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Maggie update - Page 47

post #1381 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Here's some of what I did, not quite finished as I still have some 703/705 left.

Here are the back corners with corners trapped and first-reflection covered:





And above the front stage trapped with the ceiling reflection covered:

post #1382 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Nice!
post #1383 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

I threw pretty much everything at the Maggies last night.

Simon & Garfunkel
Metallica
Collective Soul
Bela Fleck
Boys II Men
Dave Matthews
Spin Doctors
AC/DC
Steve Miller Band
Coleman Hawkins
Cowboy Junkies
Blues Traveler

These recordings ranged from arguably audiophile quality (Cowboy Junkies) to compressed pop, to older, noisy recordings and everything in between. All of it sounded really good and would lead me to comment that the speakers aren't really limited to a handful of genres.
post #1384 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Hello Friends,
I will write a review of my MMG experience soon, but suffice it to say, Life Is Good Again
Gasdoc Imu
post #1385 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Glad you guys are having fun with your new toys Just wait til they break in a bit!
post #1386 of 1614
Thread Starter 

Re: Maggie update

Congrats guys on receiving your new toys.

Once they break in(60 hours or so),there are lots of things to play with.
Toe in(2 degrees can make a huge difference in their sound),tweeters in or out,and raising them up and into a vertical position.
Experimenting with Maggies is a very fun part of the journey
post #1387 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

I've got about 50-60 hours on mine right now. The difference between 24 and 48 was large IMO with vocals being much less recessed after the second day.
post #1388 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles J P
I've got about 50-60 hours on mine right now. The difference between 24 and 48 was large IMO with vocals being much less recessed after the second day.

Yep, that sounds familiar! As those panels loosen up a bit, the music really starts to become involving. By the way, looks like your taste in music is similar to mine....we're both pretty much all over the map in terms of what we listen to, lol.
post #1389 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Okay here is my MMG experience. Please bear with me as I get philosophical.

Imagine 20 years ago I bought a pair of sunglasses from a gas station. I arrive home and forget I still have these on. Upon entering inside things are somewhat different--colors are not vibrant and overall things look bleak. I turn on all the lights. Things improve a little. I eventually go to sleep and when I wake I am depressed. I remember life having more vibrancy.

I do a search and find there are many like me out there. We all can't see things the way we could. We open photo albums and our treasured pictures don't look the same. We discuss this at length. Somebody says he bought some cheap flashlight and his vision improved to a certain extent. Others say they got these British made powerfull lamps that really helped. Many say their flashlight and lamps are better. A whole industry begins. With my budget I buy the best lamp/flashlight combo I can afford and convince myself that these are helping--maybe they are and maybe they are not. Either way one day I will get a real job and be able to afford the "best high powered light out there"

At some level I know its not the lack of enough light but something more fundamental, but everywhere I look I am told by experts I gotta spend more to get more.

Then a prophet arrives.

He says " I can make you see better"

"Another flashlight? How much it gonna cost?" I ask.

"About $550"

"Will I be able see like God intended?"

"Just better. How much better is up to your previous experience"

"Ok, lets do it" He reaches towards my face and pulls my sunglasses off.

I look around. I smile. I laugh. I cry. I yell "those lying bastards". And I go on with my life.

I received my MMGs on Haloween but set them up the next day. I attached the stands the wrong way and the speakers were leaning back like crazy. My wife helped point out the error. God help me--send me another prophet.
I ran 16g cheap speaker wires to these and attached to my cheap RCA receiver (It claims 100W X 5.1 at 8ohms). I look at the receiver manual and nowhere does it say anything about 4 ohm speakers. Magnepan scares the hell out of me---You will destroy your receiver. But first blue smoke will come out and your whole family will be possesed and they will sacrifice you!!

So I ask my wife to leave the basement. I pop in a heavy bass CD into my Pioneer DV 578 universal DVD player. I choose "80's Funk" because I know in my heart I am about to get dissapointed. Maybe I do need the expensive flashlight.

I press Play and up the volume very slowly. No blue smoke, no fried receiver, no exorcism needed. And there is sound coming out of the speakers. I turn up the volume up some more, check to see if the receiver is boiling. I turn off the basement heater just to help my receiver if things are about to get hot. In the meantime I turn down the Bass level on my receiver and up the Treble as the MMGs are putting out plenty of bass. Wait!! they must have sent me used speakers that are already broken in. There is plenty of bass.

I sit in my listening chair and feel brave enough to turn up the volume some more. All of you know what I heard. So I am not going to say much about that. Okay, I will.

I didn't hear God. I heard angels everwhere. Not just in the front where the speakers are, but everwhere. I started popping in CDs at a furious pace--liked a crazed slot machine player in Vegas. In --one song--out---another one song--out.

I ran upstairs to get my wife. The whole family is sleeping and I can't hear my music upstairs. Wait a minute!!! Did my running create static that killed my receiver or God forbid my speakers. Or is there finally blue smoke coming out of my RCA?? I go back downstairs and the music is still playing loud enough for me to enjoy and yet I can hardly hear it upstairs. With my other speakers (Athena ASF2, Bose Acoustimas 15, Polk 30, etc) I would have to turn up the volume like crazy just to get minimal enjoyment knowing that some member of the GASDOC family will be coming down asking me to turn it down. Not with the MMGs---I had very satisfying volume and sound and the whole house was not vibrating. My wife would complain of nausea in the past when I would listen to my music. The MMGs are a cure.

I heard layers upon layers in my music. No way that was there in that song all along. There has to be some magic. Is this a remix that I am listening to??

I get up and set the pool table, get my favorite cue stick and start playing like I used to in the 80's at cheap disco places. I go around shaking my head in disbelief. The music changes as I go from shot to shot but its all good. There is a sweet spot with these as with all speakers, but you get fantastic music from everywhere. Remember, I said angels everywhere!!

I put on a Ghazal CD (Indian song poetry) which utilizes harmonium and tablas (Indian 2 set of drums) quite extensively. I used to go to music parties where there would be live performance at some person's house. These speakers come very close to the sound I remember from live performances. (To fellow Indians: Get MMGs, put on Jagjit and Chitra and enjoy).

I have finally decided: the greatest enemy of music is cheap, poorly performing subwoofer. If you are not enjoying your music though whatever speakers you are using turn off your sub and retrain your ears. Yes, you will loose something, but you will gain a lot more. With the MMGs you get it all: fantastic tight bass, awesome midrange, and angelic highs. And your hearing is preserved as your music doesn't have to be loud at all to be satisfying. Your pool game improves ( or if it doesn't you don't care). You keep smiling despite missing easy shots. Your receivers will work just fine. The stands that come with the MMGs work just fine.

Its like taking off your cheap sunglasses while indoors.

Gasdoc
post #1390 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Okay, I noticed I hooked up the speakers with the "tweeters" on the outside while Magnepan recommends the opposite. I am happy with the way things are, but should I at least try the correct positioning?? What would I notice if I did that?? More angels??

I notice that sometimes the first note or two of a new song doesn't get put out. What's up with that?? Is there a power threshold that the Magggies need (I won't call them MMGs unless comparing with other Magnepan models).

I won't be getting a sub anytime soon. But I think an amp is a possibility just to satisfy my curiousity. I am so thrilled that my expectations were not only met but exceeded with these Maggies. When they had first arrived I had told me wife to save the box because I might be returning them. Now I think I will save the box just for a possible upgrade!!

gasdoc Imu
post #1391 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

LOL....that's a great post, Imu I'm glad you mentioned how quiet they are in other rooms, cause that's a point I always forget to mention. Maggies are known for being great apartment speakers cause, as you've pointed out, you can turn them up a fair bit and not disturb those in adjacent rooms or floors.

You know what may blow your mind? They will get better!

Though I am not Indian myself, I would LOVE to hear some of the music you mentioned. That sounds like it's right up my alley!

Not sure what to say about the first few notes not being produced....I can only guess that it's on the receiver's end since the speakers are entirely passive and can only reproduce what is sent to them. I don't know of any reason why they'd produce some sort of delay (?)

Once you decide whether you are going to keep the MMGs or jump into bigger Maggies, be sure to at least consider some Mye stands (www.myesound.com)....they'll take them to an even higher level (If you get them for the MMGs, be sure to get the model that has the side struts....tht's where the real benefit of the Mye stands comes from)

I'm really glad that you're enjoying them so much!
post #1392 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Try some "Dead Can Dance" CD's on the maggies.......talk about layers!!
post #1393 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

I noticed the same thing about it not being as loud upstairs etc. I think the major reason is that dipole speakers create a null ad the sides, top and bottom. This especially explains why they are so much quieter upstairs.

Glad you are also enjoying them. I've had mine running with FM radio overnight and while I'm at work since Tuesday. I don't know if I'd recommend that with a receiver that is questionable powering them but break-in will occur.
post #1394 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Great write-up, Gasdoc!

Quote:
I noticed the same thing about it not being as loud upstairs etc. I think the major reason is that dipole speakers create a null ad the sides, top and bottom. This especially explains why they are so much quieter upstairs.
I think this dipole null is why they excite the room less, and sound so "tight" on the percussion instruments mentioned above.
post #1395 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Jack, that may very well be true.
post #1396 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Someday, I might understand most of Linkwitz' site, and I can tell you for sure.
post #1397 of 1614
Thread Starter 

Re: Maggie update

Congrats and glad you two are happy with your Maggies.As "Z" said,they get even better as time goes on.

if you can find it,try an old "blood sweat and tears" cd.Rock mixed with jazz.horns,flutes,piano,drums and vocals.It will make your Maggies disappear.
post #1398 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Hi to all you Maggie users,
I have read all your pages here (every one), and have a couple of questions for those willing to respond. Also, I will try to describe what I feel I have been missing (or lacking), in my H/T Music setup and hopefully your overabundance of wisdom and experience will enlighten and guide me.
I was smitten by an H/T system that I haven't been able to duplicate through numerous components and systems, including extreme high power and different processors. Now before you ask why I haven't just purchased the one I enjoyed so much, the Martin Logan Summits, and the M/L center channel are fairly pricey,(I think the rear speakers were the Aeon?).Especially with the Krell driving them. Even if I could afford the speakers, they really necessitate good clearance behind them, or they sound kind of hollow. The four feet off the wall I can't do.
What I experienced was a very realistic involving sound that seemed to immerse me (or anyone viewing), into the action. The sound seemed to be around me like a real life situation with the dialogue tied to the screen and first reflections were distant instead of appearing as if they were tied to the speaker. A little hard to describe to someone that wasn't there listening. The amazing part was when we would switch to a fairly expensive set of Infinity speakers also driven by the Krell. The wide soundstage and invisible speakers would shrink to precise location of all the cone drivers located in the speakers. This would totally leave the movie lifeless and non-involving. Before someone asks about spl balancing,positioning, etc., that wasn't it. I have wondered how much of this involved the fantastic M/L center speaker and if this could have been achieved with a phantom center.
One of the "cons" you read about Maggies is the lack of dynamics in H/T. I know the M/L's are hybrid with a cone woofer but I don't think dynamics is what I heard. I have had all the dynamics one could muster with two Citation 7.1 amps bridged into 4 ohm speakers. This was estimated at 900 watts a channel. I had the Aragon 8008x5 and Klipsch towers. I have two Avalanche 15's with a bridged EP2500 and the Marchand Bassis that will make it flat to 14hz. I live by a Regional Airport and a demo of Pearl Harbor at my Xmas party brought the Cops real quick. The noise had awoken a neighbor on the street behind and his windows were rattling, he had thought a plane crashed. When the Cop told me his patrol car windows were vibrating when he turned onto my street, I told him that was the War of the Worlds demo and, COOL! Even with that I can't seem to get the immersive involvement of the M/L demo.
Ok, before you send me to the M/L forum I was wondering where the Maggies fit in here. I have listened to the 1.6's but it was brief and the music was not my choice. They were being driven by Rotel gear and sounded good though. I was considering MMG's all around and the CC3 or perhaps the 1.6 up front and use phantom for center. I don't want to lose anything in the front though. I am one of those people that always ask,"what did they say"? I don't really want to use a sub for Music listening either. I think I read the low 'E' string on a Bass guitar is 39hz. If that isn't realistic with the 1.6 in room, maybe the MMG and a small sealed sub will do okay. Worried about that blending well though. Has anyone tried to hybrid the smaller panels with a sub like the M/L?
Any thoughts? Thanks for reading!
andy
post #1399 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Hi Andy:

You really read every page??? Wow! lol

With regard to dynamics, I read several reviews a while back where reviewers discussed how Magnepan has closed the gap with cone speakers over the years. Have they done so to the point where you can't say cones have the advantage anymore? Nah, probably not. But if having yoru butt kicked by your HT is not your first priority, then I think most people who add a subwoofer to them will be plenty satisfied with what they can do. The keys to dynamics with Maggies are 1) lots of clean current from an amp that is rated into 2 ohms, 2) integration of a subwoofer, and 3) use of Mye stands.

It's funny, cause the first and only time I heard an ML demo, it was with Pearl Harbor. It was Aeons all around, as best I can remember, with a ML center speaker and two of their subs. It was detailed as all hell, but it damn near made my ears bleed, lol. I don't know if they just weren't broken in or what, but I can't say I was really interested in hearing any more. ML has a lot of satisfied customers, they just weren't for me. I know what you mean about the immersive experience, though. I credit the Maggies for helping me to discover that about my listening preferences, actually. I became addicted to the way they brought movies to life.

Hopefully 'P' will chime in about the sub, cause I think he's still using the ML sub with his 3.6s and is very happy
post #1400 of 1614
Thread Starter 

Re: Maggie update

"I have read all your pages here (every one)"

You sir,are a braver man then I(and I've written my fair share of this thread).

I've heard an ML movie demo ,and was impressed.Not enough to purchase,but I can see the allure.
Maggies,do some things very very well.Others less so,and others still ,not so well.
The dipole rear sound wave(that gives the ML's,that alive sound factor),is equally,there in Maggies,hence the placement issue.
The high freq.'s in Maggies is very clear and precise.Its also different from ML's.Just as precise but with a different tone to it (hard to describe).

Mid range punch? Powered properly,Maggies have that punch,not to the degree a cone speaker does.That ,IMO is the major difference in cone vs planar speakers.

Bass ? I'll agree with Z.Maggies have quality bass,but for some music and most assuredly for HT,a sub is required.Talk to P about the ML line of subs.

You mentioned placement of the ML's.Maggies have some of the same issues.As an example,my Fronts are about 3 feet from the wall when in HT use.For music I drag them out 5 or 6 feet from the wall.

One of the "not so well" Maggie issue's is sweet spot.It is larger then Maggie detractors will lead you to believe.but it is smaller then a typical cone speaker.Using a curved Maggie center does help to widen it,but it is something to keep in mind.

For HT use,Maggies will bring an HT alive.Its a feeling I've never been able to achieve with a cone type speaker.
ML's and Maggies are in the same family,although distant cousins would be a better analogy.
post #1401 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

I really wish everyone here could hear maggies blended with an infinite baffle sub. It is so seamless it is scary.
post #1402 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Party at Chuck's!
post #1403 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanZ
Hopefully 'P' will chime in about the sub, cause I think he's still using the ML sub with his 3.6s and is very happy

I have 2 systems, and 2 quality subs:
6.1 HT system = SVS PC-Ultra
2 channel system = ML Depth

I have never tried the Depth upstairs in the HT system or the Ultra downstairs in the 2 channel system. I once had an all maggies 5.1 HT system in my old house. And for a while I had both the PC-Ultra and a Paradigm PW-2200. I can tell you this, the Ultra worked better for movies and the PW-2200 worked better for music in my old house.

Both the ML Depth and Descent subs are highly musical subs and have been on "Stereophile" best components list over the last several years. They blend quite well with both 1.6 and 3.6 maggies. Another sub many maggie users claim blend well are the Rel line of subs. I hope this helps.
post #1404 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Am I the only one concerned that we've not heard from Dean in ages?
post #1405 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey
Party at Chuck's!
I've got a kegerator too! Come on over!
post #1406 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Hello Friends,

Still enjoying my new Maggies (MMGs) like crazy!!! The resolution on 2 channel music is fantastic. Moved my speakers the correct way--with the "tweeters" in and can't really say there is much difference either way. Its still as I remember it. I will leave it this 'correct' way for now.

One of my favorite DVD music is The Eagles Farewell Tour, Live In Melbourn, Australia concert. The video is excellent as it was shot in High Def with a 16:9 aspect and fits my DIY screen perfectly. The DTS 5.1 music is really the best surround music I have ever heard. Even my Bose Acoustimas would bring tremendous pleasure. I watched and listened to this DVD in 2 channel DTS using my MMGs, and frankly I think I would need a subwoofer and Magnepans all around. So for HT I would recommend as others to go with planars all around and a subwoofer appears to be a must. Otherwise, stick with what already makes you happy.

I think Z had said he would like to listen to Indian Ghazals. Send me an e-mail at imu1@msn.com and let's see what I can do.

On my MMGs Sade, Diana Krall and Andrea 'Bolicheli' (sp?) sound excellent even in downloaded MP3 192kbs format. I am not ready to buy these discs yet as I am still looking for an amp to drive the maggies.

Are Audio Source amps any good? Here I go again looking for cheap solutions. JR has the Audio Source 300 AMP refurb at $200 plus s$h. Best Buy online also has them for a much higher price. Circuit City online is asking almost triple for the AMP200. Do any of you have any experience with this brand?? How about the Outlaw 2 channel amp RR2215 for about $600? or the NAD 320 BEE?

Or should I just stick with my RCA receiver that is working just fine for now?? Maybe, I should now invest in a quality sub (I will not buy a cheapo sub, I will not buy a cheapo sub, I will not buy a cheapo sub.....)?? How about a Sony $100 sub---just Kidding, guys.

The MUG forum has some nice DIY wood stands projects for maggies. Has anybody tried these or best to spend the $$ with MYE??

I am currently listening to a spanish guitar CD with my MMG/RCA combo. Life is good.

GASDOC Imu
post #1407 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

below is the link to JR for the audio source 300 AMP.

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.proc....ASO+AMP300-RB

I can afford it yet I go cheap. Why Lord?? Why??

Are the benefits of a quality amp just (small) incremental or are they trully substantial. The MMGs were an excellent value. Would spending about $5-600 double the pleasure?? Will I see better??

Gasdoc
post #1408 of 1614
Thread Starter 

Re: Maggie update

As to the self made wood stands.If you look in the first 3 or 4 pages of this thread,you'll see pictures of the wood stands I made.Almost the same as the stands on the MUG site,but a little larger and more movable.

As for the amps.I run my 3.6's on a crown xls 402b amp.I've done the fan mod(which took all of 15 minutes).400 WPC @ 4 ohms,and it neither adds nor detracts from the Maggies sound.It amplifies sound,exactly what an amp is supposed to do .
post #1409 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Imu:

I'll definitely shoot an email off to ya....I'd love to hear more about this music I'm actually a big fan of Indian culture. I can't say I have a lot of workign knowledge of it, but I did spend some time studying Hinduism in school and always found it fascinating. I also happen to find Indian women very attractive

As for stands, there are two things you can do with the MMGs: You can get them up off the ground a little bit and more vertical, you can stabilize the panel, or you can do both. Actually I guess that's technically three things, but you know what I mean. If I were you, I'd at least do something like what 'M' did....you should notice a bit of an improvement that way. If you go with Mye stands, I'd only recommend them if you get the model with the side struts. That's where the Mye stands value comes in. Otherwise save your money and go 'M' style

With regard to amps, if you come across something that has some juice and is stable into 4 ohms, I say go for it. I honestly wouldn't stick with your receiver for any longer than necessary, lol. To answer your question, will a good amp double the pleasure of the MMGs? Nah....not a chance. But you will notice a difference, that I can assure you. It's also a little safer to give them a proper amp with a bit of headroom....I think if you head over to the asylum, you'll find people who have ruined their receivers trying to power their Maggies (or some other demanding speaker). I still recommend a B&K st-140 in a situation where someone is trying to work within a tight budget. I think it would be very hard to find a better way to spend $200 for a pair of MMGs
post #1410 of 1614

Re: Maggie update

Quote:
Originally Posted by gasdoc
below is the link to JR for the audio source 300 AMP.

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.proc....ASO+AMP300-RB

I can afford it yet I go cheap. Why Lord?? Why??

Are the benefits of a quality amp just (small) incremental or are they trully substantial. The MMGs were an excellent value. Would spending about $5-600 double the pleasure?? Will I see better??

Gasdoc
I use an Audio Source (same model I believe) to power my Eminent Technologies LFT-8a's through a HK 525. I'm very satisfied. But then again I'm one of those heretics who believes watts is watts and baring audible distortion, I'm not going to notice the difference between a $300 source of power and $3,000 one. Your mileage may vary.

Edit to add - If I feel the need for more power, I'll go with one of the pro amp.
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