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Battlestar Galactica: Season 2 - SciFi US broadcast thread - Page 13

post #361 of 1702
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Boy, that plot thread was introduced and dropped pretty quickly, wasn't it? I hope it gets picked up again in the near future.
Of course, he really didn't want the position and right after he got it, the president was thrown in jail and Tigh declared martial law. He really hasn't had much chance to "be" vice-president yet.
post #362 of 1702
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As it relates to the new CAG, I had two feelings. One, it was a sad situation. Two, I felt it was a little forced as to how bad this guy actually was. It's hard for me to believe that the only person other than Apollo would be such a screwup. It's possible to say Apollo is good at his job without saying everyone else is a screwup. It just didn't ring true to me that the next best person could be THAT bad. But maybe one has to step back and look at it in context. Maybe the point was, this wasn't the next best person. Adama made a bad choice.


Well, you also have to remember that Adama chose him because he was LOYAL. That was the most important thing in his mind at the time. He just had his son and 1/3 of the fleet abandon him. Course, Tigh was right and the kid wasn't ready for the responsibility.

Jason
post #363 of 1702
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Yes, they are stretchcing things a bit with these sex swaps. So this Caine is going to be female, probably younger than Adama, and yet an Admiral.


Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
But based upon the flashbacks it looks like Adama (and Tigh) haven't had the most stellar careers. At one point they were stuck working together on merchant marine-like freighter. If Michelle Forbes' character had a great career I could buy her being in her 40's and being an Admiral. (Think Condoleza Rice.)
post #364 of 1702
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Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
But based upon the flashbacks it looks like Adama (and Tigh) haven't had the most stellar careers. At one point they were stuck working together on merchant marine-like freighter. If Michelle Forbes' character had a great career I could buy her being in her 40's and being an Admiral. (Think Condoleza Rice.)
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
And not all promotions are based on merit, either. She could have had friends in high places.
post #365 of 1702
Long after the fact, but I think it still relates.

I have a question about the infant the Six killed in the miniseries. It seems that almost all comments about it seem to have the feeling that it was intentional that she apparently broke the baby's neck. When I first watched the scene and again on repeat, I got the distinct impression that it was entirely accidental. Six seemed to be interested in the infant, remarked about how weak the infant appeared, the touched the baby, 'snap,' and she recoiled either in surprise almost like a child who just broke Mom's new necklace. The look on her face seemed to almost indicate remorse more than satisfaction as she hurried off to disappear into the crowd and find Baltar.

Did anybody else get that from the scene?

What brought it to mind was a passage from a review of the DVD from dvdverdict.com which seems to be more along the way I read that scene.

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• Many, many people expressed strong dismay over the baby-killing scene. It's easy to see why that would happen, but I think many saw the scene wrong. After watching it closely, I see this wasn't meant as a show of force or evil. Number Six did not kill the baby in cold blood; it was not an act of murder but an accident. Six was surprised by how "light" and "fragile" the child was, and when she went to touch it, she misjudged her strength and killed it. You can see the surprise on her face when she did it, and you can see the pain/concern/shock in her face as she walks away. It is a vicious scene, but it should be seen as an insight into the burgeoning humanity of the Cylons and not a vision of their evil nature.
post #366 of 1702
I don't know. Are we to believe that the "normal" way in which she touches a baby would snap its neck?
post #367 of 1702
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I don't know. Are we to believe that the "normal" way in which she touches a baby would snap its neck?
She may not have known how to touch a baby "normally."
post #368 of 1702
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The look on her face seemed to almost indicate remorse more than satisfaction as she hurried off to disappear into the crowd and find Baltar.

Did anybody else get that from the scene?


That's how I saw it as well.
post #369 of 1702
I agree that Six did not intentionally kill the baby. Cylons want to make babies, but they know so little about them. I think she was just curious and vastly underestimated how fragile babies actually are. She seemed to show more than a tinge of regret.

I remember once watching a kid bend his favorite plastic toy little by little until it broke in two. He was devastated over having broken his favorite toy. I asked him why he destroyed it, then. He said he didn't mean to destroy it. He just wanted to see how far it could bend without breaking. I said, "Well, now you know precisely how far that is."

My words didn't console him very much.
post #370 of 1702
RE: Six killing the baby.

To me it seemed like a "mercy killing". Six knew the attack was underway and probably didn't want the child nuked or (if it survived the initial bombing) suffer the aftermath. By her logic it was a "kinder" death.
post #371 of 1702
Thread Starter 
My only qualm with that theory, Peter, is that Six has been portrayed as being in many ways the least human of the humanesque "Spy-lons". Boomer is the most human of the "Spy-lons" with the other models (for instance the black doctor on Caprica) falling somewhere in between. With that in mind, I think DVDverdict had the right take.
post #372 of 1702
Man, Tricia Helfer sure looks good in a sweatsuit with her hair not done-up. They should have her dress like that more often.

Was it just me, or was she trying to look and sound like Starbuck in that scene?
post #373 of 1702
8/26

Sublime episode. So much happened. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The moment they are transported to "Earth" to see the constellations was wonderful. I teared up when I recognized the sky. I really care deeply for these characters.


We learned so much about certain characters, I want to talk about it but out of respect for the other time zones I will return later in the weekend.

This is great entertainment.
post #374 of 1702
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Was it just me, or was she trying to look and sound like Starbuck in that scene?


I think that was the idea. She did a pretty damn good job with it, too.
post #375 of 1702
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Man, Tricia Helfer sure looks good in a sweatsuit with her hair not done-up.


I agree. Better then the red dressed tart. I did like how Six became her old self at the end and the look on Baltar's face when she revealed his role.

Overall, a great episode.
post #376 of 1702
Thread Starter 
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Was it just me, or was she trying to look and sound like Starbuck in that scene?
Yes and no. I don't think that was the intent, but it was such a departure from her regular look that I actually thought it was Starbuck before the close-up.

On to the review:

In weekly television this heavily serialized, it is rare to get a definitive ending for anything. Take any episode of Smallville that doesn't feature Christopher Reeve and isn't a season premiere or finale and it will have a pretty distinct beginning, middle, and end — the latter of which will return things pretty much without fail to the status quo. By contrast, Battlestar Galactica from week to week never returns to the status quo, and never really comes to a distinctive conclusion. The three-act episode structure will usually be observed either thematically or through a microplot, but I leave each week feeling one step further along the path.
This episode, by contrast, features a definitive conclusion on two levels. The macroplot that has been brewing since since the season one finale finally comes to a close in the last scene as the military and civilian leaders are once again presenting a united front over a united fleet. The series itself also takes a fundemental shift. Since it began, the fleet has taken a fundamentally reactive stance. Their home plants have been destroyed, the enemy's numbers are now far greater than their own, and the Cylon military presence is seeming invincible. Basically, the series has consisted of them getting the hell out of there and staying afloat and united while they bided their time.
As soon as the arrow of Apollo transported them to a grassy secluded field on Earth's northern hemisphere (or atleast a vision of Earth's northern hemisphere), they have a direction and they have a purpose. The series finally takes itself conclusively out of the realm of the scientific and places itself firmly instead into the realm of the supernatural. Previous qualms about the Cylons needing love to take the final step into life and reproduction no longer apply; however much they are guided by our own laws of physics, higher science, and the realities they entail they are also effected and in the presence of something greater than their own. Whether this higher presence is the Christian God of the Cylons, the pagan Zodiac gods of the colonists, or something else entirely remains to be seen. The colonists are clearly meant to journey to Earth, and this vision is the first step on their way.
Now the fleet's leadership can be proactive; they have a clear purpose and a clear goal and the realities that have plagued them since the beginning now become obstacles instead of everything. Any lingering differences between the two leaders are inconsequential when set against that shared experience inside the tomb. Their goals and their purpose are now the same and so the differences in methods don't matter so much anymore.
In the face of this knowledge, the Cylon stake in all of this becomes important. There are basic three options: The pagan religion could be right, in which case Roslin will lead the fleet to Earth and salvation and the Cylons will fall as the Lords of Kobol intend them to. The Cylon religion is right, and the humans will never make it to Kobol. The Cylon religion is right, and the humans and Cylons share a destiny that comes can only come to fruition on Earth. Boomer was motivated more by her devotion to Helo and their child than by any sort of loyalty to her "species," so we can glue out the third option as the definitve Cylon viewpoint. If she is working against her people, than they will take what they need from humanity and then destroy the entire fleet before it reaches Kobol. If she is working in alignment with her people's higher goal, than they as a whole will continue to subtly manipulate human events in order to bring things towards the culmination of God's plan as they approach Earth.
Then there is Baltar. Since their in no chip in his head, his condition can be reduced to three basic causes: he actually is crazy and just intuitive as head, he does have Cylon programming in his head, but it is chemical instead of metallic, or he is an instrument of God directly. Regardless of which it ultimately turns out to be, Baltar cannot be dependably counted on to serve the needs of either side. An insane Baltar would be so off the handle that any actions would be random and subject to his own whims. A Cylon-influenced Baltar would place his loyalty towards his own kind in the face of Cylon control that he has so far had limited success in fighting off. If this is true, that he is a ticking time bomb that could at any minute reveal the location of the fleet to the enemy along with whatever else his mind is tortured into agreeing to. Finally, if the third option is true, then he would be placed on his own side, with decisions and actions based on the benefit to neither the humans nor the Cylons, whose manipulation of each would benefit a higher purpose than either.
Focusing back more on the immediate instead of the overarching, I really loved the character interactions tonight. The sheer emotional power of father and son reunited after such trama easily outshining the lingering differences that led to that parting. The commander and the president finally seeing each other as comrades instead of adversaries. Boomer echoing back the question he asked of mk1's corpse and then later showing her loyalty in the face of emotional and tactical adversity. Zarack showing that after all this time there are still lines he is unwilling to cross. The chief having to face the spitting image of his lost love. Alot of character development and realignment in the face of the imminent end of phase one of the show and anticipation for the next phase of the show.
In short, this episode ranks among those few that followers of the show simply can't afford to miss.
post #377 of 1702
Wow, that sure was spoiler free. Can't wait to see it.
post #378 of 1702
Nice summary Adam...but, you missed one (and, IMO, the correct) possibility for Baltar:

He IS a Cylon. Call him 13. I think he is the planted 'avatar' (for lack of a better term) of 6. He hears/sees her because he is psychically linked to her. And, he's no regular Cylon - he is part of her, which would explain why she gets so pissed when he disagrees/doubts her. I also think she is not just 'some' Cylon. I think she is THE Cylon. She is much more aggressive and passionate than any of the others. She is always giving orders, and she seems to be the ONE who knows the plan. Baltar is her chief tool. After all, he is the one who made their attack successful.

Of course, this is all just wacky theory from me. But, I do think you must allow that he is Cylon and 6's 'visits' are simply a psychic link.

On the other hand, this new version of Sharon (the last copy? after all, so many were destroyed by the atomic blast) seems to be the exact opposite. A Cylon who is not linked and is free-thinking as well as feeling.
post #379 of 1702
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I also think she is not just 'some' Cylon. I think she is THE Cylon.


The Imperious Leader?
If Cylons are "caste" oriented, then she would seem to be the "command" one. But there have been more than a few Sixes. When she interacts with any other Cylon they defer to her and follow her orders.

Or maybe she's under orders from a class of Cylon we have yet to see. To follow another Ron Moore show, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, we had the Vorta (the politicians & commanders) which would be the "human" Cylons, the Jem-Hadar (the soldiers) which would be the "toaster" models. That leaves the Founders, who had a plan and an order for the galaxy...which in BG terms would possibly be the Imperious Leaders? Who is the Queen Bee? The Leader? I don't think it's Six. THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

I also think Baltar is human. All too human.
post #380 of 1702
Quentin, that's a fun theory. And I cannot find too many holes in it. I for one would like to believe Baltar is a human. I don't know why, I am just more comfortable that way.

What's really uncomfortable to think about is this: If Baltar is a Cylon and Six is Baltar, then isn't all of their sex just masturbation?

Duuuude, I was thinking about some Baltar / Six dialogue. I think you're onto something. All of the talk about "our" child. That turns out to be really about Boomer's child, the first Human/Cylon child. But wait, that dialogue also works if he's human. Mind spinning... must stop posting on internet...Cylons control the data....
post #381 of 1702
I have a not so serious question:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
While we have only seen 2 of the Cylon models engaging in sex with the humans, Tyrol and Cylon Sharon and Baltar and Number Six in the mini-series and tv show, at no time did the human partners notice the Cylon's glowing red spine? Is there no doggie style position in the BSG universe?


Just a thought.

...added the spoiler because you never know...
post #382 of 1702
I loved the look on Helo's face when "his" Sharon got up to speak with the Chief. He nailed the annoyed boyfriend look perfectly.
post #383 of 1702
Am I missing something? I can't believe nobody else caught Sharon's "And you ask why?" He asked "Why" to the dead Sharon in the morgue. And this live Sharon knows what he said to dead Sharon, not dead-Sharon when she was alive, but dead Sharon dead.

OMG!
post #384 of 1702
I'm listening to the Podcast and they hit that piece just as I posted. They really played that comment down - even the writers don't know what that line meant, or how she knows. They said to write in with ideas! They just liked the line and realize that "How does she know?" is a legitimate question.

Sigh.
post #385 of 1702
Thread Starter 
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Am I missing something? I can't believe nobody else caught Sharon's "And you ask why?"
I know I did, and I think others did too. It was a nice creepy little moment but nothing overly huge. Whether she knows it because the transmitter is still working in dead Boomer or if this is just another example of the furthering mysticism of the series - or a simple case of Boomer's cold intellect reading the commander better than the rest of those around him - is almost beside the point. It's a great character moment.
post #386 of 1702
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It's a great character moment.

I don't think it's a "great character moment" - instead I think it's stupidity of the writers to put in something that they don't even an explanation for. IMHO writers should always know what they're doing and where they're heading. But doesn't look too promising for the continuing quality of the show if it's written that way - I'm afraid they are going to lose the logic behind the story and especially behind the actions of the characters.

But this is just my humble opinion.
post #387 of 1702
But it is a good moment.

Adama asked the dead Galactica Boomer that question, and we're reminded of that fact as we see him flashing on several past moments while he's assaulting Caprica Boomer. The flood of memories build up to, "Why?" What is Adama asking at this point? Why did Boomer shoot him? Why are the Cylons trying to destroy the remant humans who are just trying to get away? Why did they wage war to begin with instead of co-existing?

So now, we have a Galactica Boomer, who as far as we know has done nothing to harm humans, and is in fact trying to help them, assaulted for nothing other than belonging to the group (and looking like someone) humans hate. Galactica Boomer asks, "And you ask, Why?" It seems like a response to Adama's question, based on his flood of memories, but it could be in response to the general question of why Cylons are out to get humans. She may be saying Cylons believe true co-existence with humans is impossible because humans will never see them as equals. As much as humans look down on everything else, we deny our own violence, and find ways to justify it.

The moment didn't cross the line for me. It still doesn't, even knowing that the writers didn't have it fully thought out. I certainly had a, "Hey! How'd she know he asked the dead Galactica Boomer that!?" moment. My first though was she lied about not knowing what went on between Galactica Boomer and Adama. I still believe that because if she knows Helo, I don't see any reason she wouldn't know everything up to the point of Galactica Boomer's death (and final transmission). My second though was Galactica Boomer was still "transmitting" after her death. I later concluded Caprica Boomer's response was to the general human question of why Cylons do what they do.

As for the Helo/Chief/Boomer triangle, that one had me paying rapt attention as not only did I not know how things were going to go, but I didn't even know how things should go. Theoretically, this is Helo's Boomer, but she has all the memories of the other Boomer. There was so much in Helo's look. Is this going to be like before where I have to watch you with Chief again? Are you just being friendly? Chief's reaction was spot-on as well.

As much as I want to like Caprica Boomer, I don't buy her stance that she's a free soul capable of making her own decisions without any insidious programming laying in wait. Galactica Boomer would have said the same thing up until the moment she did what she did, and she never remembered it afterwards. Her demonstration doesn't prove anything as there are also many other times Galactica Boomer could have attempted to murder the captain but never did. They do have free choice -- until they don't.

It would make for some interesting back and forth as the predicament is explained to Caprica Boomer while giving her a chance to fight for her freedom, but I don't think this is the way the writers will go. They'll find another way to address the situation, and we'll have to go along for the ride. The characters may just decide she isn't a threat, which could ultimately prove true, or could ultimately come back and bite us in the butt. Or maybe they'll leave her locked up, while the audience never sees her as a threat. In effect, she'll be an innocent prisoner imprisoned for the crime of guilt by association.

Adam, can you put a blank line between your paragraphs? I enjoy reading your reviews, but the lack of white space takes away a bit of the enjoyment.

We now have an Adama that knows the truth of what he's always believed was a lie up until now -- the existence of Earth.

It's been awhile since we've seen either section of the fleet under any threat from the Cylons, whereas they were constantly being tracked before. Time to reincorporate that element back into the show. It gave things a sense of urgency. I would have liked to have seen a Cylon ship show up on Kobol and threaten them before they eventually got away, but I guess there just wasn't time in the episode.

For a moment there it really looked like Six was about to reveal Baltar as a Cylon -- to himself. It's pretty harrowing not knowing what you are, as we saw with Galatica Boomer. We all come to the realization that we can't necessarily control things around us, but we settle into a comfort level that was can at least basically control ourselves. Life takes on an added dimension for those who don't even feel in control of themselves.

If anybody knows of a show better than BSG, I'd sure love to hear about it. For me, this is must-see TV. I'm pretty sure if I only got to watch one show a week, this would be it. There's one thing I'm also curious about, but don't have enough knowledge of the marketplace to reasonably speculate on. How would this show do on network TV? What would it be like to tune in weekly to say NBC or CBS HDTV and see this show? Would it work? Would the networks interfere to try to boost ratings? Would it get similar ratings to the current situation, which are enough for a cable station, but not enough for network TV? Was the show commissioned by SciFi, in which case the networks never had a chance at it, or was it done by an independent production company and pitched to the major networks before settling in on SciFi? Just curious.
post #388 of 1702
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For a moment there it really looked like Six was about to reveal Baltar as a Cylon -- to himself.


The thing is, we're probably to assume that Baltar is still testing people with his Cylon detector (even if he's going the "no muss, no fuss" route of not revealing who they are), and, considering he's vice president of the colonies, he would have been one of the first people tested. Of course, it's up in the air whether he would actually go through with it or not, based on whether he was feeling overconfident or doubtful ("frickin' hypochondriac!") when his own test came up. We, the audience, don't know the results of Adama's, Roslin's, or Ellen Tigh's Cylon tests, but we probably would have found out if Gaius had discovered himself to be a Cylon.

And for those who haven't listened to the podcast for this episode, there were two lines cut out by Standards and Practices (spoilered for those easily offended). Chief Tyrol's line about topography was originally Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
"Topography's for pussies."
and Adama's line "President Adar was an idiot" was originally Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
"President Adar was a prick!"
post #389 of 1702
Actually, Adama said, "President Adar was a moron." Just a small correction.

As for Baltar, I don't even recall concrete proof that his testing works. I could be forgetting something, though. I remember him lying and saying it works. I also remember him being asked point blank if he can make the test work or not. At the time, his response reeked of, "I better say yes."

I need help with a line from the latest episode. When Zarek is trying to calm his partner, he says, effectively if not exactly, "Getting blood on our hands is a lot harder than washing it off." I expected him to say getting blood on their hands is easier, meaning that it's easy to kill someone, but it is more difficult to deal with the ramifications. I went back and watched the episode again (yes, it was that good), and I heard it the same way the 2nd time. Screwup in writing, screwup in acting, or am I missing something?
post #390 of 1702
Thread Starter 
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I don't think it's a "great character moment" - instead I think it's stupidity of the writers to put in something that they don't even an explanation for.
I will concede that I hold true to this as a general concept. If they have a ton of "great character moments" (to use my own words) like this, it will dilute the impact. But as long as they are exceedingly few and far between, I think they merely amp up the mysticism of the Cylons a little bit more.
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Adam, can you put a blank line between your paragraphs? I enjoy reading your reviews, but the lack of white space takes away a bit of the enjoyment.
Adam, can you put a blank line between your paragraphs? I enjoy reading your reviews, but the lack of white space takes away a bit of the enjoyment.[/quote]I've never even thought to do this as it's not correct by traditional standards, but since I've noticed it's standard practice in this thread, I'll try to remember for future recaps, though — knowing my memory — I can't make any garantees Thanks for taking the time to consider my opinions thus far, in any event.
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Screwup in writing, screwup in acting, or am I missing something?
Maybe Zarek's just more honorable than we all thought.
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