Sony Pictures continues to drop existing widescreen transfers - Page 6

Nils,

Your statements are so absolute and self-assured. Help us appreciate why your theories and opinions are any more valid than others being put forth here. What are your credentials in this area, and what inside knowledge do you have about this "extensive" and infallible market research by the studios? Why should we accept your conclusions?

Let me ask you this, since you're so plugged into the truth -- if the studios "very sound and extensive market research" points to MAR being desired by the masses, then why aren't all DVDs released in MAR by all studios? Why do some studios strongly support OAR and many titles are only available in OAR? Are they ignoring their market research? After all, research shows that MAR is what we want.

You repeatedly make bold statements as if they are established fact, and chide anybody else who dares to speculate in a different direction. Yet there appear to be significant contradictions in your own ideas that remain unanswered.

You think it's ludicrous to blame studios, for supporting MAR and not providing OAR. You think that evangelizing OAR to individual consumers will change things. I happen to think you're completely wrong on those counts. Your "logic" has failed to sway me.

Sorry for this rant, and maybe I'm overly sensitive, but to me your posts in this thread have increasingly taken on a condescending and patronizing tone. Just my own opinion, of course.

Jon,

I am sorry, you feel this way, and I am sorry you have grocery and drug stores around you that apparently only offer full screen versions, but I have seen the sales figures, and I know for a fact that almost every nationwide grocery chain and Walgreens orders both full screen and widescreen editions. If they are not being distributed to your store, talk to the manager.

REGARDLESS, your estimates on the number of DVD sales for these stores are so far off from reality. If you were to combine every single DVD sold in every single grocery store and drugstore it would not come close to the number of DVDs sold by WAL-MART alone. Sales figures do not lie. They tell you what DVD was bought and when and where it was purchased. Most of these sales figures are common knowledge and available free from countless news and business sources on and offline. As strong as you feel about this subject I suggest you do some research on the subject as I believe you will realize why I may sound so frustrated trying to convey a message that one would expect to be quite obvious.


More on topic and in response to George’s comment: Right…

And which makes more sense?[list=a][*] There is a larger market for OAR editions, so Sony decides to discontinue these OAR editions so they can sell only to the smaller market?
[*] Sony is discontinuing the OAR of a small select few titles that have never sold very well in the belief that this will some how motivate buyers to purchase an OAR Blu-ray/HD DVD version?
[*] There is a conspiracy by Sony to torment fans of these films by only offering them in MAR from now on.

Or maybe
[*] They are doing what Warner, Fox, Buena Vista, MGM, etc have all done on occasions and that is to temporarily discontinue a title in order to boost sales of stock that is sitting on shelves, and/or to create greater interest when the title is re-released or re-packaged.[/list=a]
Tough choices I know...

So far, here is what we do know. It took only one week for this thread to have over 100 posts, and over 5,000 views with several mentioning they were, due in part to this thread actively seeking out remaining copies of some of the titles listed.

Hmmm… seems like theory ‘D’ is doing quite well. I would not be surprised if a few Sony marketing execs are patting themselves on the back right about now.


At this point I think I've said as much as anyone could hope to say on this topic and I stand behind everything I have said in my my previous posts. I'll leave the remaining doubters to their own speculations, and hope the popularity of OAR and the eventual re-release of these titles will help restrain their disappointment.

As to why more people aren't outraged, I'd say it's because many think that the battle for OAR is over. Blockbuster switched to OAR, even the evil wally world stocks OAR of most everything (although they seem to not restock until all the titles, OAR and MAR, are gone) OAR seems to always lead in sales for any title, and the only MAR disks that come close are the "family friendly" ones.

Nearly everyone I know purchases OAR disks when given the choise, and I don't know any "I hate the black bars" types any more. As more titles are affected by this, I imagine we will see plenty of outrage directed at sony. I'll start:
NO OAR = NO SALE

Sorry Glenn, you posted this while I was writing my last post so I was not able to respond accordingly: It is from utter frustration from some of the comments being made in this thread that have no basis on actual facts and figures. Sorry, but this is true.

Furthermore, it is even more frustrating when people chose to ignore critical parts of a post, and even misquote me... such as you just did with: Where did I ever say it is ludicrous to blame studios for not providing OAR??? Geez... and you wonder why my posts have "have increasingly taken on a condescending and patronizing tone".

Here is a direct quote from my post #111:
Regardless, you are right that my posts have gone from offering insight in response to some of the earlier concerns to absolute frustration. This is certainly not where I want to be thus making my decision to check out of this thread all the more easier.

Fortunately, I believe most understand what I have been saying and that is at least something.

Keep up the good fight for OAR!

You fail to make an important distinction here. I said "blame."

Regarding the idea of contacting studios to express a preference for OAR, you agreed in post #111 that it was not a bad thing to do.

But regarding any suggestion put forth here to blame studios, you discounted those notions... ... and you then go on to defend the practice on an economic basis, the gist of which suggests that it is "ludicrous" for anyone to lay any blame at the feet of studios.

Glen,

Clearly, you are only interested in an altercation and not the least bit interested in discussing facts.

I did not fail any distinction. Look at your own posts. You clearly said that I said, "blame". Furthermore, look at the quote you attributed to me. How did you manage to go from to
Once again... where have I ever said that it is ludicrous to blame studios for not providing OAR? No matter how you spin it you can not get away from it.

I guess now you know why my posts have 'turned' and we can in part thank you for being such an integral part of the deterioration of this thread.

You have misquoted me now three times and your ‘gist’ and assumptions are so far off from my actual statements that I have no other choice than to believe you have no intention in having a civil discussion.

If you would like to continue this "conversation", feel free to send me a PM.

Guys,
Let's calm down and take this off-line without hijacking this thread due to a misunderstanding.







Crawdaddy

I apologize for any part I've had in dragging this down. Truthfully I have no interest in altercations. My perception became that at some point this discussion turned into an occasion to chastise any differing opinion, as if there is only one valid viewpoint. That's what rubbed me the wrong way. I should have just ignored it and stayed away, but since some of those belittled opinions were my own I felt compelled to respond.

I think it best to move on now.

I'm not too concerned with whatever HD form of DVD we get, but with broadcast HD I'm really afraid we might see cropping of BOTH 2.4:1 and 1.37:1 to fit the 1.78:1 screen.

I sure am glad I bought Body Double and Wild Things (Theatrical Edition) many years ago.

I would like to get Excess Baggage (1997, Alicia Silverstone) and High School High (1996, Jon Lovitz), but not now.

I found a copy of MULTIPLICITY at Best Buy with the Anamorphic transfer still intact and I found THE DEEP at Wal Mart of all places with the Widescreen side still there. I wish I bought BITE THE BULLET, McKENNA'S GOLD and a few others. If I had known...

Glad my wife gave me Mackenna's Gold DVD as a present some time ago. Also recorded the HD Widescreen version from HDNet on D-VHS.

Don't like this "de-featuring" of movies.

David,

SONY will be releaseing a new DVD double feature of ANNIE/ANNIE's ROYAL ADVENTURE in August.

I would doubt they'll use the widescreen master and probably go Pan and Scan, But we shall see.

Just got my DTS WS 16x9 OAR Japanese Annie in the mail today...



though I'd still be interested to see what the new two-pack offers...but for me it was a MUST for both 16x9 OAR (already own the original DVD that was) *and* 5.1 DTS!!!

From My Collection

Discs Already Effected (Previously OAR & MAR, Now MAR-Only

Body Double (1984, Craig Wasson)
Jawbreaker (1999, Rebecca Gayheart, Julie Benz, Rose McGowan)
Wild Things (R-Rated Theatrical Cut) (1998, Neve Campbell, Denise Richards)



Double Sided Discs (OAR & MAR) That Could Be Affected

Can't Hardly Wait (1998, Jennifer Love Hewitt)
Darkness Falls (2003, Emma Caulfield)
Dick (1999, Kirsten Dunst)
Drowning Mona (2000, Neve Campbell) *Not sure, but according to the reduced list price, this one may already be MAR-only too
Ghostbusters II (1989, Bill Murray) *Apparently OOP, rumored re-release for August 2005
Glass House, The (2001, Leelee Sobieski)
I Still Know What You Did Last Summer (1998, Jennifer Love Hewitt)
A League of Their Own (Special Edition) (1992, Tom Hanks, Geena Davis, Lori Petty, Madonna) *Probably safe for now considering this is a fairly new release
Sleepwalkers (1992, Madchen Amick) *Not sure, but according to the reduced list price, this one may already be MAR-only too
Urban Legend (1998, Rebecca Gayheart)
When A Stranger Calls (1979, Carol Kane)
Who's Harry Crumb? (1989, John Candy, Shawnee Smith) *It seems that this title went from a double sided disc (OAR & MAR) to a single sided disc (OAR only) Sony finally did one right



Single Sided Discs (OAR only) That Could Be Affected *Have they taken any OAR-Only discs and downgraded them to MAR-Only?

Blob, The (1988, Shawnee Smith) *Not sure, but according to the reduced list price, this one may already be MAR-only too
Christine (Special Edition) (1983, Keith Gordon, John Stockwell, Alexandra Paul) *Probably safe for now considering this is a fairly new release
Ghostbusters (1984, Bill Murray) *Apparently OOP, rumored re-release for August 2005
Grudge, The (PG-13 Rated Theatrical Cut) (2004, Sarah Michelle Gellar) *Definitely safe for now
Grudge, The (Unrated Extended Director's Cut) (2004, Sarah Michelle Gellar) *Definitely safe for now
Happy Birthday To Me (1980, Melissa Sue Anderson, Tracey E. Bregman) *Probably safe for now considering this is a fairly new release
I Know What You Did Last Summer (Special Edition) *SE available only in the "Deluxe Box Set." The regular disc (which is double sided, OAR & MAR) is still available individually. (1997, Jennifer Love Hewitt, Sarah Michelle Gellar)
Mothman Prophecies, The (Special Edition) (2001, Richard Gere)
Not Another Teen Movie (2001, Chyler Leigh, Jaime Pressly, Mia Kirshner, Cerina Vincent, Lacey Chabert)
Stand By Me (Special Edition) (1986, Wil Wheaton, River Phoenix, Corey Feldman, Jerry O'Connell) *Pretty much safe for now considering a Deluxe Edition was just released with the OAR-only still intact
Wild Things (Unrated Edition) (1998, Neve Campbell, Denise Richards) *Probably safe for now considering this is a fairly new release

i have already seen a MAR-only editon of Jawbreaker at Walmart...

Apparently "The Mirror has Two Faces" is another film which is now fools screen only.

Interestingly I saw the Wide Screen versions of many Paramount films such as "Grease" and "Saturday Night Fever" were in Walmart's $4.88 bargain bin while the fool's screen versions were $9.88 in the DVD section

STARMAN is offically out as FULL FRAME only.

I just spoke with one of my contacts at Sony Pictures (someone pretty high up in the hierarchy), who told me that they are currently "looking into" this issue and asked me to call back in a few weeks. I hope to be able to eventually post something definitive about this so we can stop speculating. Stay tuned. . .

The copies of "Starman" I've seen recently have all had both full and wide screen versions. If anybody needs me to pick up a copy for them email me.

I figured. When a Sony title gets reduced to $9.95 list, it might be a goner. Be on the look-out. That reduced $9.95 list is your red flag. Get the OAR before it's gone.

I'm extremely thankful that I have the OAR editions of all of the titles that I listed above.

I hate to give Sony any more $ with this kind of bullshit practice, but I decided in the past week to get any flippers they've released of movies I like before they get more scarce.

T wound up getting The Toy, And Justice For All, Starman, and a few others I felt might be on the chopping block next. Took a while to find a proper copy of the Toy, and when I finally did I felt like giving a big middle finger to all the marketing people at Sony.

Someone posted this over at DVD Talk Forum

Interesting list.

If I counted right, of those listed there are 75 being converted to full screen, and 16 to widescreen.

So, what's the rationale for which gets which? I can't see any rhyme or reason to what they're doing. Any theories?

Thank god I already have Gattaca, Air Force One, Wild Things, Roxanne, and The Thirteenth Floor.

I'm sad I never bought a copy of Guess Who's Coming To Dinner, though.

I have no idea what they're playing at, but it's frickin' bizarre.

Yeah, it is difficult to make sense out of these choices. As Good As It Gets in widescreen -vs- Starman, downgraded to fullscreen. Lets take an effects film shot 2:35:1 and pan&scan it for fullscreen, but present an adult comedy/drama shot 1:85:1, with no effects, in widescreen.

Really, which film is more worthy of a widescreen transfer? Better yet, which film will be most compromised by a fullscreen presentation??

Hmmmmmmmmm........ I haven't read the entire thread.... just the first 2 pages or so... so I don't know if this thought has been thrown in the mix.

----- Is Sony being pressured by the theaters to deliver P&S versions on DVD so that those who want to see the entire movie will actually go to the theater?

Could this be PART of the reason, along with waiting to release WS on the thankfully merged HD-DVD format?

Just a thought.

I'm interested in opinions.

Greg

I don't think any of those movies are currently in theaters.

I was thinking of upcoming DVD's and that it would be an all or none type of thing - all new AND old DVD's.