Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

Slight tangent, but I just got "Dead End" and it looks pretty good. GREAT film BTW....

Leo Gorcey Jr. was telling people last year that Warners had told him that the BB were on their radar for eventual box sets. Warners themselves indicated at the last HTF chat that the BB were being considered.

My guess is that we'll eventually see some releases but only after Warners has gone through their "A" list titles first.

Steve

I don't know if this is good news or bad news for Bowery Boys fans, but DVDPlanet added a 5-disc set from Passport/Koch called The Bowery Boys Collection to their site today, streets 9/6, $29.95 retail.

The Koch site has even less info.

Tim

Passport/Koch is a "public domain" outfit. The BB are not public domain so I wonder if this is really an East Side Kids collection (they used the same general group of actors). If Passport is illegally releasing BB movies, I'm sure they'll be getting a letter from Warner legal.

I'll wait for the Warners releases.

Steve

The Warner Chat that was conducted here a few months ago stated that Bowery Boys sets would be coming out from them, starting in '06. The Koch release is most likely the East Side Kids era, before they became known as the Bowery Boys in 1946.

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

The last we heard about the Boys is that the planned 2006 releases were put on hold pending WHV finding better elements.

Has there been any additional word on whether they've been successful in locating any?

Thanks,

Steve

BRING ON THE BOWERY BOYS!!!!!!

"Hello! I have a little matter I would like to disgust (discuss) with you. It refrains (refers) to some kids here in the Bowery. You see, I'm what you call a benefracturer (benefactor) of humanity, and being that this matter is highly contagious (comprehensive) I'd like it if me and my accomplice (colleague), Mr. Jones, could come out tonight and prevaricate (prevail) about it in person. But tell me, are you going to coagulate (cooperate) with us, or ain't you?"--Terrence Aloysius "Slip" Mahoney (Leo Gorcey) from THE BOWERY BOYS MEET THE MONSTERS (1954) screenplay by Ellwood Ullman and Edward Bernds, directed by Edward Bernds.

Warner Brothers Home Entertainment said the same precise thing about the (previous) delay with THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN tv series starring George Reeves in that the company was having difficulty with some of the source elements available in their archives but they ended up releasing some shoddy and abbreviated video transfers just the same (ie. "The Stolen Costume").

Ultimately this will likely prove to be the case with a DVD release of THE BOWERY BOYS films I fear.

There is also the precedent that Warner Brothers previously announced the impending DVD release of FORBIDDEN PLANET (1956) for 2005 which was delayed for a year and will now (finally) be made available this November 2006.

The (main) holdup in this instance is that the company wants to make available these films in their original theatrical release order and it would seem that the earliest titles in the series (ie. LIVE WIRES, IN FAST COMPANY, etc.) are the ones that are in the less-than-presentable condition.

Instead of keeping everyone (anxiously) waiting as a sign of good faith why don't they just release some of the films that are in good condition to get this DVD film series started? Who really cares about their original production order anyway?

Whenever I've seen these films on tv broadcasts the print quality (if memory serves me correctly) has always been just fine with the exception that condensed (or rather edited) 50 minute versions deliberately shortened to fit an hour length timeslot have been made available for tv syndication (the average film actually runs anywhere from 61 to 70 minutes in length).

So it may be that some of the original, full-length source elements after so many years are now completely missing from the Warner film vaults.

Perish the thought!

This is my first message post made in this discussion forum typed out in sterile, flat, undistinguished typing and it looks as such!

Jeff T.

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

You know what?

Above all other studios, Warner has a reputation of doing the
best restoration job on their classic library. They aren't perfect
(The Searchers is an example that comes to mind), but history
has shown that they will absolutely delay the release of a title
until it can be completed to perfection.

I would much rather wait an additional year for Warner to do the
best possible job with The Bowery Boys than see the sort of
subpar presentation that is available through the public domain
companies.

Remember, the studio isn't just restoring these films for the sake
of DVD. They are restoring film for history sake to be released on
all future high-definition formats available now and in the future.

I don't believe rushing these releases to DVD is the right thing to do.

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

Let's be patient- the fact that Warners is looking for better source material is a tribute to Bowery Boys fans everywhere. As soon as the best elements are found, they'll probably accelerate the process of bringing the series to DVD. It'll be worth the wait.

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

I'll take the Bowery Boys in the condition they are in vs. not at all. I know Warners is good at restoring but with 48 films and these not exactly considered film classics I don't think they would spend that much money restoring 48 films as much as I would like to believe that. I think that is why they are searching for better prints to release so they don't have to restore them and since many of the films are not in very good condition right now. The problem with the searching is that its not that likely that there are better prints. These were low budget films by Monogram pictures printed on low budget film stock and probably not well preserved over the years.

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

I couldn't agree more. Restoration is a beautiful thing, but there's only so much Warner can do with each and every title. Out of 48 Bowery Boys films, some are bound to be more or less pristine than others. With some prints you just can't get blood from a stone; if all 48 movies can't look sparkling, then all 48 simply can't look sparkling, and that's it. My worry is that Warner may be afraid to release the entire series at all if they can't make them all look like they were filmed yesterday. I don't mind waiting if we can be sure it'll pay off, but the core audience for these older films ain't gettin' any younger, either.

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

I'm ok with waiting until Warners finds acceptable prints. I may not be getting any younger, but I plan on being around for quite a while yet

Anyone reading the other current threads where WHV is getting beat up for perceived problems with The Searchers and Naked Spur readily recognizes that releasing a "good enough" or merely adequate DVD isn't going to cut it (or think back to the threads complaining about the Val Lewton DVDs). The Bowery Boys may not have been "A" level pictures, but their fan base holds them in "A" level esteem.

Monogram elements are problematic, but after seeing Dillinger from Noir 1 it appears that good prints do exist of at least some of these films. I am confident that if better prints can be found, Warners will find them.

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

But I wonder if it's a matter of the prints they've seen so far being "unacceptable" or just that they're not "immaculate"? If it turned out that they couldn't find "perfect" prints for each and every one of the 48 films, would you rather they shelved the whole project? That's what I'm concerned about.

Warner is a great studio, but it's not like they haven't released some titles that were less than pristine before. Their Val Lewton Horror Collection was an example of this.

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

In defense of Warners one must remember that the RKO film library changed hands quite a bit over the decades, and original negatives/prints got lost in the shuffle. The fact that Citizen Kane looks good as it does on DVD is a miracle when you consider that the original camera negative was lost. Apparently the Lewton films suffered from all the ownership changes.

THE SOURCE ELEMENTS TO BE USED!!!!!!

This is definitely going to be a tough call!

I think Randy is probably correct in that Warner Brothers is (likely) going to merely utilize their best existing prints currently in circulation for this particular DVD film series.

I also believe there is some confusion in that the Eastside Kids comedies (of the early to mid-1940s) have always been in (generally) reprehensibly poor condition due no doubt to their having been processed on inferior film stock (as suggested) but The Bowery Boys movies (of the late 1940s and the entire 1950s) released for tv syndication since 1960 were usually in quite outstanding shape by comparison.

I've (personally) seen several Monogram Pictures/Allied Artists Pictures Corporation SF and horror films of the 1950s fully restored to pristine quality and believe me there was absolutely nothing wrong with the particular type of film stock used.

Of course Warner Brothers could (pleasantly) surprise us all and do extensive restoration work on this film property after all. Hope springs eternal!

Jeff T.

Re: THE SOURCE ELEMENTS TO BE USED!!!!!!

I hope they do great restorations on these also. It would be a dream come true. I just don't think it will happen. The cost vs. return for Warners would keep them from doing this. If they wouldn't spend the money on "The Naked Spur" for restoration why would they spend the money for 48 Bowery Boys movies?

Regarding the condition of the films. Yes the Eastside Kids do generally look worse but the Bowery Boys were Monogram from 1946-1952 and then switched to Allied Artists from 1953-1958. The Allied Artists films are in great shape, its about 6-8 of the Monogram films that are not so good at least based on the TV prints that TCM used about 10 years ago. They oddly showed only the 1st 43 films and left out the last 5. Maybe decent copies of the last 5 are also part of the problem.

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

I was going to ask about that. I just got TCM last month (thanks, Cablevision) and I was wondering what they looked like in the marathon airing.

BTW, are all of the Eastside Kids films (which I consider better and more entertaining than BB) PD? Is there any chance of a legit, remastered release of those films?

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

The Eastside Kids films are PD up to a certain year (I think 1944). The films after that are still covered by copyright. That is why one will find many ALPHA type titles of the first 15 or so titles but none of the last batch.

Steve

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

According the Movies Unlimited website, the prospects of getting the Bowery Boys on DVD are potentially in jeopardy.



The same column also mentions that Warners plans for a Monogram Chan set may have been derailed for the same reason.

I guess the next question is how bad are the available Bowery Boys prints and are there any good quality 16mm prints that could fit the bill? I know WHV doesn't like to use 16mm because of the quality dropoff but if quality 35mm elements are truly lost to the ages then, in my opinion, consumers would be more forgiving of a less than stellar presentation.

Steve

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

We will be meeting with Warner in less than 2 weeks. If I
remember, I'll ask them about these films.

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

Absolutely! C'mon, Warner --- we're not looking for "stellar and immaculate quality or nothing" on Bowery Boys titles, of all things (sheesh!). Weren't many of the Monogram Studio films made cheaply to begin with??

There were TCM airings of many of these several years ago and they looked fine. I even have recordings on VHS taken off all different TV broadcasts from various locations through the years, and they're good. So use immaculate elements for the titles where you can, and where nothing perfect exists, we'll settle for whatver is available - what other choice do we have? To NOT have these films released? Not an option! Add a disclaimer that "these have been taken from the best surviving elements," if need be!

Even on past sets from Warner, which are almost always beautiful, there have been less-then-perfect prints in some cases; the Val Lewton RKO horrors left much to be desired in some of the prints, like the spotty I WALKED WITH A ZOMBIE (which comes to mind). Some of the old TARZAN films didn't look as great as others, picture-wise. Look at the relatively weak quality of The Three Stooges film MEET THE BARON, as released in the recent "Comedy Teams" collection as released from Warner! In the ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN episodes, a great episode called "The Stolen Costume" was rendered from 16mm. So it's not like Warner has adopted a firm "it must always be immaculate quality or bust!!" attitude in the past.... why should the Bowery Boys (who are fun, but are not exactly CITIZEN KANE material) be any different? You guys are terrific -- absolutely the best company going today! Believe me, the niche audiences buying the Bowery Boys films will understand the position you're in.

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

For what it's worth, there was a question about the Bowery Boys on the MoviesUnlimited Q&A page, posted yesterday:

http://www.moviesunlimited.com/musit..._06_070107.asp

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

Thanks, Ron. Please let us know what you find out.

Joe, I agree with you. I was willing to wait for a release while WHV searched for better elements since in my opinion it would have been worth the wait. Now that it is somewhat evident that there are none to be found let's go to Plan B.

Fox mistakenly used a 16mm print for one of their Laurel and Hardy features on one of their L&H box sets. Although the dropoff was evident (and annoying since a high quality 35mm was available and was intended to be used) the results made for more than acceptable viewing since the print was clean and free of damage. Without having first hand knowledge of what WHV has in the way of BB prints, I would hope something similar could be done for the BB, at least for the titles whose 35mm elements are lost/substandard.

CineKarine - no offense, but that was the same link I posted, and gave attribution to, in my post yesterday.

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

So sorry! I don't know how I missed it!

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

Warner please release them as is. As I mentioned before I believe only about 8 of the films are in really poor shape the rest are all acceptible. The fans will buy these if they are released properly: complete and in chronological sets. Most of the fans who will be the core audience are aware from years of poor TV prints what these look like and I'm sure they will improve a bit with a decent transfer and by being on DVD. We would rather have them than not at all.

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

Right! Although I'd just like to add to Warner... I'd buy 'em even if they're not released in strict chronological order! I've seen these films offered elsewhere by other sellers, but I prefer the Real McCoy's (WB)!

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

Guys, just a reminding word that you probably are not going to like to read about. Warner is probably like any other large company that sells a product. However, like any product being sold, they have quality standards that need to be met before any product is released to the general public. If those 16MM sources don't produce a transfer up to those quality standards than the chances of Warner releasing dvds derived from those sources is very small. Companies usually don't deviate from their quality policy, especially in today's competitive market, unless under some extreme condition. Furthermore, quality standards are written and place in procedure format for a reason and that is to ensure quality products are being produced and sold under that company's name. Companies are always striving for continous improvement and adhering to quality standards is a tool used in that endeavor. I'm not trying to throw cold water on you guys, but Warner is no different than IBM, General Electric, GM or any other company.

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

Which means that we won't be getting these at least not from Warner which is what I have been fearing all along. From reading books on these films, following them on tv for 25+ years and knowing a bit about the history of Monogram films. I didn't believe that better prints would be found and 2 years of Warner searching with no results kind of backs that up. I wish Warner would consider giving the rights to these to a smaller company if they will not release them.

Re: Where are 'The Bowery Boys'.

Not necessarily, but I'm not holding my breath. Also, giving up their rights to any of their titles is against another company policy that I don't see them changing, but you never know.




Crawdaddy