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Star Trek Voyager - A Thread for Fans - Page 2

post #31 of 123
5/11/05 at 8:20am
Quote:
I think a lot of the negative opinions of Voyager were because it was different.


Speaking for myself, I can say that my negative opinion of Voyager is because of bad writing and wasted opportunity. I thought the writing on any given season of the show paled in comparison to the first three series, and the show never developed an identity or became very interesting, IMO. But not liking it because it was "different"? Absolutely not; it was a poor rehash of Trek's most reliable cliches.
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post #32 of 123
5/11/05 at 3:09pm
For me, I followed Voyager through most of its 7-year run on TV, with the first four seasons in my area in second-run syndication a few days after the UPN telecasts. Afterwards I missed out on nearly half the fifth season until I was able to get videos of those episodes from a fellow who'd recorded them off his satellite dish, and the transmissions were entirely crappy. By the time of the sixth and seventh seasons I'd begun receiving the Columbia House Collector's Edition VHS tapes and going through the episodes all over again through the start of the sixth season. Some of them, such as "Caretaker", the 23rd century scenes of "Flashback" (with Tuvok on the Excelsior), "Timeless", and "Dark Frontier" really standing out as my favorites of the series. By the time of the sixth and seventh seasons I'd begun to feel the burnout because of too much oversaturation of the franchise, and I was ready to see them finally get home. While most of "Endgame" was really cool, the ending was extremely flat (thank goodness for Christie Golden's post-series relaunch novels to pick up the slack!).

Now I've got seasons 3-7 on DVD, I'm missing seasons 1 and 2 to this day (still wishing and believing I'll get those sets soon or someone will get 'em for me as presents, along with DS9 S7) to complete my collection. For me, four years after its end, it still has some gems to it, but overall it comes off like "TNG Lite" for me.
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post #33 of 123
5/11/05 at 5:35pm
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I think a lot of the negative opinions of Voyager were because it was different.

Believe me, I wanted it to be different. They were starting with a clean slate and out in the middle of nowhere. What could be better than that? We didnt get much adventure or camraderie among the crew. It was like they were going through the motions of a typical Star Trek show but it had none of the spirit or heart of the others.

B and B seemed to think that no matter how bad it was people would still tune in because the name Trek was on it. People stuck with it hoping it would come around (myself included) sadly it never did. They did the same thing again with Enterprise and their karma finally came back to them. People werent going to make the same mistake again and be had for 7 y ears. People started tuning out midway through the first season and never recovered.

People often put Kate Mulgrew down because of the inconsistancies with the character and a lot blamed her for the failure of the series but she did good with what she had to work with. Any problems with her character were the writers fault.
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post #34 of 123
5/11/05 at 6:19pm
I like Seven's boobies!


Sorry, had a Ralph Wiggam moment.
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post #35 of 123
5/11/05 at 8:41pm
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am able to watch the entire 7 seasons in just a couple of weeks. By watching the series so quickly, it is easier to notice the changes in the characters. It is also easier to remember previous episodes so some things make more sense.

I watched it on cable here, where it was "stripped", i.e. shown daily five days a week, so I got through 7 seasons in about 6 months. Also, though I watched Caretaker and one or two eps after when it first started, I got bored and tuned out. A few months later, around season 5 (yes, when Seven had shown up... :b ) it seemed more interesting and I watched to the end; the cable station then started from the beginning again, so I "caught up" on the earlier seasons.

Personally, I felt Voyager suffered the same "start-up blues" that TNG and DS9 had, i.e. the first 2 seasons or so were rather patchy, though admittedly the "disputes" with the Maquis crew were among the more interesting matters that "magically" disappeared by season 3. Also, like TNG it seemed to lose steam towards the end, though the good episodes were still amongst the best of the entire run.

To date, though I own all of TOS, TNG and DS9, I haven't been tempted to bite on Voyager. Maybe when the price drops.
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post #36 of 123
5/11/05 at 10:06pm
Did they ever explain how the crew went back to the late nineties and there was no Kahn or Eugenic War; the events that were talked about in TOS?
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post #37 of 123
5/12/05 at 8:38am
Interesting in that a thread started as a positive reflection on this series mostly features negative posts about it. Whatever. Carry on.
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post #38 of 123
5/12/05 at 9:27am
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I like Seven's boobies!

I'll buy that for a dollar! Especially in her first costume that was silver. Whoa.
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post #39 of 123
5/12/05 at 9:38am
Thread Starter 
Reading a lot of the negative posts, I see a lot of people mentioning the "bad writing". I guess this is really in the eye of the beholder. I actually have enjoyed almost all of the stories. Even when the stories are kind of familiar, they are different enough to me to make them good.

There is a good combination of following type of shows:

"Getting Home"
"Different Culture"
"Time Travel"
"Holodeck"
"Finding Yourself"

Sure, you will find some episodes better than others. This is true with all shows.

I think the series as a whole was a pretty good story. (although I agree the ending needed more)
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post #40 of 123
5/12/05 at 10:26am
One thing Voyager nailed was the theme song. It's arguably the best Trek theme song so far. (What went wrong with Enterprise?!?)

I really enjoyed the two parter where Voyager traveled back to the '90s. It was a fun, two-parter.

The introduction of Species 8472, the subsequent Borg episodes, and the introduction of 7/9 were exciting.

The Year in Hell episode, by itself, was great.

The series had some standout shows, excellent character moments, and was very well produced.
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post #41 of 123
5/12/05 at 2:07pm
Jack,

I agree. If you want to draw out those with negative feelings towards a particular Star Trek show, just create a thread about how you like said show. It happened in the Enterprise thread and it happened here. I for one would be happier if they just created their own "Mirror" thread.
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post #42 of 123
5/12/05 at 2:26pm
Well, Davin, you guys gotta tell me what you want. Does the thread continue as is, or do we recast here and now by allowing only fans of this show post here. Let me know.

Oh, and I've been meaning to say this to Britton: nice sig image!
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post #43 of 123
5/12/05 at 2:29pm
Jack,

I've said my peace. I'll leave it up to the thread creator.

I don't want to stifle opinion, but sometimes a little courtesy by others would be nice.
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post #44 of 123
5/12/05 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Oh, and I've been meaning to say this to Britton: nice sig image!

Thanks Jack, and the same to you as well. Yours has been a staple around these parts for a while.
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post #45 of 123
5/12/05 at 9:13pm
Hmmm, taking on board the recent comments that this was supposed to be a thread discussing the positive aspects of Voyager, I realise that I seemed mostly negative.

I think the biggest problem was that Voyager, IMHO and I guess many if not most agree, simply wasn't as good as the other three. It wasn't crap per se, just "not as good", which led to disappointment amongst die-hard fans of TOS, TNG or DS9, whichever your favourite happens to be.

I will state, I enjoyed a good part of Voyager, especially in the later seasons, but a fair number of episodes were simply flat. Perhaps my inertia towards buying the Voyager DVDs is because of the tremendous outlay I've already expended on TOS, TNG and DS9, as well as the movies, and hence Voyager goes on the "maybe to buy" list, whereas had Voyager been a show judged solely on its own merits, without comparison to more illustrious forebears, I think it would be viewed more fondly by many.
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post #46 of 123
5/12/05 at 10:43pm
When Voyager was bad, it was really bad. And, it had more really bad episodes than the other Star Trek series.
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post #47 of 123
5/12/05 at 11:19pm
How interesting is a thread with only one viewpoint? Why is it that only on Trek threads do people get so offended by viewpoint that dont match their own that they want the thread closed???
What happened to a good debate?
How long do you think the thread will be with only, I love and I like comments???
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post #48 of 123
5/13/05 at 6:17am
Thread Starter 
I have actually enjoyed seeing why others didnt like Voyager. I don't mind posts like "I didin't like it because..." I just dont want post like "It sucked!".

Yee-Ming, You can get the entire 7 seasons for $485. That is much less than DS9 or TNG.
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post #49 of 123
5/13/05 at 6:27am
Even Seinfeld is available for like 38 bucks a season...paying 485 is still robbery...no other series, and I mean NO OTHER ONE...has the nerve to charge what paramount charges for this...it's a rip (and I'm a fan, even of Voyager).
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post #50 of 123
5/13/05 at 7:30am
My sentiments on Voyager pretty much sync up with that of most Trek fans.

However, I must be the only one who loved Year of Hell. Yes, it turns out none of it really "happens"- so what? It was a fun adventure.

There was a TNG episode where the Enterprise kept exploding until Data figured out how to stop it. Well I guess since it was a time loop they escaped, none of it really "happened" either, but it's still considered a fan favorite.

Also, I actually do remember them trading for supplies with other people, so that criticism doesn't make much sense.

And I agree that Mulgrew is given short shrift. With the right scripts, she could have been as good as Picard.
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post #51 of 123
5/13/05 at 8:06am
Quote:
Also, I actually do remember them trading for supplies with other people, so that criticism doesn't make much sense.
I never had a problem with them not showing a lot of that stuff. It would get boring real quick showing the crew trading, fixing, etc every week.

For me, it was mostly the wild inconsistency of quality between episodes and the too much reset button usage that turned me off.
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post #52 of 123
5/13/05 at 9:11am
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However, I must be the only one who loved Year of Hell. Yes, it turns out none of it really "happens"- so what? It was a fun adventure.

I thought that show was really good. What have made it better is if they Didn't hit the reset button and there ship was like that all the time. How interesting would that have been???
Quote:
It would get boring real quick showing the crew trading, fixing, etc every week.

Who says it has to be every week? Watch the new Battlestar Galactica. They have to search for water or they will run out. Fuel because they need to find a way to their people. It's not done every week but you know that they do need these supplies to survive. Voyager, you never got the idea they were struggling; Unlimited Energy and food. Why even strange the ship on the other side of the galaxy if they had all the supplies of a regular ship with no Starfleet.
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post #53 of 123
5/13/05 at 10:11am
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How interesting would that have been???


I don't think that's fair. That would have been a different show. The choice of story direction isn't usually bad or good, it's what you do with it. DS9 already did that "we lost everything we had and it's all blowed up now let's get it back!" angle.

Of course what they did is another matter...
But given everything else about the show, even if the ship had stayed that way, the show still would have been lacking.

Quote:
Why even strange the ship on the other side of the galaxy if they had all the supplies of a regular ship with no Starfleet.

To not have to deal with the heavy backstory of the other Treks.
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post #54 of 123
5/13/05 at 11:01am
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Watch the new Battlestar Galactica. They have to search for water or they will run out. Fuel because they need to find a way to their people. It's not done every week but you know that they do need these supplies to survive.
I have watched BSG, thanks.

I can also guarantee you we will never, ever see another "Water" episode on BSG, or any other episode where they have to find That Sundry Item Such As Coffee That They Need To Survive. It gets old and tired, and dramatically, there's only so much a writer can do that isn't a rehash of some previous episode.

Did you notice in "The Hand of God" that the BSG now has enough Magical Stuff to last them for 13 years? Whee!

Anyhow, I'm not here to defend Voyager. I was merely stating that the Supply Problem wasn't really one of my gripes about the show. If it's one of yours, hey, great.
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post #55 of 123
5/13/05 at 12:02pm
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However, I must be the only one who loved Year of Hell.

Uhm, well...
Quote:
The Year in Hell episode, by itself, was great.
(I feel so unloved... )
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post #56 of 123
5/13/05 at 12:13pm
DaveF- you specifically said "by itself." I took it to mean that, like most people, when the episode was over and everything was back to "normal," you ticked off. I just meant that I didn't and thought it was kinda cool.

I still consider Voyagaer the worst of the Treks, but YoH was something I happen to like. I also liked the 1st/2nd year story arc with the Cardassian spy who joined the Kazons(?).

I also thought that, looks aside, 7 of 9 was a terrible addition to the series. No fault of Jeri Ryan's or the idea of the character, just too much of the series became about her becoming human. I also thought it was stupid how they made her talk and act like a robot. Ok, it would make sense for a little while, but then the emotions would get to her more. And yes, the outfit was very stupid.

I don't why "character who acts like a robot" has to be in every show. I guess it's continuing the Spock tradition, and it makes sense with Data who is a robot, but Voyager had a robot (Tuvok is such a boring character that Voyager haters can't even summon enough hate to hate him) and then they added another robot!

And the borg kids? I mean, really...

I did like that Borg from the future they had in one episode.
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post #57 of 123
5/13/05 at 3:04pm
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Anyhow, I'm not here to defend Voyager. I was merely stating that the Supply Problem wasn't really one of my gripes about the show. If it's one of yours, hey, great.

No it sounds more like you are putting BSG down. To each his own. We'll see which one holds ip better over time. In just one season of BSG we have had more Drama and excitement then the entire run of the last two Trek series.
In my opinion if you are going to sell a show where the premise is that you are stranded on the other side of the galaxy with no way of contacting Federation Space, you should deal with that instead of ignoring it. Maybe they mentioned it a few times in Seven years but they never really had to rough it.

Quote:
Tuvok is such a boring character that Voyager haters can't even summon enough hate to hate him) and then they added another robot!

:lol:

I thought Tuvok was the most boring character in the history of Trek. I think Leonard Nimoy said it best once in an interview. All he saw was Tim Russ doing an impression of Spock and that pretty much says it all. There was nothing likable about his character and he was a big bore. At least Spock was half human.
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post #58 of 123
5/13/05 at 4:48pm
Are we sure that just because a week had passed for us that only a week had passed for Voyager? They were like 75 years from home and 6 months could have passed from one episode to the next. They could have done all their trading, etc. in that time. I haven't seen Voyager for quite a while so I may just be blowing smoke. I don't know.

On another note, no matter what you thought of Voyager you've got to admit that the ship was pretty cool.
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post #59 of 123
5/13/05 at 9:43pm
Loved the ship. Still have the model with sounds.
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post #60 of 123
5/13/05 at 11:56pm
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Are we sure that just because a week had passed for us that only a week had passed for Voyager? They were like 75 years from home and 6 months could have passed from one episode to the next.

It's not necessarily a week, but never six months. Each season of the show corresponds to one year in the Trek universe. You can follow along by their use of stardates. 1000 units = 1 year.
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