at 9:20pm
Batman Begins is showing the Mark of a film getting good word of mouth dropping only 36% last weekend. This is good news instead of being a huge open and them fizzle the films got legs.
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post #575 of 712
7/14/05 at 4:52am
It deserves to be one of the two biggest hits of the summer (the other being Star Wars, which I don't think any film can surpass this year). Batman is, IMO, better than War of the Worlds, Fantastic Four and the other so-called blockbusters this year. It's mature, exciting drama and one of the best made films of the year.
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post #576 of 712
7/14/05 at 8:05am
Saw the movie again...this time on an Imax screen. Just great!
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post #577 of 712
7/14/05 at 8:19am
According to Box Office Mojo...

Domestic:$174,525,652,Overseas:$132,300,000
= Worldwide: $306,825,652

Im gonna try to see it one last time next week.
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post #578 of 712
7/14/05 at 9:24am
So how was it in IMAX? Worth the extra price?
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post #579 of 712
7/14/05 at 10:24am
I enjoyed my IMAX viewing of Batman Begins. I think a lot of IMAX theaters will be pulling the film after today because Charlie and the Chocolate Factory will be playing on IMAX starting tomrorrow.
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post #580 of 712
7/14/05 at 10:51am
I saw the midnight screening in IMAX and in a "Director's Hall" theater the next day, both at Springdale 18: Cinema de Lux in southwest Ohio. The "Director's Hall" theater clearly beat out the IMAX presentation in terms of audio, but the video presentations were the same. The IMAX theater was originally a regular theater, they just switched the screen and the speakers, so it's not like a theater originally made for IMAX. The screen had a wider aspect ratio (I think it was a 2.35:1 aspect ratio, whereas typical IMAX presentations are more like 4:3). While IMAX will probably beat out the regular theater most times, it's better in 35mm in some places, like in my case.
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post #581 of 712
7/14/05 at 12:35pm
I've seen it twice and if I can catch an Imax presentation I will.
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post #582 of 712
7/14/05 at 5:20pm
Quote:
I think a lot of IMAX theaters will be pulling the film after today because Charlie and the Chocolate Factory will be playing on IMAX starting tomrorrow.
Ooooh, snap! Thx for the reminder. Off to Moviefone.com . . .

-p
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post #583 of 712
7/25/05 at 5:47am
Saw this yesterday - my second time, and a good 5 weeks between viewings. The movie's even better than I remembered it being, and I've grown picky and cynical in my old age.

Gotta give props again to Nolan, Goyer and Bale: Bruce Wayne becomes a living, breathing man, and one we care about, thanks to great writing, directing and acting.

I like how, in some ways, there isn't a central villain; in this film, Batman's enemy is the overall corruption in Gotham and his own "newness" in his role as Batman.

I've said it before, but this viewing clinched it for me: the score just rocks. Perfect for the movie, it does what a score is supposed: underlines the themes and tones the filmmaker's trying to convey. Howard and Zimmer perfectly match the rusty sepia hue of the advertising and the film.

Even the Rachel Dawes character comes out better the second time. I still don't like the schmaltzy ending with Wayne and Dawes hand in hand in the ruins, but her role as Bruce's conscience is a good and necessary one. The scene where Rachel slaps Bruce is a powerful one.

Even the fight scenes were better the second time. I was able to follow them (with one exception) much better, and I think they'll be even easier to follow when seen on a TV screen. The one fight I think we SHOULD have seen clearly is when Batman takes down the circle of thugs at the docks; after he's already dispatched a bunch of them from the shadows (thought that was brilliant and well done). But it would have been awesome to see what Falcone saw - one man taking down 7 or 8.

According to boxofficemojo, the film's done $191M so far....with video release, the movie's going to break $250M easily. Hopefully, WB will let the film's critical and BO success speak, and we'll get a worthy sequel.
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post #584 of 712
7/25/05 at 6:27am
I am craving another viewing, but it might not happen. Maybe this weekend...

I do agree regarding the score. While not a great score on it's own (though not at all bad), it matches the film VERY well. You aren't going to out-theme Elfman's masterpiece, so they went a more emotional and serious route. It works for a more emotional and serious film.

Theatrically, the film *IS* going to pass $200M, with a very strong word of mouth push. That's a real win in today's summer market, and portends a very strong home release. I admit I was pretty worried after the opening weekend. Not because I want my pet film to be "the best", but simply because I wanted the creativity and choices to be rewarded, so we could get a second helping. Fortunately, the film IS as strong as some of us opined, and the audience got behind it.

As for Dawes, I always liked her. I thought Holmes did a good job with a well-written character. I liked the hand-in-hand ending. It wasn't really romantic, more a connection between two old friends who know each other. More trust than love.

Bale managed to come out of it without a much higher profile

Good for him,
Chuck
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post #585 of 712
7/25/05 at 6:46am
Quote:
Theatrically, the film *IS* going to pass $200M, with a very strong word of mouth push. That's a real win in today's summer market, and portends a very strong home release. I admit I was pretty worried after the opening weekend. Not because I want my pet film to be "the best", but simply because I wanted the creativity and choices to be rewarded, so we could get a second helping. Fortunately, the film IS as strong as some of us opined, and the audience got behind it.


Exactly. It's done $333M worldwide, I think it could potentially make $450M with video release (worldwide). I don't know much about video sales, though, so I am doing some reaching here.

I get that Rachel and Bruce are friends at the end, not a romantic couple, but it still felt forced to me. REALLY liked the very end, with Gordon and Batman on the roof of the police building. A nice, short summary of the good and potential harm Bruce has done by becoming Batman, as well as obviously setting up a number of scenarios for a sequel.

Watching it this time, I felt like I was watching the comic character come to life: I was just amazed at how Bale hit the mark with Batman's rage, presence, and sense of "ownership" with Gotham: it's his city, and you better not screw with it. And in some indefinable ways, I just felt like the cast and crew translated the tone and character of the best Batman stories onto the screen.

A third viewing might in order, and I definitely can't wait for this to come out on DVD.
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post #586 of 712
7/25/05 at 1:56pm
The one fight I think we SHOULD have seen clearly is when Batman takes down the circle of thugs at the docks; after he's already dispatched a bunch of them from the shadows (thought that was brilliant and well done). But it would have been awesome to see what Falcone saw - one man taking down 7 or 8.

I actually liked that fight sequence quite a bit. If I am not mistaken, I believe what we saw was Falcone POV where you see all of the thugs being taken out by someone (or, at least to Falcone, something), and you could barely pick out the bat mask, as if Falcone must have been asking himself, "Did I just see a bat in there? There it is again...WTF is that?...I'm outta here!"
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post #587 of 712
7/25/05 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Bale managed to come out of it without a much higher profile
Hmm...perhaps Katie and Tom sacrificed their reputations so Bale could keep a low profile?
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post #588 of 712
7/31/05 at 8:04pm
"Even if Falcone's men will testify to having been thrashed by a giant bat . . ." LOL.

Third viewing last night revelead a few goodies heretofore missed. Funny how Bruce does all three things in the following scene that bedside Alfred tells him billionaire playboys ought to be doing: driving sports cars, dating supermodels and buying things that aren't for sale.

Lots of score that's not on the CD.

Neeson is a baaad assss. Deserves an Oscar nom.

Those Iceland sequences are impressively shot.

I sure hope Warner makes good on their HD DVD announcement of this pic by at least next February. This, Braveheart and The Fugitive will be my first HD DVD purchases.

-p
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post #589 of 712
8/6/05 at 6:54pm
Just saw it tonight on a theatrical screen.

Just as I was marvelling in how impressive the first act was, the way that the film had started off in an entirely different note than expected, a woman a few rows ahead turned to the row behind her and asked "Am I in the right theater - is this Batman?"

I think she enjoyed the film, but that sort of reaction really goes to show how cliche ridden and predictable most comic book movies are.

I liked this film, particularly the beginning.

I was a bit bothered that the young woman playing Wayne's childhood friend, and the young man playing the psychiatrist, appeared to be maybe 19 years old, tops. Doesn't one need to graduate high school before becoming a psychiatrist? Are attorneys getting their starts in elementary school so they can be working for the District Attorney's office by the time they reach puberty?

But if I look past the children-playing-adults, it was a good story, and it sets up a nice sequel that will I expect be a lot like the Batman the Animated Series (all those insane asylum escapees and such).
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post #590 of 712
8/6/05 at 7:06pm
My vote for next villains: Harley Quinn and the Joker, or just Harley Quinn.

It stands to reason it will be Harley, because they've established the insane asylum as a part of town. Secondly, they've established that he Narrows part of Gotham has been overrun by insane asylum inmates. Third, they've established that the whole Narrows part of town is bonkers, because by the time an antidote is brewed up most of the people living in the Narrows will be permanantly deranged.

Clearly there will be a need for psychiatrists to be called in, which means that Harley Quinn will be called in. She studies crazy people, and the first film just established an entire town full of them.
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post #591 of 712
8/6/05 at 7:32pm
I was a bit bothered that the young woman playing Wayne's childhood friend, and the young man playing the psychiatrist, appeared to be maybe 19 years old, tops.

Katie Holmes is 27; Cillian Murphy is 29. I find as I get older, young people appear even younger than they really are. And don't underestimate the effects of good genes.

Though only 4 years separates myself from Cillian, if we were to stand side by side, many might think I appear old enough to be his father.
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post #592 of 712
8/6/05 at 8:11pm
I agree that Harley Quinn should definitely be in the next movie alongside the Joker.

It would also be a way of setting the next one apart from Jack Nicholson's rendition, to which of course there's going to be a lot of comparisions.
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post #593 of 712
8/6/05 at 8:24pm
Quote:
Did it seem like to anyone that there were some scenes that were perhaps shortened or deleted? I have a feeling the original cut was longer and had a little more character moments, but at 2:20 it was already pushing it. It actually went by faster than I thought. Maybe just small moments missing, but I figure we will see them in the DVD.


Absolutely. When Katie Holms' character was hallucinating and being driven to safety by Batman, there were many times when she was clearly looking at Batman and tripping out - but they did not show us what she saw. Even her view out of the window, we saw only one "tracer". It seemed like all her subjective views (except that one glance out the window) was missing.
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post #594 of 712
8/6/05 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Katie Holmes is 27; Cillian Murphy is 29. I find as I get older, young people appear even younger than they really are. And don't underestimate the effects of good genes.


Oi! Well maybe the makeup crew overdid their glamour. After all, when you see candid snapshots of most celebrities they appear to have the same age lines that regular humans have.

Though good genes and not having to work most of the time probably does help!
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post #595 of 712
8/6/05 at 8:43pm
Besides the incoherent fight scenes, my other major gripe with the film is that not enough focus is given to Bruce's mother. Bruce's father has alot more screentime and lines, while the mother didn't have any dialogue at all. She has nothing to do in the film except look pretty and get shot. Pretty disappointing.
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post #596 of 712
8/6/05 at 11:08pm
That's kinda funny. I never thought about Bruce's mother. Ever! Her name's Martha, right?
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post #597 of 712
8/7/05 at 5:10am
Jeffrey Lyons was on some MSNBC show yesterday and after reviewing the new weeks offerings, the host asked him to look back on the summer and pick the two best films.
he picked Cinderella Man and Batman Begins.

i don't have a big opinion on Lyons one way or the other, he's more tolerable than his old PBS co-star Medved, but otherwise i tend to lump his opinions in with the white noise/quote whore brigade.

however it was nice to see the film still getting honest praise- especially after the marketing hype has long blown away.
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post #598 of 712
8/7/05 at 5:38am
Richard, they can save Martha for another film. I felt the same as you, but she had one or two good scenes. It's clearly a father-son relationship movie (with Ra's). I, too, want some scenes with his mother. The comics do the same thing. Focus on one parent or another. That's not meant to indicate one was more critical than the other.

Without doubt, of the few films I saw this summer, Batman Begins was my favorite, and probably the most effectively put together. And I saw 5 films or so that I thought were pretty good. Batman Begins just had the best cast, cinematography, and themes for me.

Take care,
Chuck
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post #599 of 712
8/7/05 at 11:38am
Maybe they can do a Superman 2 type thing next time and ignore Thomas Wayne entirely and only show Martha in flashbacks.
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post #600 of 712
8/7/05 at 12:22pm
The film should crack $200 million this coming week. Yay!
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