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1933 King Kong in November - Page 2

post #31 of 542
3/3/05 at 3:52pm
A lot of the voodoo is just common sense (taking advantage of a remake) and whatever else pops up in a marketing meeting. ("What a great idea from the intern!") All filtered through, of course, an executive in charge that is usually just barely running things by the seat of his pants.

However, unless you're privy to inside information that might not be the case in this particular situation. My main point is that all of us are expressing an opinion about whether Warner made the correct decision or not to release "King Kong" this coming Fall. The truth of the matter is that we don't really know what factors influenced Warner's decision-making process. Was there other problems we are unaware of regarding the restoration process or the gathering of bonus material they wanted for this dvd release? Is it all about marketing this release so close to the remake in order to increase dvd sales? I don't know the answers to those questions and I question if any of us do, except those close enough to the situation that probably read our forum without responding in anyway.






Crawdaddy
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post #32 of 542
3/3/05 at 3:54pm
Very well expressed, Robert. Thank You.
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post #33 of 542
3/3/05 at 3:55pm
Sometimes people here forget that DVD fans with our level of knowledge and interest are WAY in the minority...

Many don't even know that a new version of "King Kong" is coming out.
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post #34 of 542
3/3/05 at 4:09pm
persistent disclaimer:
once again, this is not about Warner specifically, but the practice in general.





Quote:
The difference is that the fact it's a new release will get it in a different part of the store. It won't be stuck on the back shelves - it'll be at the front, and it'll get lots of publicity from various sources.

Colin, i just don't see this as an either/or propostion.

the impression i get from these sentiments is that the studio suits are sitting around, scratching their heads like monkeys thinking
"well, if we released it 2 years ago, how could we possibly exploit it since it isn't brand new now? we are going to miss this once in a lifetime golden opportunity!"
"nope can't do that"
"oh, Lord no!"
"no that just won't do"
"what you are suggesting is just too fantastic to consider the implications of"
"i agree...its absurd"
"yes, positively supernatural"
"just put that kind of thinking out of your mind right now"


i'll repeat what i wrote earlier
Quote:
slap a NEW sticker on the shrinkwrap (exploiting the current hype),
make some colorful, attention getting, p.o.p (point of purchase) standees for the Best Buys and Circuit Citys,
take an ad out in People (or better yet, Time),
and maybe offer some promotional pricing incentives

to sum up my beliefs- i know of no heavenly commandment that decrees you cannot cross promote material that has already been released to people who have been unaware of it or uninterested in it before.


i'm not getting rankled about the Kong sit.
this is common practice with many titles i would love to have and have no where near the same supplemental, or print/transfer concerns.
its an industry wide defacto practice that i find wholly brain frozen.
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post #35 of 542
3/3/05 at 4:52pm
Again, I wholly agree with Paul Scott on this. I realize the studios want to make as much money as possible, and releasing titles to coincide with various events, such as remakes and holidays, etc. is a way to do it. But are they really getting that much more revenue? This isn't about just King Kong, but let's keep using this example. A person who isn't interested in the 1933 version of King Kong, a person who doesn't like "old movies" - would such a person buy the 1933 King Kong just because it was released in time to take advantage of the 2005 version. I don't think so.

Also, I agree with this:

Quote:
what would preclude the disc being a Christmas gift purchase if it were released now?


Again I fail to understand this logic the studios have. You rarely see a Christmas-themed film come out as is usual with theater-to-DVD window, in the summer. The only exception I can think of off the top of my head is Bad Santa (but that isn't a very good example, is it?). So now I, a Robert Zemeckis fan, have to wait a year to see The Polar Express again in the comfort of my home, whereas if it were a non-holiday film, we would probably have an announcement for it by now for May or so.
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post #36 of 542
3/3/05 at 6:43pm
KONG!!! The Eighth Wonder of the World!

I can't wait to get my hands on this title. It was the first or second movie I purchased on VHS back in 1985. Never did get the LD. But I can't believe it will have taken over 8 years since the release of the DVD format for this classic to show up.

BTW, has anyone watched Kong video diaries over at www.KongIsKing.net ? This remake is going to make up for the 76 travesty. It will never equal the original but it will hopefully be very close.
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post #37 of 542
3/3/05 at 7:27pm
All the arguments for NOT waiting to release titles have their logic - no question about it. We got the same discussions back in Ye Olden Dayes when Spielberg proclaimed he wouldn't put out his movies on DVD until there was a substantial base of players.

I stand by my earlier statement: if folks whose livings depend on making as much money as possible consistently market DVDs this way, it seems highly likely that it IS the most profitable method. These people would cripple their mothers to squeeze the last nickel out of a Girl Scout - you think this is some sort of capricious decision?
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post #38 of 542
3/3/05 at 7:49pm
"These people would cripple their mothers to squeeze the last nickel out of a Girl Scout"

I'd laugh at that if it weren't so true
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post #39 of 542
3/3/05 at 9:33pm
Quote:
but for the most part the 1933 version will sell itself on its own merit
EXACTLY!!!!!!

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post #40 of 542
3/4/05 at 7:06am
Quote:
BTW, has anyone watched Kong video diaries over at www.KongIsKing.net ? This remake is going to make up for the 76 travesty.


I actually like the 76 remake that u call a travesty. The special effetcs are not bad for the time, and I thought the musical score by John Barry was excellent. I have the Paramount R1 relase and the French 2 disc DTS version with deleted scenes.
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post #41 of 542
3/4/05 at 7:09am
A lot of these cross-promotion things don't make much sense to me---the classic Universal horrors and Van Helsing, for instance. But the King Kong one does; Universal is going to spend a bundle on advertising King Kong. Why should Warner spend its own money raising awareness of the King Kong name and allow Uni to piggyback on it. Better to let Universal spend the money and ride along on that---while fans of the original will buy it regardless there will be some who've never seen it who a) will be made curious by Universal's hype machine and b) that faction that says about the remake, That sucked, was the original a better movie? It's win-win for Warner.
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post #42 of 542
3/4/05 at 7:35am
That R1 SE of the 1976 King Kong would be welcome as well, by the way
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post #43 of 542
3/4/05 at 8:00am
I bet that most, not all, but most people under 25 have never heard of or seen the 1933 King Kong. Why do i say that? I work with a number of young 20ish men and women and am always amazed at how much they don't know about pop culture. They dont like black and white movies or TV shows. If it wasn't made 2 weeks ago, or isn't on MTV or E! they wont waste their time. The movies i like, older si fi and horror, are campy, fake, and boring to MOST, but not all of the young people i know. But they do like my 70s music.
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post #44 of 542
3/4/05 at 8:16am
I have been eagerly anticipating the release of King Kong since it was announced several years ago. It is, without question, one of my favorite films of all time.

That being said, I am not going to bash WHV for taking so long to release this title. From what I have been reading in other threads here and elsewhere, the delay was not brought about in an attempt to cash in on Peter Jackson's remake. It came about, first of all, because the restoration process has taken much longer than they anticipated. Now really, who is going to complain about that? I do not mind waiting a little while for a cleaner print...I will continue to enjoy my 60th Anniversary VHS box set until then.

As for the extra features that have been rumored, I would love to see a feature-length commentary featuring the likes of Jackson, Harryhausen, Ackerman and Bradbury. I would also like to see the documentary contained in the VHS box set, as well. Based on the rumors floating around, it sounds like the extras are going to be excellent.

Regarding The Son of Kong, I doubt very seriously that WHV will include it in this 2-disc set. They'll probably wait and include it in a box set timed to come out at the same time as Jackson's remake on DVD. Hopefully, someone will ask about this at the upcoming chat with WHV.

I also hope that Paramount is working on a SE of the 1976 remake. Their bare bones R1 release could use an upgrade. Deleted scenes, commentary tracks, featurettes and trailers would be nice.
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post #45 of 542
3/4/05 at 9:31am
Quote:
I bet that most, not all, but most people under 25 have never heard of or seen the 1933 King Kong. Why do i say that? I work with a number of young 20ish men and women and am always amazed at how much they don't know about pop culture.

I think King Kong is among classics that are still extremely popular with today's audience... like Casablanca, Gone with the Wind, and The Wizard of Oz.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but even if people haven't seen the film, they would immediately know what King Kong is.
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post #46 of 542
3/4/05 at 9:49am
Quote:
I bet that most, not all, but most people under 25 have never heard of or seen the 1933 King Kong.


Phew, I just narrowly escaped the criteria. I turned 25 this January.
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post #47 of 542
3/4/05 at 10:55am
Looking forward to november

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post #48 of 542
3/4/05 at 11:41am
Quote:
I bet that most, not all, but most people under 25 have never heard of or seen the 1933 King Kong. Why do i say that? I work with a number of young 20ish men and women and am always amazed at how much they don't know about pop culture. They dont like black and white movies or TV shows. If it wasn't made 2 weeks ago, or isn't on MTV or E! they wont waste their time. The movies i like, older si fi and horror, are campy, fake, and boring to MOST, but not all of the young people i know. But they do like my 70s music.
This post is full of contradictions and the initial assertion is quite wrong.

--
H
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post #49 of 542
3/4/05 at 12:16pm
I agree with Ron.

My thought about coinciding a DVD release with a theatrical (albiet remake) version is as follows:

Most consumers do not follow "New DVD releases" like we do at HTF. They just see it on the shelf and buy spontaneously. The King Kong theatrical release will be widely promoted putting King Kong "on the radar" of the public's mind in general. This will prompt lots of non-enthusiast consumers to go "hey, I always liked the original B&W movie...I wonder if that's out on DVD?"

It's a way of marketing the DVD to an audience that ordinarly couldn't be targeted with "DVD" marketing directly...using the theatrical release of the new movie to put the thought of the original film in the minds of average consumers who would normally spend their day-day lives without every thinking about "King Kong" let alone wondering if it's out on DVD; Basically "wetting their appetite" for the original movie by assocation.

heck, sometimes it even works with enthusiast DVD collectors. I remember when the Importance of Being Ernest came out in the theater...the new remake version...I started thinking about the original movie and how much I loved that classic and went and ordered the Criterion DVD. Probably would still me on my "wish list" except for the fact that the theatrical release got me thinking about the film and wetted my appetite for the classic I know and love.
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post #50 of 542
3/4/05 at 12:23pm
Cool, but what does that have to do with releasing the movie now versus November?

Quote:
Most consumers do not follow "New DVD releases" like we do at HTF. They just see it on the shelf and buy spontaneously. The King Kong theatrical release will be widely promoted putting King Kong "on the radar" of the public's mind in general. This will prompt lots of non-enthusiast consumers to go "hey, I always liked the original B&W movie...I wonder if that's out on DVD?"
...and when they proceed to the store to buy it, or next time they happen to be at Walmart and remember the movie, do you think they care one whit about whether it's been on the shelves for 2 weeks vs 10 months?

That's the one question no one has been able to address so far.

I am sure studios have a good reason for doing this, it's just not very obvious to me. It looks like it makes sense (releasing the flick in Nov) from a marketting POV, until you start really thinking about it.

[EDIT] The only factor I can see is this visibility that new DVD's have in their first couple of weeks of release, prime shelf space, special rack etc... making it easier for J6P to find it when his interest is peaked by the barrage of advertisement for the new movie comes November.

Something else just occured to me, it could also be that they're hoping that the DVD release helps the theatrical release. In that case, the timing is more understandable, though from where I stand, I doubt that will add anything to the massive marketting campaign we're likely to be subject to by the holiday season.

--
H
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post #51 of 542
3/4/05 at 12:59pm
H,

one reason for the "wait" might be that many stores gear-up and stock lots of discs of a given title during initial release...but then only back down and keep a few copies on hand...

By waiting until the theatrical release for the DVD debut, the studio ensures that the most copies will be on-hand at the B&M stores for people to pick up spontanously as there will be plenty of discs stocked on the "new release" end-caps. If they release too early...the B&M stores will run out after the first few folks take their copies to the register.

Just a thought.

[EDIT]

just saw your own edits. Yeah...exactly.
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post #52 of 542
3/4/05 at 1:37pm
Quote:
...and when they proceed to the store to buy it, or next time they happen to be at Walmart and remember the movie, do you think they care one whit about whether it's been on the shelves for 2 weeks vs 10 months?

No, but after 10 months many stores will
put Kong on its back shelves instead of its
front because it is no longer a new release.

The studios have a better chance of front-shelve
exposure if the title is a new release.

Also, remember that releasing anything during
Christmas season generates better sales.

That should better answer the question that
was asked.

.....and really, I can't believe the complaining
going on within this thread. Warner has put a lot
of effort into the restoration of this film -- so
much so that they had to delay it till this year.
Let's be thankful they are doing it right.

There's a lot of odd debating going on here against
people that get paid to market films and generally
know what they are doing.

Why are we harrassing the studio over this?
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post #53 of 542
3/4/05 at 1:52pm
Amen, Ron!
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post #54 of 542
3/4/05 at 2:25pm
Quote:
I think King Kong is among classics that are still extremely popular with today's audience... like Casablanca, Gone with the Wind, and The Wizard of Oz.


Patrick, just look at Star Wars fans v 2.0 (born post '75).
these people(in general) rail against how fake looking the original model effects were and wouldn't be unhappy to see more of the original footage replaced with cgi.
i think you are seriously over estimating the 'primary demographics' here, which are who these studios are trying to snag with these calculated tie-in releases.

and this isn't 'harrassment' Ron to say that, logic and experience tell me that rather than increasing their net sales on this title, they are instead looking at a much smaller window where this title will be 'viable'.
the XXX/MTV/Nascaar demographic ain't gonna get excited to watch no 1.33 B&W, with herky jerky stop motion and a very dated style of acting, on their kicking 16:9 plasma and 5.1 system.
there are film buffs who will always love and treasure KK('33), but for the overwehlming majority of Best Buy and CC shoppers, once the Jackson remake hits the shelves, forget about it.
in fact, i wouldn't be surprised to witness more than a few Einsteins picking up the box excitedly , and then putting it back down once they look at the back and realize its the 'old one'.


Quote:
That R1 SE of the 1976 King Kong would be welcome as well, by the way


i'd love to see this as well.
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post #55 of 542
3/4/05 at 2:39pm
To step away from King Kong in this discussion, how about Disney's Babmbi release. It sold a buttload of copies the first day it was out. Yet there's no Bambi 2 in theaters right now. And people still bought tons of copies. So that's that for that logic (lots of thats )

Quote:
Why are we harrassing the studio over this?


We aren't, Ron. Just good ol' discussion going on. And just so happens we're using WB's King Kong as an example. For the record, I think WB is only second to Criterion in terms of quality of their releases, and I'm very happy they're bringing out King Kong in a 2-disc SE. I would love to have it now, but don't mind waiting - whatever the reason. It's more about a general studio practice, and they all do it, not just WB.
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post #56 of 542
3/4/05 at 4:04pm
Lordy, I sure hope they don't re-release that 1976 abomination at the same time as the '33 KONG. If even one person elects to go with the remake "because it's in color" instead of the original, that's one too many.
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post #57 of 542
3/4/05 at 4:14pm
Paramount would be very wise to release a special edition of the 1976 remake....there will never be a better time to do so than this holiday season.

If they do, it should include the deleted scenes that were part of the TV version as an extra or incorporated into an extended version. The French DVD includes these scenes in anamorphic widescreen!

Naturally I prefer the original 1933 B/W film (though I admit I've seen the colorized version!) and will be purchasing the DVD.
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post #58 of 542
3/4/05 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Something else just occured to me, it could also be that they're hoping that the DVD release helps the theatrical release. In that case, the timing is more understandable, though from where I stand, I doubt that will add anything to the massive marketting campaign we're likely to be subject to by the holiday season.
Except that the films are being released by two different studios.

One reason why Warner is doing this type of marketing is to only do it *once* in terms of newspaper/tv ads, etc. If the DVD was released now, they'd have to buy those ads now - in addition to all the money they pay retailers to get end-cap displays, etc. Then, if they wanted to re-market the film in December (as has been suggested here), they'd have to buy the ads all over again. Not a wise business move to spend twice as much to sell the same amount of copies.

I used to work for Warner Home Video in the mid-90s, they don't do a major release like this without a *ton* of marketing research. If the research shows that they will sell more copies by tying-in with an outside event (the Universal remake, in this case), they'll wait for it. They don't call it the video *business* for nothing, folks!
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post #59 of 542
3/5/05 at 4:16am
Quote:
This remake is going to make up for the 76 travesty.


IMO, the Dino De Laurentiis produced, John Guillermin directed 1976 King Kong is far from a travesty and very much unfairly maligned. As has been mentioned, it has a wonderful John Barry score, great cinematography, Oscar winning visual effects (tied with Logan's Run that year btw)and great campy performances, especially from Charles Grodin, and is great fun. And Jessica Lange didn't look too shabby either.

So lay off, you "goddamn male chauvinist pig apes"!
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post #60 of 542
3/5/05 at 5:37am
I really do love these threads, especially when based upon disinformation.

While this release is months away, and incomplete, the actual facts coming my way lead me to believe that this will be THE classic release of 2005, and well above the expectations not only of the purchasing public, but also of those of the HTF mindset.

Once again, the folks at WHV, department to department, appear to be running on all twelve cylinders.

RAH
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