Best way to learn a foreign language quickly in your home?

Wow, what a coincidence!

I've been doing some research online to find the best Spanish teaching software. My wife and I are planning on going to the Dominican in June, so I too thought it would be a good idea. We're going to Punta Cana.

So far, based on the reviews I've read, Learn to Speak Spanish from the Learning Company has been the best.

I'm sure most people will say that actually trying to converse with someone is the best way. I would have to agree.

The sad thing is that I'm actually Hispanic. I never learned while growing up, but I'm planning on doing a lot of practicing with my dad and grandmother before I go. I'm also interested in hearing what other methods have worked.

We're staying at Paradisus Punta Cana.
My uncle is the one that turned us on to Punta Cana. He went last year and stayed at one of the Bavaro resorts, not sure which one. He had a great time, very relaxing.

We must have been reading some of the same reviews and stuff for Punta Cana. From what I read, and from my uncle, it wouldn't hurt to know some Spanish.

All you need to know is (my Spanish is muy rusty, forgive the bad syntax):

?El donde el bano, por favor?

!Dos cervasas, por favor!

and:

S-O-C-K-S

The problem with “¿Donde está el baño, por favor?”, is not in asking the question but in understanding the reply.

No problem at all with ¡Dos mas cervezas, por favor!

Have fun Ron.

I agree with that too. You just won't _retain_ as much by only utilzing software to learn a foreign language. It's a good companion to real live practice though. Using a language in a social context or workplace allows you to retain more of _how_ another language is used day to day. Definitely hit your dad & abuela for the good stuff . You could have them do a little skit or something to teach you the basics of communicating w/ the staff where you'll be staying.

When I was learning Portuguese in college I probably picked up more than I every would in class by listening to and practicing with the Brazilian TAs & grad students in the bars . Knowing Spanish only got me so far without that extra help...

-Pedro

"Soy amigo de Pedro Martinez."

Is the Learning Company the one that does the SOCKS? If it is, I'd probably look for something less gimmicky. Sometimes one of the PBS SDTV multicast or cable channels runs lessons for foreign languages.

Tengo el gato en mis pantalones.

I don't mean to have a chuckle at your expense, Jerry, but excuse me if I do.

And, you live in FL, too. Oh, the humanity. Ok, I'll stop.

Todd

(WV native, can't speak proper English )

I used Berlitz long ago just for fun and was making good progress. Then I moved, got married and had children.

Aye carrumba!

I'd have been glad to send you the tapes (yes, that old) but they are packed away right now while my home is being restored.

Berlitz is possibly one of the oldest and most respected names.

Spanish? That's nothing, I have to learn Swedish. Now that's a tough one!

(although still probably easier to learn than Japanese or Chinese?)

Why do you have to learn Swedish? Work related, or girlfriend related .

cheers,
P

I believe Gary is moving to Sweden.

Yeah I'm moving right after Episode 3 comes out(don't want to see it dubbed or with subtitles!). But it's not 100% until I get my passport back from the Swedish government, hopefully with a residential permit stamp included. If not Sweden then France, or maybe Australia. Or Mars.

I'll add Learn in Your Car Spanish Level 1(Amazon shows ISBN: 1591252040) for the set. I used the entire 3 levels before moving to Mexico, and it really helped a lot in giving me the vocabulary to understand most phrases that are used in Latin America.

If you're going on vacation, I would recommend getting the level 1 and a good english/spanish dictionary. Try your stuff out at a local latin resturant, waiters are usually really nice with helping you out and telling you how to say different things.

Good luck and enjoy your trip!

Good suggestions Matt.

Some of the educational software out there comes with the audio cd's for the car, but the one I was recommending doesn't. I was still thinking about getting a hold of some as well, the more practice the better.

I'll look into the one you suggested.

I was going to say go to a restaurant as well, but Ron's looking for ways to learn in the home. Maybe he could order take-out from home.

Hey Ron
Make sure you visit Santa Domingo besides the Resost. We swent about 8 years ago and were very happy we did. SD is filmed if they want a pre-castro Havana. Oldest city in the new world and a lot of real cool places to see. I remember hitting a night club that was a real cave under the street.
Have a great time!
Grant

Ronald, may I suggest the Pimsleur Approach?

Most programs are pure crapola. Avoid them.

If your idea is fluency, give it up. That takes about 6 months to a year if you are constantly surrounded by it daily. If you are lucky, maybe less. You can learn just a ton if you were fully surrounded for 6 weeks, but you probably wont be, so lets try to help. Recommended Materials past the following fluff advice.

Is it possibly to become fluent in Spanish in the US? Yes, it is. It's probably one of the only languages where this is possible and maintain it. You have so many good learning materials, so many people, tv channels, radio sations, etc., now that you can actually become fluent without leaving the US. It can be done. People have done just that because they didnt have the money to run away to a different country for a year.

I am in the process of my own immersion program right now. Am I able to be surrounded 24/7? No. I just do what I can.

I was able to teach myself the whole first year of College Spanish in 2 and 1/2 months, so it obviously works. You just need excellent materials and a good plan. You must also be dedicated.

Why am I doing this? Well, typical school languages classes suck and are a waste of time not to mention money. This is unless you go to an awesome program like Berlitz, Don Q., the Government programs (though you have to be in the Government), etc.

Remember those language classes you took in High School? Anyone remember much in those 1-4 years? Proven fact. These types of classes are a pure waste of time. They fail close to 100% of those who take them. Proven fact. Why they are even required is a mystery. No one seems to remember a thing as it is. Why? Well, your not even taught how to speak first. This is quite obvious? In English we didnt exactly learn how to read English Literature without knowing how to speak and say simple sentences.

If you plan on not sounding like a total goon, you best learn how to speak and learn all the naunces of the language before you learn to read. If not, you will sound like an American Gringo with a horrible accent. This is because you will be prouncing things the way you would in English. It grates on the nerves of the natives. You will be called everything under the sun.

Here are some materials you can try.

Listening/Speaking:

Start Here:

1. http://www.how-to-speak.com/?hop=normjack

Excellent Program. Costs $19.95. Will teach you over 3000 words in 30 days. And yes, it does work. Brilliant program. You also get a personal coach for 30 days as well as native lessons (so you can start to learn to speak like a native).

Next try these (All are expensive. For the serious only):

1. Learning Spanish Like Crazy Lessons at www.learningspanishlikecrazy.com

(Follows the pimsler approach, but is even better with more explanations and very up to date. Just made this year. Will teach you to speak everyday spanish. Will also teach you dirty spanish if you want to know it.)

2. Pimsler Comprehensive 1-3 (Watch out for some outdated things). These are typically formal courses. They teach how to speak formally, not everyday speech.

3. FSI Levels 1 & 2. Boring. But you should not have too tough of a time if you did the others first.


Some material for Grammer and beginning reading which work great:

Start Here: (The Best Ones which are fortunately not expensive at all. They actually beat many higher priced ones. They are worlds better than any textbook I have seen. Then again unfair comparison. Textbooks generally suck.).

1. Madrigals Magic Key to Spanish ($10). A few things are outdated. This is from the 50's, but is way ahead of it times. Accelerated Learning. This book is a goldmind for the beginner.

2. Dorothy Richmonds Verb Tenses (Mastering Verbs is extremely important). A Diamand Mind.

3. Dorothy Richmonds Pronouns and Prepositions. Another Gold Mind of info. Will save you many mistakes.

P.S. Avoid "Michel Thomas Lessons" unless you are looking for a good laugh. The quality of instruction is good, but his accent is bad. Never learn from those with bad accents. He also constantly yells at his students. I laughed my way through these. He sure is a cranky old bastard.

Once you finish all of this, you should be at an Intermediate Level of Speaking and you will be able to begin basic reading with ease.

Basically immerse yourself. Listen to the radio. Find Spanish tv that seems interesting to you. Read Household Labels, learn new words everyday. Etc, etc. There are so many different ways to teach yourself this language that you shouldnt loose interest.

Childrens books are a good way to teach everyday basic vocabulary as well. Basically, expose yourself everyday to the language and you will make excellent progress in a short time.

Ryan,

While the gist of the intitial post was regarding learning language for a vacation, I'm going to respond to your comments on becoming fluent.

Unfortunately there is not such a formulaic answer for becoming 'fluent' in any foreign language. It's obviously going to vary from person to person [including their definition of 'fluent' ]. I learned Spanish as a second language and IME, most college students who have lived abroad for only one year rarely become fluent that quickly without having worked from a broader base of knowledge. Most lose much of what they have learned when they return.


[quote]I am in the process of my own immersion program right now. Am I able to be surrounded 24/7? No. I just do what I can.[/quote}

That is great to hear. From someone who is also very enthusiastic about learning other languages, I like to hear someone else trying it too. It's been a bit rough for me learning Polish from my wife's family, trying to practice by listening to news on the radio & internet, & participating in discussions at family dinners when I've barely scratched the surface with grammar & the 'basics' . I found it much easier to do it with the Spanish (& Portuguese) I learned from the ground up.


It's good to learn it quickly, but keep in mind that foreign language _retention_ is different than completing college courses. It's a whole different ball game. For most college students it's not related to a major, but merely completing requirements for a degree. That's why they won't typically learn it well under those circumstances. They could very well become fluent with outside work on their part, like utilizing some of the great resources you've mentioned. There are no really good shortcuts to learning a foreign language other than time spent. It really has to seep in to be retained for future use.


While it's true that in some high schools the curriculum is much to be desired. But you also aren't taking into consideration that the 'goal' of most h.s. spanish courses isn't fluency, but exposure to another language/culture. Again, how well someone's going to learn it is going to vary wildly so you cannot really generalize they are a complete waste of time. More importantly, few students spend the additional hour per hour of class time outside of class practicing like they should to become more functionally fluent.

My initial exposure to the Spanish language was in middle school at age 11. Later on while I did pretty well compared to my classmates in h.s., I still had to practically re-learn formal Spanish in college to be more solid in speaking it properly with native speakers. A little more face time with native speakers helped a great deal, and did having a boss who was yelling at you in Spanish .

-P

I thought if you shouted in English loud enough, they would understand you?

I'd suggest a phrase book, too. It's useful to know canned phrases: How much does it cost? What time is it? Where is the bus/train/airport?

And maybe a pad of paper so the other person can jot down a sketch or words if you're in a tight spot.

I visited the DR back in college -- a one week missions trip, so we spent the week working with locals. It was a great trip. But they weren't kidding when they said, don't drink the water. Apparently I got some, and it was a tough flight home at the end of the week.

Exactly. One of my teachers here calls that the "survival phase" of language learning. You can get around, give basic directions, bargain in the markets, compliment people, request a table by the beach, etc. You're not going to be able to conjugate all the verbs correctly, but you can get the point across. Which for a vacation is perfect.



Ryan - my experience in Latin America has been quite contrary to this. Even after extended immersion most gringos still sound a little like gringos, and unless you are darker skinned and not wearing clothes that scream "American! Check me out!" they're going to know anyway . Unlike the US where we are very impatient with people who are learning our language, everyone I've met has really appreciated even an attempt to converse in Spanish, even in the mercados where they speak NO english. Even in business situations, trying to speak in Spanish will often really soften the conversation and make the relationship more casual. I definitely agree that audio learning is a must to be comfortable conversing, but as one part of a process that includes written or visual materials.

Matt,

What I did learn at the beginning, I learned in Miami. This could make a difference. I don't know. My experience was that the young people were especially not very friendly at mistakes. The adults were more forgiving (they appreciated the effort), but I noticed the annoyance.

Idiota/Hijo de Puta/Esa fue una hijoputada.

These don't exactly send off feelings of charm and warmth. lol. Insults were the first thing I picked up.

I have never gone to a different Spanish speaking country. Of course everyones experience is different. I am just sharing mine. At the beginning it was not pleasant.

-----------------
What is fluent to me? Being able to hold your own, survive in everyday life, watch tv, listen to the radio, and read. Things like that. I am not there myself. I have a long ways to go. But, I have come a long way in a short time. I will be able to bypass the entire Foreign Language sequence (Spanish 1-4) for a masters degree (my major is not Spanish) by summer. You have to read and speak at an intermediate-Intermediate High level to do so. To do that in 6 months (on personal time) is fast. Just from making it a part of life. Traditional students take 2-4 years in the traditional classroom. I dont have that time to waste. I will also save tons of tuition money. It's really why I started. I not only get to learn something useful, but I will also saves $1000's and $1000's of dollars. I just found I actually had an interest in it which makes me want to keep going. Shocking as the High School experience of learning a language made me hate it at the time.

What is true fluency? Dont know if there is such a thing. Everyones opinion will be different. Most native speakers of English aren't truly fluent (as in having an excellent command of the English language) if you ask me. Many people have no idea of how the language even works. I have some clue, but I wouldn't consider myself truly fluent in English either. It's my native language. I am sure I still make many mistakes.

P.S. Items recommended are just a start. Anyone who thinks reading one book or doing only tapes (or even doing all theitems I recommend) will lead them to fluency has a screw loose. Speaking continually and being surrounded is the best way. But all these items can help in the progress. Thats why I clearly stated Intermediate Speaking/Beginner Reading level. It's just a very powerful beginning. Nothing more. But, it makes things much easier. I know from trial and error. It's what I did. I was not a prime student when I first started. I set out to change that in any way possible. Once I taught all that to myself, I notice I pick up things much easier by the day.

Of course you are going to need to learn grammer/verb tenses/structure of the language/etc. Thats what all the written materials I recommend teach. I just said it's not wise to begin with those things first without any speaking ability. You want to pronouce the letters the correct way first. Thats what I was taught. It's a mistake I made (Which I caught quickly before making a huge mistake). Thats what a couple natives (Who learned English the hard way) I talked to told me as well. Imitate the native speakers of whatever language you choose. Or as much as possible.

If you learn to speak Spanish in an English voice and tone, it will be a difficult habit to break. So, why not just avoid it as much as possible to begin with?

Where did I get 6 months to a year fluency from? Many Schools (as in Don Quijote, several colleges, FSI (To complete 1-8 which is certified fluency as by the government), many articles, The creator of Musical Spanish, etc., all recommend 6 months to a year for the average learner (Intensive study). Many people being many jobs for example. + (+ could be years) to take away what many people would consider to be fluent.

Some students will take years if they are slow learners. If they dont make an effort to learn and speak, they will never learn it no matter how long they are in a country. My friends parents has lived in the US for 10 years and can't speak a drop on English.

Of course every student will be different. It's just info I read about and have asked about over the months. Not like it's written in blood.

Also, people who dont use the language are going to loose it. I was fluent in German till age 8 (My grandmother taught it to me as a baby and young child). After her death, I never had exposure to the language again. There was no way to really maintain it in the 80's. No internet, no one around me spoke it, no tv channels, no radio, and almost no materials at that point. I dont remember anything. Learning a language is not like learning to ride a bike. You have to use it forever to maintain and/or improve upon it. That's common sense.

Is it surprising that people learn some Spanish on a trip, come back to the US, never or barely speak it, don't use it in their daily life, loose it over time, then completely forget it all together? Nope. Not really. Of course that will happen. It happened to me with Calculus. I don't remember one formula. That's what years of not doing something will do.

It has happened to many people who once knew Italian dialects, Dutch, Icelandic, and any other language someone happens to be forced away from.

Spanish is a language in this day and age in the US that such a thing doesn't have to happen. If you go out of country, learn things specific to that country, then come back? Yes, you will loose much of it over time from no exposure. But, you wont lose your entire Spanish in general ability if you maintain daily life chatter, follow news programs, telenovelas, newspapers, etc. It is very easy to incorporate it into everyday life in most areas of the US. Spanish speakers are lucky. Not so lucky if your language is Icelandic or Gaelic for example if in the US.

I agree....My wife is Cuban from Miami so a lot of her older family doesn't speak English. When I try and pick my Spanish back up the kids will giggle but the older people try and help.

Matt is correct. Comprehension of any language and the ability to articulate your thoughts well, has little to do with the ability to speak with no (or little) accent.

For example, when I first worked in Venezuela, one of the guys I worked with spoke English like an American. Another person (his boss and my direct client contact) spoke with a marked Latin accent. One might incorrectly conclude that the first person´s understanding of English was better. In fact however, he had learned English as a child growing up with US oil company empolyees´ children and even though he had never been to the US, since he learned as a child and from natives his accent was as theirs (and since he worked in IT for an oil company he kept up his language skills). The second person had only studied English in school and did not speak much or with English speaking natives until he went to the US to college.

After getting two degrees, his English was very sophisticated, but still accented. He could understand, speak and write at a level far above the first person.

In many languages, non-native speakers cannot even hear the differences in particular sounds in the language, making it hard to reproduce those sounds accurately.

I know that I´ll always have a decided English accent when speaking Spanish. I have yet to meet Latin Americans who were so rude as to comment on my inability to always trill my ´R´s to the proper degree or to always give the vowels their full, lovely rounded weight.

Of course I´d agree that young people in many places are not so respectful as adults. More so for those who may feel displaced.

I'm leaning a few languages myself. It's not work related, it's simply because I don't want to only know English. Besides, I love foreign films and watching them without subtitles would be great.

At the present, I'm learning Spanish, French & Japanese.

The first Spanish program I tried, was the horrible Michel Thomas. This program should not be allowed to be sold. Not only are his "students" not able to ever pronounce the words correctly, he himself has a bad accent and incorrectly misprounces a few words as well.

Now I'm leaning Spanish through Pimsleur, which I find is much easier to learn. Plus the speakers are native, so you always get the correct pronunciation, without horrible accents, or even "students" who never learn (as in the Michel Thomas lessons).

I'm also learning French & Japanese through Pimsleur's programs as well.

Spanish is by far the easiest language to learn. I pick it up with no effort at all.

French is quite difficult, but not impossible. I have trouble, but I have a French speaking friend who helps me out whenever he can.

Japanese is almost impossible! According to the narrator, you're supposed to move on to the next lesson, when you've mastered about 80% of the material, but the problem I'm having with Japanese, is the fact that when it's spoken quickly (as they do in these lessons) I am not able to comprehend, or rather, my mind is not able to make sense of what is being said at the speed that the people are speaking it.

I've "mastered" 100% of the material on the first 3 lessons of Japanese, and even though I know how to properly pronounce the words and know what their meanings are, when spoken at a fast pace, I don't understand what the words mean, because my brain is too slow to "decode" the message.

Not so with French or Spanish. I don't have nearly as much trouble with these.

What about everyone else? Do any of you have "slow" brains that can't decode, even though you know 100% of the words spoken and their meanings?

The foriegn language teacher at my school likes the pimsluer (sp?) method the best for learning on your own. Lately, I have been trying to teach myself German using "The Everything Learning German Book. While I read the German words I say everything outloud. But still, it is hard for my to understand even some individual words when I hear a native speak it. But, when I see it written, I can figure some out.

I have learned from this experience that speaking and hearing the language, and reading the language are 2 completely different things.

Stefan