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Opinions needed: KEF Q7's vs Energy C-9's

post #1 of 37
4/25/05 at 7:23pm
Thread Starter 
I have been doing a lot of research into picking out speakers for my soon-to-be-completed basement. It is a large room, about 20' x 38' in the open area with smaller areas shooting off of the main room to form a "U" shape. I need a fairly powerful set of speakers to fill that large an area. Today, I auditioned several speakers. Polk Monitor70, Infinity Beta50, several Klipcsh models, Pinnacle Black Diamond, Infinity IL60's, and last but not least, the KEF Q7. I really liked the KEF's. They are very accurate, clear, and detailed, and played at pretty high volumes without distortion. They were powered by a Denon 2805. Overall, I really liked the build quality(the finish was outstanding!),but they are a little pricey ($1450). I wanted to spend under $1200 for a pair. My question is this: How do the Q7's stack up against the Energy Connoisseur C-9's? The Energy's are much less money, and have been getting great reviews everywhere I have been checking. The problem is, I can't find an audio shop that carries the C-9's. I found three places within about 90 minutes from me that sell Energy, but none of them have C-9's in stock. I plan to make the trip to listen to the C-5 and C-7, but they are going to call when they get a pair of C-9's in(I hope). Any thoughts on how these two speakers compare would be appreciated.
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post #2 of 37
4/25/05 at 9:09pm
Hey Pete, I see you demoed a few speakers. When I was demoing I listened to a pair of KEFS and Monitor Audio S6's and preferred the S6's. If you have any Monitor Audio dealers near you, I would recommend at least giving these speakers an audition and see how you like them.

Good luck either way
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post #3 of 37
4/26/05 at 12:31pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the response Kevin. I have heard good things about the Silver Series from Monitor Audio. I intend to also find a retailer that handles the MA's. I'm thinking the S10 would fit what I'm looking for. I read your posts about your search for speakers. Do you remember what KEF speaker line you were comparing the MA's to? Also, in your travels did you get a chance to listen to the Energys I'm asking about? I'm telling you, in my area, it's next to impossible to find high end gear that you can put your hands on or listen to. It's a ride to find stores that carry the brands I'm interested in, and even then they many times don't have the models that I want to demo. It's pretty frustrating! I understand why so many people just go the internet route and save some cash and aggravation. You're just rolling the dice that what you have heard about a particular speaker is what your own ears will hear!
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post #4 of 37
4/26/05 at 2:37pm
I believe it was the Q series (not 100% certain) but it cost the same as the S6's do. THey sounded very nice, but for my tastes, I preferred the S6's.

Sorry, I have not listened to Energy speakers. I do understand your frustration with finding dealers for high end speakers. Being here in NY I guess I am kind of spoiled.
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post #5 of 37
4/26/05 at 4:50pm
Thread Starter 
So many choices, so little time. DAMN YOU!!!!

Now that I've had some time to research the KEF's, I also find out that they retail for $1200. The jerk at the store I went to tried to jam me for $250 over retail! This after coming down from his original price of $1600 a pair. What a loser. Luckily, I wanted to do some checking on the speakers, so I didn't impulse buy and get the royal shaft. Man, that burns me up.
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post #6 of 37
4/26/05 at 7:04pm
PeteZ,

I own a pair of C-9 and I am very happy with the performance, especially when it comes to reproduce vocals

They have a pretty good soundstage, and when well positioned they seem to disappear.

Good bass not boomy;

accurate tweeter even if somepeople would find it a little bit too forward, not harsh too me thogh.

I don't know Kef but I think is on the same level and you will find who prefer one or the other: it is a matter of taste at this point I guess.

I have been listening to a nautilus 805 and found not that big difference in spite of price;
better tweeter the nautilus to me;
mid were similiar and I liked both;
no comparison between book and tower so that C-9 had outstanding dynamic, but the nautilus still worked properly with good amount of detailed bass.

Diego

Diego
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post #7 of 37
4/27/05 at 12:03pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info Diego!

I have a question for you. What kind of music do you listen to? I listen to mostly rock and hard rock, but I also listen to soft music, classical, blues, and some jazz. I also want to be able to use the C-9's as the fronts for home theater. The reason I ask about the type of music is because certain speakers seem to perform much better for certain styles of music. Your comments about the C-9 are pretty consistent with what I have heard from just about everyone. When you add the fact that you can get them under $800, that seems to be an incredible bang for the buck deal.

Any additional info is welcome.
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post #8 of 37
4/27/05 at 2:02pm
PeteZ,

as a matter of fact for that price they are a big bang for the buck.

I personally do nor hear hard-rock music, but a friend of mine likes a lot and no complains on his C-7

I am very open minded as far as music is concerned, but my favorits are vocal jazz, blues, classical, brasilian and italian singers, etc.
I here enclose some:
Diana Krall - Kevin Mahogany - jacintha - brian bromberg - patricia barber - kenny burrel - ray charles - joss stone -"the voice" -
as well as bob marley - dire straits - andreas vollenweider - robert cray -

There are a lot really that i like but I stop here

I still have to buy my CC-3 and a pair of CR-3 for my HT but the C-9 all alone have already outstanding performance with movies.

Diego
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post #9 of 37
4/27/05 at 5:54pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks Diego. I'm familiar with most of the artists you listed. What are you using to power them? I've heard they are a little power hungry. Most say you need to pump at least 100w/ch from quality amp to get them to perform. Thanks for all the input!
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post #10 of 37
4/27/05 at 9:02pm
I went to listen to the c-9's at G.G. the other day and I have to say I was unimpressed. I also listened to the Mirage omni 250's They sounded better but I came home empty handed. To me the c-9's sounded like some speakers in a box played in a tunnel. I don't know if it was the pioneer elite receiver or the speakers. Even at 50% off they aren't worth the money. I auditioned them with a variety of music. Jennifer Warnes, Evanescence, Shinedown and Otep. For the rock music they were O.K. but with the piano and violins on the Jennifer Warnes C.D. they just didn't compare. I have not had the opportunity to listen to the Kef's but if you do please post your thought because I too have upgradeitis. I am looking for something to replace my Klipsch. I am actually leaning on paying the extra few hundred for some B & W 704's.
If you are sold on the c-9's you can get them at good guy's.com for half off right now.
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post #11 of 37
4/28/05 at 6:27am
Pete, I auditioned the Q7s and Q11s along with Klipsch, Mirage, Paradigm, Boston, and B&W (the latter two at a different store). I bought the Q11s. I'm surprised about the price you've been quoted, too, on the Q7s. It seems like I only paid about $1600 for the Q11s, but I need to look at my receipt. I know it seems strange that I can't remember, but I bought the Q11s, Q10c, and Q1s all together for $2400.

Anyway, I find that the Q11s are wonderful, but I don't know if they're suited for rock. They sound great w/ classical. Rock sounds a little harsh and forward to me, but that might be my problemmatic room w/ lots of reflection and it also might be that, with better speakers, I can now hear the deficiencies in rock recordings. I power them with a Marantz 7400.

The best bet is to take some of your favorite CDs to the store, sit down, and listen.

Have fun.
Doug
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post #12 of 37
4/28/05 at 6:35am
Petez,

so far I am using a HK 335 that in estereo deliver 70W high current, but already hung-up a Rotel 1070 130w high current and the difference was notable.

I suggestbat least 100w high current power to wake them up
but 150/200 would even be better to me.

RichardCK,

C-9 for sure aren't in a box speakers but of course can't please anyone

So far people come to visit me were more like
than
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post #13 of 37
4/28/05 at 2:37pm
I have C-7 as my HT's fronts and I love them. I agree with a previous post that the 'C' series is pretty accurate and detailed. I also auditioned C-5 but not C-9, sorry. Even the local dealer here in Cleveland didn't have any then. No exp with KEF.
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post #14 of 37
4/28/05 at 4:11pm
Thread Starter 
Richard, I did audition the Q7 at the store. They were very impressive. The clarity of the speaker was exceptional. They played very clear, detailed, and loud. I did bring some of my own cd's in to listen to. I played Nickelback, Foo Fighters, Three Days Grace, Trapt, 3 Doors Down, plus I listened to various Jazz and rock cd's that the owner had in store. I can't stress enough how clean and accurate the highs and midrange were. They also had pretty good kick down low. We had the sub turned off, so I could hear exactly what the speaker can do. I was only able to adjust the treble and bass from the receiver, but was able to get a pretty good idea what the speakers are capable of. I was very impressed. As someone else hear said, these speakers are unbelievable for classical and the jazz. For the hard rock, I still thought they sounded great. With the sub, the sound was dynamic, and it felt like you were at a live show. If you can find them, I would make a point of it to give them a listen. Let me know what you think of them when you do.
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post #15 of 37
4/28/05 at 4:15pm
I listed to the C9's and the Q7's when I set up my system.

I prefered the sound of the Q7's and purchased them. The Q7's had a nice sound no matter where you are while I found the C9's to be a bit more focused with their ideal listening position.

The Q7's also had a smoother low end from what I recall (it has been a while).

I have been very happy with my decision.
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post #16 of 37
4/28/05 at 4:27pm
Thread Starter 
Hi Doug! I think you're right about the listening room. The room I listened in was far from perfect, but it was fairly large, with seating about 12 feet from the speakers, and drapes covering openings to either side, plus carpet to keep the reflection down. You could also get up and walk back into the store another 25 feet or so to get an idea how they would disperse the sound. The only problem was that there was a large display stand directly behind the seats that would obscure the sound when you tried to center yourself with the speakers from further back in the room.

I'm glad you're happy with your Q11's. They really are a quality speaker. It's always exciting to hear a brand you have never heard before, and be impressed with the quality. It's comforting to know that there are a lot of great speaker manufacturers out there. Competition is good....for our ears and our wallets.

Thanks for the help!
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post #17 of 37
4/28/05 at 4:45pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks again for the info Diego!

Don't take what Richard said personally. To each his own. Who knows what the problem was. It could have been an abused or damaged set of speakers. I've never heard a review of those speakers that was that bad, so I think something was wrong. He's only trying to help me in my decision by being honest about what he heard. I'm sure your speakers rock!

Summy

I'm glad you're happy with your speakers, and thanks for the input.

Bri

I've heard a few other people say they preferred the C-7 to the C-9. I think in my case, with the size of my listening area, I need the largest drivers they offer to fill the room. Great to hear you love yours.
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post #18 of 37
4/29/05 at 4:35pm
Pete, I listened to both last year. They both sounded great to me, but the C-9 has much better bass and can play louder. If I remember correctly the Q-7 was powered by a RX-V2400. The C-9 was in a different room, I was able to get the sales consultant to demo it with a 2803 and then a 3805. The sound difference using either receiver was not noticeable. I also A/B the C-9 with a pair of big Def Tech (didn't bother checking the model number). To me the C-9 sounded much better than the Def Tech in terms of details and transparency. If you have a nice subwoofer, you can't go wrong with the Q-7, otherwise you may like the C-9 better.
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post #19 of 37
4/29/05 at 5:37pm
Petez,

remember that whatever speaker you listen to, tell the sales-man to hang-up a good power, so that you can hear the real potencial

Diego
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post #20 of 37
4/29/05 at 6:29pm
Thread Starter 
Shiu, that's exactly the kind of comparison I was looking for. You're right about the Q7 not having great bass, but with a good sub they would sound terrific. I already knew the Energy would have more bass because it goes all the way down to 31hz, but if it plays much louder and is more transparent than the KEF, that would be amazing. In the specifications for the Q7, maximum SPL is 113DB. It's hard to imagine the C-9 playing much louder than that, but if so that's a good thing!

What speakers do you own?

Thank you for the review of both speakers!
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post #21 of 37
4/29/05 at 6:32pm
Thread Starter 
Diego, when I do track a pair of the C-9's down, I'm going to try to power them with several different amps if I could. It'll be interesting to try different amp output to see how much different they perform as you move up the power ladder.

Thanks!
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post #22 of 37
4/29/05 at 7:04pm
Sorry, I meant the C-9 was much more transparent than the big Definitive Technology floor standing speakers I was comparing with. As for the Q7, I thought the mids and highs were tyical KEF, very nice transient response. Without an A/B comparison with the C-9 (they were in different rooms), I really cannot say which one is better. I think the C-9 can play louder in 5.1 movies that has a lot of LFE signals, because of its bass response. I also think the C-9 can do better in music especially classical and Jazz in direct mode without a sub. Subjectively the C-9 seemed to have a fuller sound overall.

After audioning more models including some B&W, paradigm and Mirage speakers, I decided on the Veritas 2.3i. Just before I made up my mind, I did A/B the 2.3i with C-9, this time they were powered by an Arcam AVR300. I thought the 2.3i was slightly better in terms of transparency but once again the C-9 clearly won in the bass department.

It is really important that you listened to the speakers carefully, with CD music that you are familiar with, before spending our money. I am one of those who find it hard to tell the difference between amplifiers within the same price range, but I could easily tell different speakers apart.
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post #23 of 37
4/29/05 at 7:59pm
Shiu,

I am surprised that you felt the Veritas 2,3i just a little better, thinkin' on the price difference

I had not any chance to listen to any veritas but a friend of mine did it and He found a 2.2i much better then C-9 at least more transparent and with a tweeter with a better extension.

I imagine less dynamic and menus bass cause the cabinet it is smaller.

Not concerning about changing cause is out of my $$$ thogh ; just found interesting your opinion and I fully respect it

Their look is marvellous to me and must sound even better

How are you powering them?
any suggestion to power-up my c-9 in the future?
I was thinking of Rotel 1080, Nad or Parasound, but unsure best match

Diego
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post #24 of 37
4/29/05 at 8:01pm
PeteZ,
sorry using your thread for my queries:b
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post #25 of 37
4/30/05 at 6:44am
Diego, I did find the V2.3i more transparent, but it may not be worth the extra dollars. Had it been demo'ed with some high end separates it might have pulled away a little more from the C-9. I listened to the C-9 in 3 different stores (2 high end ones), with different electronic gear. My conclusion is that the C-9 is hard to beat. I bought the Veritas mainly because I like its look, the build quality, and I am just crazy enough to pay much more for just a little gain. Not a good thing!

Your other question, when I first got the speakers I used an old Adcom GFA-555 to power the front 2.3i, and my 3805 receiver took care of the center and surrounds. After a month or so, I switched to a Bryston 4B SST, and finally back to the 3805 with no external amps at all. In each case, I could hear some difference, but I don't think I could pass a true blind test. Eventually I settle on the 3805/Adcom 555 combination. Not that it sounds better, but it does take some load off the 3805. As you already know, 100 WPC is probably a good starting point for the C-9 and the Veritas so it is good to give your receiver some help. I thought the Rotel, NAD, Parasound or Adcom power amplifiers are all "high current" and 4 ohm capable. Any of them should do a better job than most receivers.

Please be reminded that this is just my experience, yours could be entirely different. I do believe, to certain extent, this "what sound better" thing is a highly subjective matter.
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post #26 of 37
4/30/05 at 7:30am
Shiu,

what you wrote just sound like really coherent

I appreciate your point of view and I agree that thing is a highly subjective matter.

Diego
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post #27 of 37
4/30/05 at 7:41am
Again,

your reply certainly was very helpful

Petez,

hope you don't mind if I polluted your thread

Guess was helpful for you too


thanks a lot guys

Diego
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post #28 of 37
4/30/05 at 4:11pm
Thread Starter 
Shiu, like Diego, I thought there would be a bigger difference in performance between the Veritas and C-9. I know the tweeter on the C-9 is derived from the higher-end Veritas line, and is said to be somewhat comparable with less dispersion. I guess I just expected a speaker that is more than twice the price to sound considerably better. That says a lot about the C-9 in your comparison. By the way, what sub are you using with your system? Thanks!
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post #29 of 37
4/30/05 at 4:14pm
Thread Starter 
Hey Diego...This is MY thread, so BACK OFF!

Actually, this is exactly the kind of info I was trying to get. You guys have been great!
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post #30 of 37
4/30/05 at 7:40pm
Guys, I wish I could hear more difference but I couldn't. Last time I checked my hearing it was okay, but it is entirely possible that my hearing is just not as sensitive as others. There are people who claimed they could even hear huge difference between different amplifiers. Well, that's good for them but I do not have that ability.

Pete, I have the SVS PC ultra. I only use it for movies and multi channel music. For 2 channel music, I prefer the pure direct mode without the sub.
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