HTF Anime Discussion Part VIII - Page 7

On translations, it is unbelievable how messed up translations from non-Latin based languages end up. My prof in my East Asian Civilizations class (cross-listed with Philosophy) gave us some samples of the differences in translation. We had a very literal translation for most of the philosophical works - but it sometimes fell VERY flat. Sometimes some liberties had to be taken with the message to make it come across right. Like one passage was a joke, but no one realized it was a joke until the prof read us the other translation.

My issue with Disney is not the quality of the VAs, but the translations. I find Disney takes too many liberties with sentences, etc. Watch a Geneon disc, see a little switching around of sentence structure and the occasional synonym used instead. But the Disney discs seem to have too many differences. This is when I get uncomfortable with the dub or the subs - when they tinker with words that change the meaning. I'd rather have a slightly inferior performance than a slightly altered meaning. And a lot of the other movies have older dubs that are definitely subpar. I've yet to see Akira subbed or with the new dub - when we watched it in H.S. it was with the Teengage Mutant Ninja Turtles guy in the dub :0

The one thing I like seeing is when they dub a game for the U.S., when they use anime VAs. Because they are a lot better than the acting gets otherwise (try listening to the Dynasty Warriors/Dynasty Tactics voice acting, ugh). Like when I was playing Doom 3 for a bit, and one of the expendable-type characters that had some actual dialog was voiced by the guy that does Spike in Bebop.

Dave:

I know for the updated Akira new sub and dub scripts were done. Having a copy of the original English dub tape (probably gone in the last move), the difference is noticeable. I do think that the point raised by Woo a couple posts back is very valid. Translating is most definitely an art, not a science, and even concepts that are simialr between two languages can be difficult to translate.

John.

JohnAD:

WIth the way the anime is released in America, it won't take long to finish up collecting. The way anime is released in Japan, only diehards collect. That is the difference between casual viewer in Japan and diehard anime fans in Japan. And since DVD rental in Japan is illegal, they either 1) rent the vhs from rental shops, or 2) buy the actual dvds (or 3) buy the Chinese bootlegs...lol...yeah, even Japanese buy Chinese bootlegs). But in Japan, there are an endless stream of DVDs, and more OVAs being released are ending up as "Sell in Japan Only, No Foreign Purchase Allowed" which ends up as series that will never come to America because the studio refuses to sell the rights to American companies.


Jason:

Well, people will always be behind the times then. But when those of us are talking about the latest and greatest, people who are behind will be in the mentality of "Is that Robotech?" (very common mentality, even of today's new anime fans...although not Robotech per se, but if it is a new magical girl series, they will refer back to "Sailor Moon", or a new mecha, either refer back to Robotech or Gundam, etc.) when Robotech was the only thing they know, and many great other anime shows and series have been out since. The more people know about new shows and have watch it can partake in the overall discussion and recommendations of new shows just released or have finished their run.


Woo:

Have you joined the "Old Farts Anime Club" yet on Yahoo Groups? Hehehe....I've been a member for over a year or so.
The good ole days needs to come back to anime-dom. As for keepers, I am very knowledgeable because I have seen a lot of the shows before most people have, that is why knowledge of show, especially up to date shows is key to being a good recommender.


Stacey:

Save up some money and buy the R2s... LoL... I think and believe the title will be announced at Anime Expo 2005 (and I still think Geneon has this title...but if ADV gets it...grrrr...) Never bought the R2s but I got them for my friend. Now I wish I bought one for myself. LoL


ToddMcF:

FMA is one of my faves. The manga is fun to read and is up to volume 10 in Japan (and still going). Funny how no Japanese bookstores were carrying this title before the anime aired and now, FMA is everywhere in all the Japanese bookstores (including FMA paraphenalia). I told my local Kinokunia, better stock up, because this will be a really popular title. And I was so right and they now have a good stock of FMA products.


DaveGTP:

Do you mean the dubs for Disney? Or the subs? As for the dubs, yes, it is called "dumbing down for the american masses" because Disney doesn't treat Ghibli's stuff as art film but rather.... "cartoon" fodder for families with young baby children to keep them pacified The only quality transfer is Spirited Away and hopefully Howl's Moving Castle will get a good dub translation but if this is Disney, it may not get it.

The only problem with Streamline's Akira dub was the additional use of redundant English just to fill out the lip flapping. There was so much redundancy in that movie, it made it even more confusing than the original Japanese version, which was just as confusing with or without subs. Geneon's dub retake on Akira changed some of the dialogue to "clean up"/"clarify" a lot of confusing parts and they didn't utilize the redundancy of Streamline's dub. Instead, the took the opportunity to flesh out the explanation a lot more in the lip flapping. This is the first time that Akira has ever made sense when watching it.

A lot of stuff on sale at Bestbuy.com again. I picked up the DaiGuard brick for $10 and Gunparade March set for $23.

Kong: I'll look into it.

EDIT: KONG - I just reactivated my Yahoo acct and joined.

Since I am a bit bored waiting for someone to pick me up, I am posting this list of my manga.

AI Love You 1-5
Ai Yori Aoshi 1-8
Angelic Layer 1-5
Azumanga Daioh 1-4
Bastard!! 1-7
Battle Angel Alita 1-9
Battle Angel Alita (rerelease) 1-8
Battle Angel Alita: Last Order 1-5
Battle Angel Alita: Last Order IMPORT 1-7
Battle Vixens 1-6
Berserk 1-6
Bleach 1-6
Boys Over Flowers 1-11
Chobits 1-8
City Hunter 1-5
Crying Freeman 1-7
Fist of the Blue Sky 1-4
Fist of the North Star 1-4
Fruits Basket 1-8
Get Backers 1-8
GTO 1-24
Hellsing 1-6
Here is Greenwood 1-3
Hikaru no Go 1-3
Iron Wok Jan 1-11
Jing: King of Bandits 1-7
KareKano 1-14
Kodocha 1-10
Love Hina 1-14
Magic Knights Rayearth 1-3
Magic Knights Rayearth II 1-3
Maison Ikkoku 1-14
Maison Ikkoku (rerelease) 1-10
Marmalade Boy 1-8
MegaTokyo 1-3
Naruto 1-6
Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind 1-4
Negima 1-3
No Need for Tenchi! 1-4
One Piece 1-6
Onegai Teacher 1-2
Prince of Tennis 1-7
Ranma 1/2 1-29
Rurouni Kenshin 1-14
Saber Marionette J 1-5
Saikano 1-4
Samurai Deeper Kyo 1-9
S-Cry-Ed 1-5
Shaman King 1-6
Trigun 1-2
Trigun Maximum 1-4
Video Girl Ai - 1-11
Wish 1-4

Speaking of Manga, I fully support anything released by Del Rey Books. So, I bought some of their products too, including Negima, XXXHolic, and Tsubasa & Chronicle. Viz has improved and hire more professional translators that both translate and edit their own work, so Hikaru no Go, Prince of Tennis, and Saikano all have good translations.

Avoid DC Comics (aka CMX Manga) translation of "Tenjou Tenge". That one is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo butchered...it lost about 50 pages of actual materials -_-***********************

Woo:

Hello, sailor! (just kidding).

That's quite a list. Here's my meager collection:

A.I. Love You 1-5
Ai Yori Aoshi 1-5
Battle Royale 1-11
Dark Angel 1 (Large)
Ghost in the Shell 1 (Graphic Novel)
GTO 1-22
Inu Yasha 1-12
Kare Kano 1-9
Lone Wolf and Cub 1-26
Love Hina 1-14
Love Hina (Japanese) 0-3, 14
.Remote 1-4
Sheila's Diary 1-3
Silent Mobius 1-2

As you can tell, I'm really behind in my collecting.

Kong:

I'm not too worried about that. I doubt that we'll see a cessation of new series coming over here. Plus, there are plenty on series that are new to me (if not new), so I think I'll have plenty to spend my money on .

John.

Interesting, Funimation licensed Sunabouzu which is a really fun show and I do recommend.

Geneon licensed Sensei no ojikan, another great series. This one is a high recommend (especially if you like AzuDai).

DaveGTP, your explanation on the last page of why you prefer dubs is the most rational and non-elitist thing I've read on this site about the whole dub vs sub war in anime. Congratulations, you win the battle this time.

Err Tony-B:

There IS no battle to win. It's a purely a subjective matter of preference of what you like to hear, with the caveat that the Japanese track is usually the original screen language...

JohnAD:

Hehe.

Tony,

Dubs "suck".

Sorry, I've been waiting to use that

My brother and I finished Blue Gender last night. Very nice series - only wish the animation had a higher budget. The 26 episodes seemed overly long - probably could have been a tighter story at 18 or so. Overall I'd rank it this way:

Story a B+
There were a few distraction episodes that only served to drop the show's tempo. I definately peaks in the first two disks - introducing some great concepts and building a whole ton of tension. Some A+ secenarios are played out.

Animation a B-
Economy of movement would be a good description. That in itself doesnt bother me, but there was clearly a "B" team handling a significant portion of the animation. I've heard of this approach before: the primary studio does the anchor frames and then outsources its animation for flushing out movement. I got tired of looking at Marlene's distorted face - she was a beautiful character, like a blond Armitage III. To see her hacked up by poor animation drove me crazy. Luckily there was a good chunck of budget toward the end and it cleaned up nicely in the finale.

Sound A-
Great music, dark, brooding, moody, creapy ambient tracks. Tons of LFE (bass). Great mechanical sounds, combat sounds, bug sounds.

Art A-.
Like I said above, the anchor art was fantastic. The ruined earth, Shrike design, character designs etc. Are you aware that this show was from two creative sources? Gasaraki and MD Geist. The violence was very well done and appropriate - you could tell it was the MD Geist team influencing it - while the plot, pacing and character designs were influenced by the Gasaraki team.

Now, BACK TO FULL METAL ALCHEMIST!

Hey don't mess with Naomi.

She has brown hair with a tinge or red maybe? Marlene is very blond. Otherwise they are similar - except Armitage is probably under 5 feet tall? She seemed to grow for Dual Matrix though...

Well well. Someone has stats on the two LOL!

http://www.absoluteanime.com/armitage/armitage.htm
Blue Eyes, Brown Hair, 5.4"

http://www.absoluteanime.com/blue_gender/marlene.htm
Blue Eyes, Golden Blonde, 5'2"



Marlene 5.2" ????????? That doesnt seem right! Oh well

Very cool that you are collecting the LD's. I've got the DVD OVA myself - I've only watched half of it though. I saw PolyMatrix several years ago before I really got into anime - dubbed on VHS.

I've got to ask though - why LD's vs DVD? I think you explained it at one point but I've forgotten.

I hope you feel better as a result of using that.

Not sure what that has to do with what we are talking about, since you are talking about people who aren't even familiar with the latest and greatest in the US.

Also, I doubt too many new anime fans are even familiar with Robotech. That's something from my generation. I would figure something like Pokemon, or Dragonball Z.



I respectfully disagree with most of what you've said here. With the exception of Kiki's Delivery Service, I find the dubs well done, for the most part. (Hell, you don't hire Neil Gaiman to work on dialog for a "kiddie" release.) I also don't have a problem with the transfers on any of the releases I have. Other than slight edge enhancement (which you have to be looking for to see), they look pretty good.

The only problem I've had so far is the subtitles on Castle In The Sky are a bit messed up in the timing. Otherwise, I think Disney did a fine job with their releases.

Jason

On my fourth disc of RahXephon. Nice series.

TonyB:

Stop reading your picture books. It's time to read grown up books now. You know...reading...the stuff you do with your eyes...


Woo:

The Japanese track is far more superior because they have a grasp on how to act the part from the original director of the show. I think the whole dubbing needs to stop because it delays the releasal of series in America.

>> The Japanese track is far more superior because they have a grasp on how to act the part from the original director of the show. I think the whole dubbing needs to stop because it delays the releasal of series in America.




Yeah,

THAT I'm really tired of hearing ADV's janatorial staff make their bid for stardom...

Kong:

I myself DO actually prefer subs to dubs. And I DO agree that the Japanese audio track IS the OSL for most anime.

I am just noting that dubs have improved significantly over time. Dubs that are cast relatively well aren't too bad to listen to. But it hasn't changed *enough* for me to switch, but for some members of the forum, it maybe an acceptable compromise (as per their subjective opinion).

What little I've heard of Disney dubs have impressed me, though as I've said I am a sub only fan (for the most part).

I just feel like the Disney dubs are kind of dumbed down for the "kiddie" audience. I'm pretty particular about words being substituted for their sort-of-synonyms that are simpler. I will use a word at work and people will look at me blankly (not like it's really that big of a word, Stacey generally understands me). I can substitute for another simpler word but it doesn't mean the same thing. This is kind of the same effect with the Disney dubs. Spirited away seemed fine, but I didn't like what I saw of Nausicaa, for example. Princess Mononoke seemed OK but questionable at points. I guess I haven't fully watched most of them, but what little I've seen leaves me that way.

Then again I hate Disney and anything they've made since after Aladdin (excluding the Pixar stuff which I can tolerate, mostly). Comes from the manipulation of history to make a cute story and the stock formulas they moved to (almost all movies = Aladdin clone). So maybe I'm just prejudiced against them.

Whoa, that logic just blows me away. I mean, wow! I've never read a "grown up book" in my life!

For your information, I've read four books in the past two months, and at least 20 books since September. Congratulations. I hope it feels great to be wrong.

Attention everyone: It's time for all to stop reading your picture books and move to grown-up books! By picture books I mean manga.

NEEEWWWWSSS FLASH!

For those of you who like to glimpse Japan's releases -
GONZO's latest "Trinity Blood" was just released by W-Dreamers.

This title looks HUGE folks. Here is the official site.

http://www.kadokawa.co.jp/toribla/

(edited later)
Just watched it - very cool. The fansub encode was pretty sloppy though. More comedy than I anticipated - and bloodier than GONZO's typical fare. The premise is basically Last Exile meets Hellsing. Yeah - thats right. Ship it!


BTW the picture book thing - man that was funny. Tony, I'm glad you have a sense of humor!

Yeah, Tony is very good at snowballing come-backs ;P


Todd:

I have watched sousei no aquarion and it is really, really good. Can't believe it is new and I have not heard of it yet. It has a very Escaflowne-ish feeling to it. Trinity Blood looks promising (hopefully).