Maggie update - Page 48

Re: Maggie update

Those ET speakers are low sensitivity but 8ohms. Of course, all of the Audiosource amps are stable to 2ohms (stereo) so they shouldn't struggle with the Maggies too bad. I used an Audiosource amp 5.3 to power my sub for a very long time without any issues.

Re: Maggie update

Thank you all for your feedback.

Please post some links to amps that will drive the MMGs well in a large room within $200-300.

What is a preamp? Can't I just hook my player's out (RCA L/R) directly to an amp and be good to go? Please excuse my newbiness.

Bad politicians and poor choices all around have left me in a funk. Even the music is not helping. I hate flipping coins.

Gasdoc

Re: Maggie update

Since Dean has not come in to comment on the UcD amps, I'll stop lurking and pipe up here.

I started with a new pair of MMGs about 4 years ago, initially running them off a somewhat anemic Alesis RA 100 with a Norh ACA preamp. THey sounded quite good but were definitely lacking in low end, which I remedied with a 10" sealed sub/woofer and an active XO at 250 Hz, running off a BIG crown macrotech amp. THis was all in a pretty small listening room (10x11).

After several months, I moved up to an Odyssey Stratos amp. One of the things I did at that point was try them straight without the woofer. There was a tremendous difference in the bass output of the MMGs with the RA-100 and the Stratos. So I am definitely in the camp that says a good SS amp with respectable power (Stratos is 260W into 4Ω) will improve bass quite a bit. And the upper end was also rather improved witht he stratos (as you would expect comparing a $1000 amp to a $200 low power pro studio amp).

Anyway, shortly after that, moved the MMGs downstairs into the HT to compensate for an uncompleted DIY speaker effort (maggies sapped alot of the motivation to complete it away). I tried them briefly with an old Sony prologic receiver. Bleh.

Later added an Outlaw 950 prepro to this setup with the 2 ch preamp still in the system with an HT bypass. The room is 35x15x9, and the MMGs were able to fill it pretty admirably. Blew the tweeter fuses one time during a rather loud movie, but in general they were able to play at any level I was up for. Lived with that setup for quite a while. Work travel and family commitments conspired to prevent the DIY speakers from ever getting built, and finally last July, I upgraded to 1.6s with a pair of MGMC1's as surrounds.

Definitely an improvement, although not as big as I was expecting. For me the most noticeable difference was the effort the new maggies needed to hit louder levels. Then in September, dumped the RA 100 for surround duty and added a 4 ch UcD 180 from Exodus audio. While I was putting it into the rack, I spent some time going back and forth on the 1.6s with the Stratos and the Exodus. Hard to be definitive, but at worst it was a pretty even match, and at best, the UcD was a little cleaner and clearer, the main difference I think I heard being less sibilance on the UcD.

I have since found the the MGMC1s are not able to quite keep up with the 1.6's on multichannel at louder volumes, so I am looking at buying another pair of MMGs (sold my old ones) to add as side surrounds, and moving the MC1s to the rear surrounds where they won't be asked to do as much (or anything on multichannel SACD, which is where I am running into issues).

Down the road, I am adding a CC3, and may swap the stratos out for a UcD400 amp.

BB

Re: Maggie update

Gasdoc:

You sure can use your receiver's pre-outs and connect them directly to an amp....in fact, for those on a budget I'd say it's a perfect way to go


Brandon: Thanks for chiming in! Nice to see someone who is able to substantiate the sort of stuff I usually tell people about Maggies - particularly the MMGs. I think you'll be pretty happy with that CC3 if and when you pull the trigger on it. I ran my MMGs phantom, but I did hear the CC3 with some 1.6s and it was a very nice speaker. If you feel like spending even more money, I heard that the new ribbon center that Magnepan has coming out actually blends spectacularly well with the 1.6s, even though the 1.6s are the quasi-ribbon. It should be out pretty soon, as they've been talking about it forever and have had it at one or two of the more recent shows.

Re: Maggie update

Hi guys,
I am interested in the comparisons of the mmg to the 1.6. I have read a few but it seems as though the jump is not substantial. Also a comparison if someone has done so, between using the phantom center or the cc3. My idea is either four mmg's and the cc3 or a pair of 1.6 and a pair of mmg with no center speaker. Although the cc3 may well be worth the money,I could almost get a used pair of 1.6 for the price. I still would like to use no sub for music and really only want one for below 40-50 hz in movies. Most music listening is done in a multi-channel mode and not seated near the system. Opinions please, and thanks.
andy

Re: Maggie update

Hi Andy:

I've only herad the 1.6s at my local dealer, but I can tell you that IMO they are definitley worth the step up from the MMGs. Both the MMGs and 1.6s are incredible values at their respective price points, so you really couldn't go wrong with either. I typically encourage people to start with the MMGs since Magnepan has the trade-up program that many people find extremely helpful. As far as a phantom center vs. the cc3, I'm sort of biased cause I've been running a phantom center for several years now, and with a few different pairs of speakers. That being said, the Maggies probably did the BEST job of throwing a phantom image, so you may really find you prefer it if you're open to the idea. The CC3 is a spectacular center, though, so the option is there should you wish to pursue it.

You guys who have the room for MMGs in back are really lucky! I know that there are a few people at the audio asylum who run their system like that and they love it. I think 1.6s up front, MMGs in back, and either a cc3 or phantom center would be pretty amazing!

I'll throw another idea out there for you since it sounds like you're working w/in a budget and/or trying to squeeze as much value as you can out of this potential system. As I've suggested to others, I'd give a pair of Mye stands (www.myesound.com) some very serious consideration. They run around 3-400, so if that puts you over budget then consider a pair of MG12s up front with the Mye stands instead of the 1.6s. The more you can stabilize the panels the better they will sound.

I'll let the other guys take it from here since they're probably more familiar with the bigger Maggies than I am....good luck!

Re: Maggie update

I'd second starting with the MMGs. Live with them a bit as mains and decide if you want more before moving them to surround duty.

As for the phatom center setup, been doing that for 4 years now. If you are listening/watching alone or at most with one other person who you don'tmind having right up against you, there really is no reason to get a CC3. But if you are trying to get good imaging across a whole couch, you really do need it with the maggies. Only reason I have not done so yet is I am still not finished with the unit which will raise my TV up freeing space for the center.

BB

Re: Maggie update

Things like this are the reason why I run a separate setup for my HT and stereo. Its nice that ultimately I can run decent HT equipment all around and splurge a bit more on stereo because I don't have to try and find matching surrounds and center. But I have a large dedicated room and understand that not everyone has that luxury.

Re: Maggie update

Hi,
thanks for the input. I will need to fill the width of a sectional couch and my lazy-ass recliner. Even though it is not centered, I prefer to sit in the recliner and kick back. Although the couches recline also, its just not the same. I did listen to the Vandersteen 3a's in phantom and it was great, but any other time I have tried it, it seems as though something is missing across the sound field.
What is the general rule of thumb on the MMG for a high pass x-over? I would really like to have the corner fq at about 40-50hz with a gradual slope but it sounds like it must be higher with the MMG. This is where I thought the larger panel might be better off, not requiring the use of an expensive sub to blend well, and just using my (2) 15's below 40hz for movies. Otherwise something like the ScanSpeak 10 aluminum cone at Madisound is purported to be highly rated for music and really quick to keep up.
I think I will use the Yamaha 659 plus the Citation amps or maybe the UDC400 modules by Exodus for the Maggies. I previously had the HaloC2 but the WAF was real low. It was kind of complicated for her operate. I didn't think it was user friendly either.
thank you
andy

Re: Maggie update

In spite of what Magnepan says, the MMGs do start to run out of juice by about 80Hz from my experience. I would not cross them lower than that.

With the 1.6's, you would probably be OK at 60, although I would no go lower than that. But then, I am a bass head.

Re: Maggie update

Hello Friends,

1) I ordered an amp--decided to give The Audio Source Amp 300 a shot. It should be here tomorrow. I will let you know what I think.

2) I love my MMGs for stero music--will never go back. Using them in an HT may cause unacceptable compromises. You almost would need a center and a fantastic sub. I am a newbie so take it for what its worth. (I tried listening to my favorite video concert--Eagles Live in Melbourne-- via the MMGs and they just don't have the punch. I tried a cheapo sub: NO GOOD).

I agree that you almost got to keep music listening and HT systems seperate.

3) I moved my MMGs out a little further: from 3 to 4 ft. Fantastic sound. Maybe, they are 'breaking in'. I am known as the gadget king. Without a doubt the MMGs have brought more pleasure than anything else I have bought $for$ in the last few years. If the amp works out I will add a nice "matching" sub. DIY stands for the MMGs this weekend.

Your continued advice is appreciated.

I feel blessed that I can enjoy music. There are so many friends of mine who just don't appreciate it or are obsessed as I am. I feel for them as life is too short and we all have some hearing loss as we age.

For those who are thinking about it but have not made the jump to Maggies: Just do it. You will be able to hook them up to cheapo receivers. The included stands will work well and you will be satisfied. But preety soon you will become like the rest of us. You will want to squeeze the last drop of performance out of them. Better AMP, matching sub, stands, etc will occupy a great deal of your time and money. But that is what its all about.

Gasdoc Imu

Re: Maggie update

That was a decision I had to make several years ago when we moved to our new house. I'm glad I could go the separate system route!! My old 1.6's and the rest of my maggie HT did great in the old house for movies and music, but since I've stepped up to 3.6's, better amplification and better source, the music system does so much better than when it was an all in one system!!

It's funny, I haven't done a single thing since I put together my new HT in the new house except getting my Elite RPTV recalibrated by Gregg Loewen. But I am on my third amp, second preamp, and a new HDCD player in my 2 channel system. Oh, and the SVS went to the HT system. I have been listening to my maggies without my ML Depth sub lately, and I think the bass is just a bit more accurate without the sub, it just doesn't go as low.

Anyway, it's fun hearing from others that are experiencing the maggie magic, at what ever level or set up that they can. These speakers are keepers, and very good to work with as far as tweaking.

MAGGIE MAGIC!!

Re: Maggie update

I totally agree!! My old all maggie HT was more involving than my current B&W speaker set up. But I had to make a decision on how to use my dedicated room downstairs....and I went with music. If my upstairs room was big enough, the maggies would have been used up there in the HT. Boy, that CC3 and those MC1's along with the 1.6's and PC-Ultra really sounded great.

Re: Maggie update

Gasdoc:
The thing about the MMGs is that they are "cheap" in terms of what they cost, but not in terms of overally quality - as I'm sure you've come to realize over the past week or so So I think if you add other pieces to your system that truly ARE cheap (e.g. the 'cheap' sub you mentioned), then you're likely to have them stand out like a sort thumb. I have no doubt that if you gave your MMGs a "good", even if still relatively inexpensive (such as the SVS PB-10, as I have) subwoofer and a "good" amp, you'd notice quite an improvement in your Eagles multi-channel disc. I have a Blue Man Group DVD-A/DVD-V disc that is MUCH more demanding in the low end than the Eagles disc, and my Maggie system handled it quite well. I think the same is true of HT applications for anyone who is not just wanting to max out SPLs in their room. And don't forget about Mye stands!

Re: Maggie update

Andy:

Sounds like the CC3 will be your best bet, then

As for the crossover, I had mine set at 80hz, but I'd definitely cross the MG12s or 1.6s over at 60.

Re: Maggie update

Hello Friends,

I received my Audio Source 300 AMP and connected my MMGs. The sound now is just a touch fuller, but the difference is not as dramatic as I had wanted. But at least now I don't have to worry about damaging my RCA receiver.

The Audio Source AMP has a few issues:
a) No remote control to change volume or mute. I actually have to get up and do this manually. I may just finally loose some weight.
b) No way to adjust power to second set of speakers. I will explain below.

I wanted to see how my Athena ASF2s would integrate with the MMGs to get the lower frqs. I hooked them up to Speaker B out from the amp. But the Athena's over power the MMGs as they are more effecient--so at any volume level I hear the ASF2s and not the MMGs. I wish I could have had more control from the AMP300.

What I ended up doing is powering the Athenas with my old RCA receiver in stereo mode.

Now I keep the MMGs at a volume I like and add the Athenas just a touch to add the bass without overpowering them. (as you may gather from this is I do miss the bass that the MMGs just can't produce and haven't bought a sub yet).

This integration allows me to have the maggie magic and also the punch from the kick drums that I love. Now the Eagles sound much better with this combo. I will follow 'Z's advice and add a sub in the future.

In home HT mode I also fire off my Pioneer receiver with the Bose Acoustimas 15. I get a nice surround and LFEs without any one speaker dominating.

I wish there was an affordable solution where you could get it all--the maggie magic and the tight low bass. All in one afffordable package. I think magnepan should develop a real HT solution and package it with a sub that they test out at the factory. If they build it, people will buy it. I know I would.

In the meantime I can just use the MMGs with some music and enjoy. With other music I add the Athenas. With HT fire off them all!!

Gasdoc Imu

Re: Maggie update

When I do 'fire them all off' I do take away a little of the Maggie Magic.

But I also don't want to spend the $$$ and the time as Alan M did tweaking for satisfactory HT trying the integrate the maggies. My wife does open the Visa bills and we are already having 'issues' with the MMG and AMP purchase. So for me and for NOW I will keep music and HT separate in the same room, and add my other speakers as needed.

But I repeat: You do end up messing with the MMGs by doing the above. Its like throwing away a lot of good candy in exchange for some other yucky candy that your body craves. (sorry, could't think of anything else to describe this situation. I am kinda of hungry now and am waiting for some Chinese to be delivered).

As soon as I add the low bass from the Athena ASF2 some of the sound stage and clarity to the music is lost. The layers that I experience from the MMGs solo is lost.

Would adding just a sub to the MMGs instead of a second set of speakers like I have done remedy this problem? My fear is that a sub would take away some of the magic just like the ASF2s are doing. Reading from your posts where people are changing subs and amps means that things are not simple with the maggies. I guess you can't have it all unless you are prepared to make the time/$$ investment.

Do I love my wife or my music more?? For now its......

Gasdoc

Re: Maggie update

Gasdoc: I could be wrong about this, but if you're having your Athenas playing the same music as the MMGs, you're going to end up with a comb filtering issue. When you add a subwoofer, the subwoofer (hopefully) "blends" with the MMGs and fills out the bottom end. When you add another pair of speakers that are playing the same frequencies as the mains, then they may have a tendency to interfere with one another and do more harm than good.

As for your new amp, I'm not familiar with that particular model, but if it's ONLY an amp then there won't be any volume controls on it. It would have to be an integrated amp (i.e. including a pre-amp section) in order to have that. If you have the amp connected to your receiver via the receiver's pre-out RCA jacks, then the only volume control in your system is that of the receiver.

Are you running the MMGs full range right now, or do you have them set to "small" and the crossover enabled? For music listening, and until you get a subwoofer, make sure you have your mains (the MMGs) set as "large" on your receiver so that they're playing as much of the signal as they are capable of playing. You don't want to have the crossover set right now cause all you'll do is chop off the low end.

Re: Maggie update

Z:

yes, I am playing the same music through both sets of speakers, and I think you are right that the sum is worth less than either alone. Its just that the Athenas are producing the low range so effortlessly.

I have my DVD hooked up directly to the AudioSource AMP 300 via RCA L/R cables so there is no bass management being apllied. This amp does have volume knobs in the front, so it must be an "integrated amp".

I think I may have to seriously think about adding the sub that you recommende: SVS PB10. You and others on the net tell me it integrates nicely with the MMGs without killing the Maggie magic.

There is a lot of music I enjoy with the MMGs alone (like the Indian music we talked about) and there is much more music where the low end is definitely missed (FUNK, Disco, POP, Reggae, etc). In music with vocals dominating the MMGs are unbeatable with the gear I have.

Continued search to music bliss with a budget,

Gasdoc Imu

Re: Maggie update

GasDoc:

I just looked up your amp online and it's definitely not an integrated. I'm confused as to how you have your system set up now. What you should have is your dvd/cd player hooked into your receiver via an optical or digital coax cable, and then the Audio Source amp should be connected to the receivers "pre-out" jacks.

What is the model number of your receiver?

Re: Maggie update

The audiosource amps have gain controls on them. It sounds like he's running the DVD player directly into the amp and then using the gains to set the volume. Maybe his receiver doesn't have pre-amp outputs.

Re: Maggie update

ah okay....

Re: Maggie update

Hello again,

Thanks for responding. Yes, I have connected my dvd player directly to the amp (like CJP suggested).

It seems that the better choice may be to use preouts from my Pioneer 912K receiver.

Leaning towards getting a sub: either a SVS PB-10 (Z rec) or a HSU VTF-2.
My main concern is music more than HT.

Thanks,
Gasdoc

Re: Maggie update

I think the problem I see (potentially) with running a DVD player directly into the amp depends on the audio settings of the DVD player. Even though it will recognize a CD as beign 2-channel stereo, I know that my Denon 2900 has an option for bass management even for 2-channel material. Since you're running an analog connection to the amp, the player will do the processing. You may want to double check the settings on the dvd player (assuming you have it hooked up to a tv) to make sure your player doens't think you have a subwoofer hooked up, or it COULD be cutting off yoru bass at 80hz.

As for the subs, I'd go for the PB-10 myself, but the Hsu model you mentioned woiuld save you some money and is a good performer from what I knwo about it.

Re: Maggie update

Both those subs are going to be fantastic options.

Re: Maggie update

Hello Friends,
Yes, the Pioneer DVD player has bass management and had the "subwoofer YES" turned on. I didn't think it would come into 'play' as only the L/R analogs were being connected directly to the AMP, but they must be.

I hooked up the optical out to my Pioneer receiver, then the preouts to the AMP. Subwoofer off in the DVD player. All speakers set to LARGE everywhere. Subwoofer "NO" on the main receiver. The sound from the MMGs solo has a lot more bass on them and is adequate for much music but not all.

From online reviews it appears both my choices for a sub are decent, but many claim that the HSU is more musical while the SVS is more capable for HT with LFEs.

Still debating. But I think I may go with Z's recom. as he has the SVS with the MMGs and and is quite satisfied. How would you rate the integration? Do you lose some of the maggie magic with the PB10/MMG combo?

May pull the plug soon (VISA),
Gasdoc Imu

Re: Maggie update

The SVS PB10 does not have speakers line level out. That means I would have to use the sub preout from my receiver.

Some suggest that the best way to hook up a sub is to get speakers L/R out to the sub and from the sub out to the speakers (and then setting your crossover on the sub itself). Talk about a run on sentence.

Am I making any sense?? What do you guys think? Sub out or use use line level connections to get best integration?

This would force me towards Hsu.

Gasdoc Imu

Re: Maggie update

I'm a little confused by your last two posts so I will offer some suggestions and you can just say "that's what I said" if I'm repeating you.

1) I think the bass management in the DVD player only applies if you are using the analog ouputs. If you are using the digital outputs, you need to use the bass management in the receiver.

2) Taking #1 into account, you need to choose how you are going to hook this all up. I personally would run a digital connection to your receiver and setup the bass management there unless you own a very high end DVD player that has good DACs.

3) If you decide to do #2 then you will want to go into your receiver and set your main speakers to small and sub to yes. This will crossover your speakers and subwoofer within the receiver. Then run preamp outs from the receiver to the Audiosource amp and hook the speakers up to it. Run the subwoofer out to the sub (line level, not speaker level). At this point that signal is already crossed over (low-pass) so you can either disable the crossover on the sub (sometimes there is a switch) or set it to the highest setting.

Make sense?