HTF Anime Discussion Part VIII - Page 5

You know, for the life of me, I never heard of sousei no akuerion, probably because it was not a big buzz amongst the fanbase. Not sure if this was licensed early in its infancy which would have prevents fansubbers from distribution or what not, OR if this could be a sleeper hit not many has every seen. Seems interesting.


Todd:

Fansubbing is considered bootleg on the HTF. Trust me on this. I got caught once listing a URL long ago.

And as for ADV's stance on fansubbing, they are HIGHLY AGAINST IT. They would rather see the whole fansub groups destroyed because as they said, it will eat into their profits. Greedy bastards those ADV people...well, the boss anyways...since this is his stance.

As for bakuretsu tenshi, it suffers from mediocrity as most TnA girls with guns tend to end up to be....best TnA girls with guns series is still Dirty Pair. Nothing beats a pair of girls who can destroy anything they touch. LoL


Max:

Avoid FMP (well avoid the 2nd half of the show from ep 13 onwards). Do get FMP: Fumoffu instead which should have been the natural sequel after ep 12 in the 1st series.


JohnAD:

As I said before and as I'll say it again, "told ya so". The movie is to be avoided at all cost. My friends and I have a better pitch for a true sequel movie to Nadia than that utter crap of a film.


James K:

There is no monthly fee ** YET ** since they are still in beta playing stage. When they go gold and retail....watch the monthly fee start settling in to the standard price point of probably $15/mo. like most of the other popular MMOs. Plus, the beta is now closed and I will have to wait till they have open beta for me to join in. But I am currently looking into other MMOs. Currently play MxO.

(Edit: DOh! I didn't realize it was officially out...hmm have to take a look into it now)


Stacey:

Ah, I knew I forgot to mention Haibane Renmei to my list of top faves but if I were to choose this or saishuu heiki kanojo, I would choose the latter for the heart-tearing emotional rollercoaster of a series that is Saikano. For me, if I were to watch Kiminozo and Saikano back to back, I would kill myself emotionally and mentally. I'd probably be crying for weeks on end.

Todd - Thanks for the info on Aquarion. I liked what I saw, so I'll be keeping an eye out for this one.

Kong - Guild Wars is live, and is "free" (no monthly cost that is). They will charge for optional chapter downloads periodically. I've only played a couple of hours, but it is pretty fun so far. PM me and we'll discuss it some more.

James:

YOu've got a PM!

Picked up a couple dvds today..One was Scrapped Princess, The other was a blind buy, Shadow Star Narutaru

As For my Top 10 or so.....

1. Crest/Banner of the Stars
2. Twelve Kingdom
2.5 Haibane Renmei
3. Great Teacher Onizuka
4. NGE Platinum
5. Cowboy Bebop
5.5 Rahxephon
6. Kenshin
7. Boogiepop Phantom
8. Last Exile
9. Azumanga Daioh
10. Figure 17
11. Chobits
12. Ai Yori Aoshi
13. Kaze No Yojimbo
14. Kare Kano
15. Now and Then, Here and There
and so on....

JohnAD, thanks for the heads up! No more boxsets? Ouch! There goes my wallet! It had better be cheap...the first disc only has 3 episodes right? Oh..I just looked it up on advfilms.com - $30 MSRP?



That's crazy!

And yes, I saw the fansubs of it more than a year ago...18 months?

Kong says:

I saw the FMP bootleg more than a year ago as well...a Chinese bootleg I borrowed. The subtitles were in Engrish and were barely intelligible. And I agree with you! The quality of the show dropped off noticeably somewhere past the halfway point it seemed...I consider FMP:Fumoffu vastly superior!

I'd like to announce the newest minion in the domain, my daughter Erin. She was born on Wednesday. Both she and her mom are doing well. Not sure I can always say the same for dad

We should all be home on Saturday, ready to start "training" (hers or ours, I'm not entire sure)

I just wanted to let everyone know, and must get ready to assist in another feeding...

Congratulations Ryan. It's really a special time and you won't believe how fast it goes by, so take pictures and write down memories. Glad to hear everyone is doing well.

Unlicensed fansubs are considered bootlegs by HTF? Well that explains why we only have single threads for all anime topics around here - and reviewers have said "I prefer the dub...". Yeah whatever.

And ADV is not against fansubbing, they are worried that the delay between release and Japan and US licensing can cause lost sales because of the prompt fansubbing and torrent networks. That is exactly what was said in that article.

If they want to kill fansubbing - simple LICENSE earlier and encode later. I'm sure they have already reached that conclusion anyway - you can see it in the number of cancelled fansub projects recently.

In addition to that - Funimation, Bandai and Geneon have been totally silent on the issue. Its a touchy subject for the distributers to deal with such an established practice.

If the show is not licensed and thus not under lease or ownership by any company in the states, then why would the fansub be considered bootleg? And I really dont wanna hear because it impacts sales because mist people I know choose which anime to buy by watching the fansubs first then anticipating official US release. I personally just pick n guess but hey...

Speaking of picking and guessing. Deep Discount finally has the Noir boxset available for preorder. I already preordered mine. Which just about does it for me for this summer season already (besides scrapped princess releases).

I finished Ceres, Celestial Legend finally. I've been working on this for a couple of weeks and kinda just downed the last 12 eps in two days after dragging it out for awhile. My opinion of the show is still very high. I loved the characters and keeping things on a love triangle level, plus the storyline which twists and turns like a great serpent. Everything you know and percieve to know is constantly changing right til the very end. Which the ending made me cry. Three times. One was Toya's declaration of love for Aya near the close. It was one of the most emotion charged things I've ever heard. There were a few WTF cheesy parts but overall it wrapped up nicely. A good series that is almost great but not quite. I did love it dearly though and the time I spent with it. Toya was awesome. =)

Next up is Nuku Nuku Dash I think. Before I tackle anything else too serious.

Kong: Shame on you, no Haibane. hehe, it's ok...if I were to put the show against the soundtrack, I'd choose the soundtrack hands down. I had considered Saikano on the list but I think I need another watch to really assess it because I saw it so scattered as it was released I felt I didn't get to fully expierence the impact that which is Saikano, even though I was bawling like a baby as it was! lol....Saikano would've been next on my list though...

All: I finished watching ROD TV #6 the other night, very interesting stuff even though I was dissapointed with the 3 eps. count and I'd kinda forgot what all was happening between releases (a common problem!/Watching too many at once!)I felt as though they were almost setting up too much for only 1 more disk release, too much to finish and explain...but...who knows...may they'll save that last eps. from this disk and put it on the next...hehe..doubt it.

I have yet to have time to get to Chrono Crusade #5 but that's next on the list....Dave and I are plowing our way through Buffy/Angel. We're up to Season 6 on Buffy and 3 on Angel. As soon as we're finished we've both decided to get back into anime more...well, more like watch the stuff we have sitting unwatched on the shelf because I know at least I certainly haven't stopped buying it! lol...
Oh, we also caught the first 2 episodes of FMA vol 2. I gotta say, I know everyone acts like it's the best thing since sliced cheese but...I'm definitly leaning toward the skeptical side of things...we'll see. It's ok...It's just not Twelve Kingdoms or something...
Stacey

I'll be at Otakon ... but again, behind-the-scenes running convention operations during the day.

Perhaps I'll have some time at night to socialize this year though.

Watching Arjuna- not too preachy is it? Other than that, looks and sounds great.

>> Uh-oh, it looks like we've failed Todd McF's Otaku Purity Test

Very funny.

So I re-watched Chrno Crusade disk 1 yesterday. I've been sort of luke warm on this series but I think I'll try another disk. I can't tell if I really like the show or just the opening song Tsubasa wa Pleasure Line.

Got a crapload of stuff this weekend, mostly used. Got Scrapped Princess 1, and Gundam 0083 #1 new. Other stuff I got should be immediately obvious once you click on my collection link in my sig.

Some include:

Geneshaft 1-4
Twelve Kingdoms 7~8 (two more to go!)
Midori Days #1 (Thanks Rob Gardiner!)
Madlax #1 (Thanks again Rob Gardiner!)
Kino's Journey 2-4 (gotta find #1 somewhere or get it new at DeepDiscountDvd)
Stratos 4 #3
X The Movie (completes my X TV and X collection)
Ghost in the shell SAC #2 and #4
Chrono Crusade #1

Also loaded up on a bunch of manga, and now am caught up with most of my manga collection... (again reading the stuff - like watching my dvds - is another story...)

I finished volume one of Scrapped Princess. I was pretty impressed with the show and am looking forward to seeing more of it (no more til almost July though! Argh!) Anyway, yeah I'm definitely glad I was enticed into it by this forum. =) Was very surprised to hear Shannon's voice on the English dub. I was like is it? And of course it is Crispin Freeman. Spotted him after like, two sentences. LOL Good stuff, if anyone else is fence sitting - don't be! There were some geniunely laugh out loud moments here too and anime rarely makes me laugh other than an internal chuckle.

Anyone think that it'd be an awesome idea if there were more dub actors/actresses so that anime may become more popular?

One of the common complaints I hear about dubs in general is that the stable of dub voice actors is limited. I myself don't listen to dubs often, as I have many series and don't have time to watch dub (and have mostly been a sub fan all my life) but I'd like some of the dub fans on this site to weigh in on this issue.

For more dub actors (and that includes actresses) to be available, I'd hazard the following hypotheses:

1. Anime distros must be willing to make dub voice acting a decently paid profession. Using Canadian VAs is unfair to possible VAs here in the US. This dovetails with the *blech* offshoring of jobs discussions...

2. For the above to happen anime must become close to (if not become) mainstream.

Once the above two criteria happen, I'd assume that anime can make enough money for both Japanese publisheres and US distros to create and fund some organization to promote domestic voice acting.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated, and would help to promote a healthy discussion of dubs in anime.

Of course, the caveat is that dub fans should support sub fans in getting accurate releases with both a JPN audio track and good subtitles as well as a competent dub. The dub was never meant to "REPLACE" the JPN track- rather it was meant to make anime more palateable to those not willing to watch a JPN audio with subtitles presentation...

EDITED: To add some more comments...

I rewatched some disks this weekend: On Saturday, I rewatched all of Zaion - i wish you were here. What a great little OVA/OWA. I also got through volumes 1-3 of Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi. These are the first anime DVDs that I've been able to rewatch this year.

John.

I personally like hearing familiar voices in anime, kind of like seeing a movie for a certain actor I guess. Plus its fun to try and figure out where exactly I've heard the voice before. Crispin is the only one I can actually pick out and he's always a pleasure to hear. If there were more VAs it would also make the stable of jobs available for these guys smaller and some might have more difficulty supporting themselves because anime is big but not that big yet. I don't imagine they are being paid a great deal for their efforts.

I like dubs because for one, I'm used to rhem. Dub tapes were all that was available in my area when I got into anime enough to buy it, and now its infinitely easier listening to the English dub with a small baby than trying to read subtitles which is why Sailor Moon and Pretty Sammy Magical Girl Project S or whatever remains untouched.

Personally, I always listen to the original language w/ subs (where available) for the following reasons:

1) Director's intent: the director of the anime chooses his cast and directs their performances with the intent of conveying certain emotional content to the viewer. For a third party to come in after the fact, eliminate the original cast and their performances, and record totally new performances undermines this intent.

2) Accuracy of translation: the dub script must match the "lip flaps" of the animation in order to maintain lip-sync, while the sub script has no such requirement. This further compromises the dub, in some cases changing the meaning of the dialogue, the personality of the characters, etc.

3) One bad apple: even on the so-called "good" dubs (such as Cowboy Bebop or the Miyazaki films) it only takes one inappropriate casting choice to destroy my suspension of disbelief and pull me out of the show. As much as I love Phil Hartman, his performance as Jiji in KIKI'S DELIVERY SERVICE was completely out of place. The same goes for Clare Danes as the title role in PRINCESS MONONOKE or the American version of SPIKE in Cowboy Bebop.

ADDITIONAL OBSERVATION: I am relatively new to anime, but I have been collecting films (domestic and foreign) on DVD and laserdisc for nearly a decade. I was surprised to discover that certain anime fans actually prefer dubs. In the case of live action films, (with the exception of some Italian westerns and horror films, which are filmed silent, without an "original" soundtrack at all) they are always presented in the original language with subtitles, and this practice is never questioned.

I am curious: do dubbed anime fans have any objection to watching films by Kurosawa or Pasolini or Bunuel or Truffaut in their original language with English subs?

In any case, I think the major reason that dubbed anime sounds so poor in relation to the original language is because voice actors have very little respect in the US. If stage and film acting gets the most respect, then voice acting for cartoons is at the very bottom of the acting totem pole, below even live-action TV commercial acting. (Of course there are exceptions -- the cast of the Simpsons are celebrities, and it has always been an honor to be asked to perform in a Disney feature, but these exceptions are few and far between.)

However, in Japan, voice acting in anime is a respected profession, and certain well known "seiyuu" become celebrities, on par with regular TV and film actors. There is no negative stigma associated with voice acting like there is over here. The lack of respect that voice actors receive in this country does little to attract quality actors to the profession.

I had another moment of weakness - HMV has a 2 for $80 (CDN) sale on all the Buffy and Angel season boxsets, so I ended up buying seasons 2-5 of Angel! Ouch ouch ouch...

I'm still working on "His and Her Circumstances" - a good show so far, I just finished episode 11.

I've also watched some Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien...bittersweet show that surprised me in not being a typical teen romance show!

As for voice dubs - I actually don't mind them if they are good. IMHO, the english voice acting for Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex is one of the best I have heard (with the exception of the Ghibli animation releases - Nausicaa is especially good).

My practice is to watch the anime subbed first, and if I especially like the show, I will rewatch it in the dub - allows me to concentrate more on the visuals and enhances the immersion.

I've done this with Princess Mononoke and GITS:SAC (up to volume 5 of course!). I watched the fansubs of GITS:SAC, and after purchasing the R1 discs only watched the dubs.

BTW, I regard Mark Hamil's voice acting very highly - he does such incredible work that you can't even tell it is him!

Good points Rob. I have to add that your comparison to low-dialog liveaction films (how much dialog does an Akira Kurosawa film have? Um...not much. ) could have been better! Have you tried watching the subs of "His and Her Circumstances"? The dialog is extremely fast and furious - and along with the onscreen kanji that appears on the screen it can be very difficult to keep up with the subs without pausing now and then - definitely breaks the flow when you need to read 3 sentences of text AND watch the characters on the screen AND the text disappears in 3 seconds for the next paragraph.

If there is bad voice acting I will not even bother rewatching the anime in dub. If it is passible voice acting, then I may rewatch it, but only if the film has very good visuals (ie. Akira).

Rob:

Actually, for most anime series, the 'lip flaps' are done before the VAs do their work, so they really are only supposed to be close, rather than exact matches. The one exception to this that I know about is Akira where the director intentionally had the animators match the lip movement of the VAs.

While for the most part I agree with your arguments for subs (I only watch subs, myself), I do think dub actors and translators do try to follow the director's original intent. Sometimes things are changed for the worse (**cough cough** Carl Macek **cough cough**), but for the most part, I think they make the effort.

Max:

I've seen quite a few Kurosawa films, and even the action-oriented films have more than one might expect. I have watched His and Her Circumstances subbed, and I agree it was a little fast, but sub watching is a learned skill like anything else. At this point, I really don't have to think about it anymore, unless I'm tired.

John.

I never use dubs unless forced to - but I have noticed a few things when I've heard them.

1. There seems to be a tendency to add "filler" English dialog during a translation. For example - Trigun has alot of "extra" spoken English compared to the SUB because the the line in Japanese take much longer to say. That's just butchery.

For example, when Vash gets on the Steamer to leave a town and the kids start chasing it to say goodbye -
Japanese: "you're not just leaving like that are you?"
English: "You can't just leave without saying goodbye. You are coming back soon arent you?"

2. In other situations, the dialog is dumbed down for a younger audience.

3. Smaller roles get reprehensible quality actors. Probably studio janatorial staff. In Last Exile for example, the dialog during Guild Monitored battle is soooo painful.

4. The American distributors sometimes cut a 5.1 track for its dubs and mix the voices in far too loud compared to the rest of the sound, totally destroying the sound stage. I noticed this on several titles - but specifically Rahxephon and Gasaraki.

In my opinion, the American talent just isnt as good (broadly speaking) for the the financial reasons pointed out by others. Also, I think the Studio's fail to cast well probably because they misinterpret the characters nature or the talent pool is small and on other projects leaving them with few options in the schedule.