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Battlestar Galactica: Season 2 - SciFi US broadcast thread - Page 10

post #271 of 1702
I think that “The Farm” has immensely clarified the direction of the story, answered a number of questions, and demonstrated the intentions and dilemmas of the Cylons. It has also completely changed the direction of the story.

The Cylons have evolved, but they still are not the sentient living creatures that they desire, more than anything else, to be. That perhaps their interpretation of God requires of them. “Be fruitful and multiply.” They cannot do this.

They can manufacture more toaster models from sheet metal and spare cogs and rods. It seems clear now that the human appearing models require something else, something that they can only get from real humans.

I agree with the earlier speculation that we shall soon see a 13th model, that is built out of whatever was removed from Starbuck in the second surgery, probably an ovary. At some point, we will probably find that at one time there really was a Sharon Valerii, who was harvested by the Cylons; a Number 6 too, whatever her name might have been. There probably was a real man, who had a testicle stolen, whose remanufactured duplicate was ordered out of the airlock by President Rosslyn.

I think we will find they can manufacture the human appearing models, using reproductive organs stolen from humans, but they cannot reproduce as living creatures do and this frustrates them terribly. They are not living up to God’s demands on them as they understand them. It explains why there are only 12 models. Remember Number 6 marveling at the variety of humanity and she walked around Caprica City before the initial attack in the mini-series? She, they, want that kind of variety among their kind but they cannot accomplish it on their own. In their (collective) mind, subconsciously anyway (do Cylons have a subconscious?), there is a nagging fear that they are not fully alive until they can reproduce. They need humans, at least for now. That is why they have allowed a handful humans to remain alive in the galaxy. For all of Galactica’s and Adama’s heroics, they live because they were needed.

Boomer said that some of her “people” think that love is the problem, but that is a red herring. Perhaps we will find out that some other Cylon scientists are looking for a “divine spark” that explains how humans can reproduce, as living creatures do, while they can only duplicate.

Anyway, what I am saying in my long ramble, is that the Cylons’ plan and their problem is to use humans to try and figure out how to bridge the gap between humans and themselves. Number 6’s baby and Boomer’s baby, if they exist and are not lies, are stepping stones, but I do not think that they are not the ultimate goal.

As to my “if they exist” aside in the paragraph above, consider Number 6’s preganancy. She exists only in Baltar’s mind since the initial attack, so either he impregnated her back on Caprica, there was DNA transfer after the attack that we cannot understand, or she is lying.
post #272 of 1702
The revelation about Cylon reproduction also explains Six's motive for killing the infant in the mini-series: jealousy.
post #273 of 1702
Quote:
Of course, this could just be one big religious allegory that ends with no answers as to the definite motivation of the Cyclons.


I'm holding out hope that we will get something more substantial. After all, each week during the credits we are reminded that THEY HAVE A PLAN.

Last week's episode peeled back a bit of the layer of that plan.
post #274 of 1702
Well according to the credits.."They have a plan". My question is does Ron Moore have one? Or are they making up as they go along?
post #275 of 1702
Hugh Jackes said:

Quote:
agree with the earlier speculation that we shall soon see a 13th model, that is built out of whatever was removed from Starbuck in the second surgery, probably an ovary. At some point, we will probably find that at one time there really was a Sharon Valerii, who was harvested by the Cylons; a Number 6 too, whatever her name might have been. There probably was a real man, who had a testicle stolen, whose remanufactured duplicate was ordered out of the airlock by President Rosslyn.


Well ... that wouldn't be exactly right. Starbuck's eggs are not "baby Starbucks." They are Starbuck's children (or the egg half anyway.) If the 12 models are made from egg or sperm, they wouldn't be copies of a human that has already lived. Those would be clones that could be replicated from the dna in any cell, not specifically a reproductive cell or organ, right? Of course, we are talking about a sci-fi show -- emphasis on fiction -- so maybe you are right. Just pointing out that if the cylons are clones of humans (with enhanced strength, downloadable memories, etc) they didn't necessarily have to be connected to a harvested ovary.
post #276 of 1702
Hugh,

"Be fruitful and multiply", yes. So why kill all of the humans? We have to be led to believe that they only killed the majority of the humans, but left enough around on purpose to experiment with different breeding scenarios.

So, let's say they have enough humans to futz around with on the lesser irradiated planets of the 12. Why let the survivors go?

The only possible reason is that the Cylons believe that the survivors can lead them to Earth. So they can have even more humans to test reproduction with? Nah, there's something else, something undisclosed. They had 12 perfectly good planets. They nuked em.
post #277 of 1702
Thread Starter 
While on the crapper a minute ago, I was struck by this sudden notion: what if the Six that Baltar sees in his hallucination is actually divine intervention from God Himself?
The only contradiction to this is that his hallucination told him that God stays out of the affairs of Kobol, and yet she was there talking to him.
post #278 of 1702
Charlie Campisi -

It is precisely and only because this is science fiction that the cylons need human reproductive organs to make the human models. And I am not implying that they are clones, but I think that we will find that they are visually representative of, and possess the memories of their human prototypes

Ivan says
Quote:
"Be fruitful and multiply", yes. So why kill all of the humans?

Because they are vengeful of having been servants to humans and jealous of humans' mastery of the galaxy. Precisely human responses.
post #279 of 1702
I've considered the possibility that the Cylons are engaging in eugenics on the mass scale, theorizing that the human's who survive the holocaust they inflicted on them will be the best, most fit humans for breeding new Spylons.
post #280 of 1702
Quote:
the humans who survive the holocaust they inflicted on them will be the best, most fit humans


Conversely, the human survivors on Caprica (and supposedly the other colony planets) may be hopelessly irradiated. They may be suitable only to be human hosts to make more of models #1 through 12. Starbuck, on the other hand, is freshly arrived and doped to the gills on anti-radiation meds to boot. That could explain why the Cylons harvested her something {ovary}, rather than simply plugging her into the farm machinery.
post #281 of 1702
Its funny that each of these clones has the exact same haircut as the others in his/her line.
post #282 of 1702
Quote:
It's funny that each of these clones has the exact same haircut as the others in his/her line.


Or that they are all the same age... do the spylons age? If they do, were they all created at once? Obviously, they are limited by the actor portraying them. But I wonder if there is a written explanation that holds the plotline of the show together?
post #283 of 1702
I'd really like to know where they're going in regards to this whole Adama/Roslin rift. I don't like that, for the most part, they seem to be making Adama out to be the bad guy.
post #284 of 1702
Quote:
I don't like that, for the most part, they seem to be making Adama out to be the bad guy.


Well, she is openly in league with a terrorist, so there's is plenty shown to question her judgment as well.

But, what really surprised me (though I predicted it) is that Adama is validating almost all of the choices Tigh made when Adama was under the knife.
post #285 of 1702
Quote:
But, what really surprised me (though I predicted it) is that Adama is validating almost all of the choices Tigh made when Adama was under the knife.


Actually, it reminded me of a scene WAY back in the pilot where Tigh had to vent a section of the ship into space, in order to stop a fire, but also KILLED many crew members.

The Cheif went to Adama to complain about Tigh... and Adama made it clear that he approves of ANY decision that TIgh makes. Something like that.

It occured to me that they must have some bit of history that REALLY ties them together.

nick
post #286 of 1702
Nick,

I think it may be nothing more than an unflagging belief in chain of command and the command structure. Tigh decided things when he was in charge, it would undermine his authority forever if Adama declared, for example "Calling all ships, martial law's over!"

It's a military-based show. I have never had the honor of serving in the military muyself, but I don't think the general tells the troops that the colonel screwed up, ya know? The colonel just gets transferred.
post #287 of 1702
Remember Adama's speech to Tigh about nobody understanding what it was like to be in command until they were in command? I think that even if Adama would have done things differently, e.g., not ordered the pilots to be on crowd control during the riots, he understood the decision and was not interested in going back to question it since it couldn't be undone. You can't replicate the pressures of making a decision when you try to analyze it by looking at the results, which may have been unintended. 20-20 hindsight and all that. I have no problem with Adama standing by Tigh while realizing that he would have done the job better. He should. That's why he is the commander.
post #288 of 1702
Quote:
Its funny that each of these clones has the exact same haircut as the others in his/her line.
Actually, the Boomers have their hair parted on opposite sides.
post #289 of 1702
Funny...I don't see Adama as the bad guy at all. Particularly with scenes like the one where he commiserates over the difficulty of command with Tigh and when he cries over Boomer's corpse.

I see Roslin as the bad guy - she's gone off some nutty prophecy deep end and decided to throw all caution to the wind because she knows her days are numbered.

As for Adama backing Tigh - yeah, he handled things indelicately, but the only real mistake he made was letting Roslin talk to the press. Can't take that one back! Declaring martial law was the right call, IMO.
post #290 of 1702
Quote:
Declaring martial law was the right call, IMO.


I agree. Can't wait to see how it all plays out.

I bet Adama wishes he had never allowed the civilian government to continue in the first place.
post #291 of 1702
Like I have mentioned pages ago. The entire colonies are gone. You have less than 50k people in rag tag ships with one ship to protect them from an overpowering force. While it would be nice to keep democratic procedures in place. Its a ridiculous idea. The military leader has to have control of his forces and if some civilian comes in with no experience and tries to overule that in a war situation. I should hope the military leader overrules them. And no. I am not for military rule in general, but this isn't a normal situation.
post #292 of 1702
Adama is doing what any commanding officer would do, back up the decisions of his XO. The CO would never second guess the decisions of his XO, at least not in public. Moore certainly did his homework on the CO/XO relationship.
post #293 of 1702
Adama, so far, is certainly much different than the original Adama, who openly embraced religion and faith. In fact, Roslin is much more like Adama, in this way, then Adama.

The original Adama did have many frustrations with the council of the 12, but never went as far (nor needed to go as far, apparently) as the modern Adama.
post #294 of 1702
Yeah Unfortuantely the New Adama is very much a product of the times. It's tough finding anyone to root for in this new vision if Galactica, I Do like the series but I wonder if the Original would have had as much impact and lasting power had ithad a boatful of dispicable characters.
post #295 of 1702
Remember Adama's speech to Tigh about nobody understanding what it was like to be in command until they were in command? I think that even if Adama would have done things differently, e.g., not ordered the pilots to be on crowd control during the riots, he understood the decision and was not interested in going back to question it since it couldn't be undone.


This stuff really hits home for me. One of the reasons I'm getting out of the Navy is because it has dawned on me that I really don't want the responsibility of a major command which is pretty much the ultimate goal of any line officer's career path. The responsibility is enormous in real life and applied to the situation presented in Battlestar Galactica almost unfathomable.

I think Adama would have handled the execution of the orders better than Tigh since he is much more politically astute but I don't think the orders themselves would have been much different.

Moore certainly did his homework on the CO/XO relationship.


Agreed. Battestar is, IMO, the most realistic portrayal of the military on television.
post #296 of 1702
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I Do like the series but I wonder if the Original would have had as much impact and lasting power had ithad a boatful of dispicable characters.
Why are they dispicable? They're mortal, flawed human beings facing the unimaginable extreme. God knows if I was in either of the two leadership positions, the fleet would already be much worse off than it is already.
post #297 of 1702
Quote:
I Do like the series but I wonder if the Original would have had as much impact and lasting power had ithad a boatful of dispicable characters.
Of course there is a huge difference between the two shows.

The original was a kiddie’s show while the new one is an adult drama.

This might get me flamed but the new Battlestar is a vastly superior show.
post #298 of 1702
Quote:
This might get me flamed but the new Battlestar is a vastly superior show.


No flame here, but I disagree that it's vastly superior.

The original was a FUN, sci fi opera set in outer space.

The new one is a GRITTY post 9/11 look at what happens to societal structures when faced with an overwhelming threat.

They aren't even remotely similar in tone. The new one has better production values, sure, but if you like fun sci fi you won't really care for the new BG.
post #299 of 1702
I'm a little surprised people are still trying to compare this series to the original. I guess because there are some commonalities we can't escape it. I just figured that in this thread we had gotten past that. This show is different. It was made for adults and is supposed to be a dark dark show. It really works for me.
post #300 of 1702
I still would love to have an episode that introduces Dirk Benedict as Starbucks dad...although, now after the revelations of an abusive childhood. Do we need another original cast member made bad. ie-Richard Hatch now playing a terrorist.
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