Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Entertainment › TV Programming › SOPRANOS Season 6: Season Finally!!!.. Episode 12: "KAISHA"
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

SOPRANOS Season 6: Season Finally!!!.. Episode 12: "KAISHA" - Page 30

post #871 of 1093
5/17/06 at 11:56am

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Campisi
I agree completely. Wasn't the whole point of not getting revenge to demonstrate that Tony has repressed feelings and a grudge against Janice? On the one hand, you have Vito shoot a guy in the back because Vito hit his car while driving drunk. These guys shoot people for nothing. But then you have a guy who is supposed to be under Tony's protection, not to mention part of Tony's real family by marriage, get shot while on company business and Tony can't even be bothered to visit him in the hospital, let alone go after the guys who tried to kill him.

More to the point, Tony even knows from his session with Melfi that he is acting the way he is because of his feelings about Janice, but he still can't bring himself to look after Bobby. All the looks among the crew when they were talking about Bobby and Tony was saying "he shouldn't have been there" while taking the envelope of cash that Bobby still managed to hand up were interesting. This was quite the different reaction from when Christopher got shot, or when they were looking for Jackie Jr. for shooting Furio and robbing the card game. They turned over every stone. Granted, they knew who they were looking for, but here there was no mention of doing anything because of Tony's feelings about Janice. That was the point.


Nahhh, way too much thinkin' for a mob drama. Sonny Corleone would've just whacked somebody. Hell he would've whacked anybody!

BTW, I agree. I also submit it is this kind of insight that separates the "Sopranos has gone way downhill" from the "Sopranos is great this season" crowd. Not only is Tony holding it against Bobby because he blames him for being shot by Junior, he also transfers his hate (jealousy, anger, etc.) of Janice over to Bobby. Very important to this season is Tony's conversation with Melfi about how Janice does not deserve her mental condition because she left the home and Tony stayed behind in hell. "That's mine!" he said. He does not think Janice earned her nuttiness, and in this you can see that Tony still feels he deserves his condition, that it was "earned". Very deep and very telling about dysfunctional families that are not in the mob, never mind ones that are. A lot of people may have missed this because they think the scenes with Melfi are "too boring and slow down the plot".

Then again, maybe they should just whack someone every week.
Reply
post #872 of 1093
5/17/06 at 2:26pm

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Rewatching this weeks episode, it would have been very good if not for the Vito stuff.

Tonys conversation with Janice was a good one and even the 2 Melfi scenes were good IMHO. The Johnny Sack scenes were just sad.
Reply
post #873 of 1093
5/17/06 at 2:35pm

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

I liked the theme of the Vito story line -- leave "the life" and fall in love, take up writing, or working with your hands in a sleepy little town. Then, he returns to the life and on the journey he starts drinking, sleeping on the job and then killing a guy whose only crime was getting the mail. The two faces of guys in organized crime. Again, I liked that theme, but unless there is another payoff, they spent too much time on Vito in NH. It could have been done with 5 mins per week of screen time for the last few episodes to show the passage of time.
Reply
post #874 of 1093
5/18/06 at 6:27am

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Campisi
But then you have a guy who is supposed to be under Tony's protection, not to mention part of Tony's real family by marriage, get shot while on company business and Tony can't even be bothered to visit him in the hospital, let alone go after the guys who tried to kill him.
A wound like Bobby had would not have necessitated a hospital stay.
Reply
post #875 of 1093
5/18/06 at 7:37am

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

i'm assuming ya'll now what the classical forms of storytelling are:
http://www.ipl.org/div/farq/plotFARQ.html

it's HOW the artist chooses to tell his story that creates originality and not WHAT he tells. in light of that, chase is furthest from that.
Reply
post #876 of 1093
5/18/06 at 8:13am

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
Originally Posted by YiFeng
i'm assuming ya'll now what the classical forms of storytelling are:
http://www.ipl.org/div/farq/plotFARQ.html

it's HOW the artist chooses to tell his story that creates originality and not WHAT he tells. in light of that, chase is furthest from that.

In your opinion. Yet all your complaints are about "WHAT" he tells. Unfinished plotlines, loose ends, too much Vito, not enough Phil and Johnny Sac, too much Melfi, not enough whacking, etc., are all things we have heard from the detractors. I submit that if we look at the story as that of a true to life dysfunctional "family" as depicted, paralleled and contrasted by Tony's real vs. his mob family, it is classical storytelling. It's just not the story you want to watch. That does not make it bad, you just expected ice cream and got filet mignon instead. You should be dining at Baskin Robbins instead of complaining they don't have chocolate flavored beef with sprinkles at Outback Steakhouse.
Reply
post #877 of 1093
5/18/06 at 12:23pm

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

a family life in of itself is probably man vs. man and man vs. self or somn like that from the 7 basic plots. it's archetypical. stories about family have been around for ages. this is the "WHAT" of the story.

you said, "depicted, paralleled and contrasted" that's not a WHAT but a HOW he is telling the story.

i don't have to write, "i think" everytime i post somn. it's assumed, so of course it's my opinion. who else is posting as me? what i see as truth is the truth to me. i ain't forcing everyone to believe in it. that's everyone else's choice and i could care less about that.

re: unfinished plotlines, loose ends, etc. are all signs of non-classical storytelling because classical storytelling ties up the endings better because classical storytelling wants to SAY somn emphatically. the endings are almost always the hardest portions of a story in general. the point is, chase doesn't have an idea of what he's doing. that's why people who are used to classical forms of storytelling (whether they consciously, intellectual know it and ackowledge it or not) responds to a good story. it's like Star Wars, everyone loves it, a few minority love it. so it is with Sopranos, it is already a minority that watch the series (compared to network #'s), and out of that people who love classical forms love it and some people who don't like classical forms of storytelling (avante garde) love it. the further out there, the more "symbolism" people can try to read from the sopranos whether it's there not.
Reply
post #878 of 1093
5/18/06 at 12:46pm

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
storytelling ties up the endings better because classical storytelling wants to SAY somn emphatically. the endings are almost always the hardest portions of a story in general.

YiFeng, I'll give you an example of how the last episode was classic storytelling, when all of the detractors (including you) are screaming it is not. The detractors are complaining that Bobby's attackers are just another "loose end". That a "real" mob story would tell how they found them and sought revenge, but Chase just leaves it "up in the air", another "unfinished plotline". But that is not the story (classic or otherwise) that Chase wants. Bobby's attackers are just a deux ex machina for the actual story Chase wants to tell - that of Tony's relationship to Janice and his jealousy, envy and anger towards her because she doesn't "deserve" her mental illness, she didn't "earn" it. Chase didn't have Bobby get attacked to show the ruthlessness of the Mob in exacting revenge any more than he had Paulie and Christopher shoot and subsequently lose the Chechnyan hitman just so he could have him come back to haunt them later. Chase sets up plotlines to show the interaction of the family, not the outer actions of the mob. You call this "avant guard", but it is only avant guard if you are looking for a story about mob action and revenge. Those of us looking for a study in family and relationships see very well why Bobby is not avenged and why the Chechnyan stays missing, i.e. why there is not "payback": Our payback was in the talk with Janice and the look in Tony's eye when he gets the money, or the conversation between Paulie and Christopher in the freezing van. Our story did not care about the retribution of either Bobby or the hitman, because it was simply a couple of plot devices used to tell the real story. Taken this way, there is no way we can say it is not a "classic" form of story telling. It's just that some of the most interesting action scenes are really just plot devices to set up what most of the detractors consider a "waste of time" and "long and boring".
Reply
post #879 of 1093
5/18/06 at 12:54pm

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Now, is that a classical form of rebuttal or was that the literary Hound-Baskerville version ?
Reply
post #880 of 1093
5/18/06 at 1:03pm

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Sopranos is just a glorified soap opera. And I like it!
Reply
post #881 of 1093
5/18/06 at 1:32pm

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Hamm
Sopranos is just a glorified soap opera. And I like it!

That's right! Think Desperate Housewives with homely men instead of hot women and a lot more guns!

(Personally, I'm addicted to both. And sometimes I think a cross-over would be a hoot. I'd love for Bree's son to drive down to New Jersey sometime - so he can die in a firey head-on collision with A.J. Soprano. )

Regards,

Joe
Reply
post #882 of 1093
5/18/06 at 1:39pm

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex-C
Now, is that a classical form of rebuttal or was that the literary Hound-Baskerville version ?

How should I know? I'm not as ejumacated as some around here. I went to Engineering School - I wasn't taught, I was trained.
Reply
post #883 of 1093
5/18/06 at 7:06pm

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

But mostly, you are too goddamn insular .

Quote:
when you go classic, you gain more insights into characters than avante garde/experimental.
Yi Feng, I gotta say, I just LOVE how you boldly declare this sort of stuff as if it were some obvious, fundamental law of writing. And this isn't the first time you've done that. Really, just who do you think you are dealing with on these boards? .

Anyway, I enjoyed this episode better than the last one. Lots of hilarious moments. I was really scared for that gardner for a second, especially when Sil said "Can you believe this fucking guy" .

I have to agree that Vito's story is overstaying it's welcome for one very simple reason: I just do not find the character interesting in the least bit. I am willing to sit through these scenes in Six Feet Under because I actually like David and Keith. The Vito character was never appealing in any way, and his outing didn't change that. Rather, his sexual orientation was a tool used to 1- explore the reactions of the family to such an eventuality and mostly 2- gain insight into yet another aspect of Tony's psyche, which at the end of the day, is really the point of this show. Consequently, when disengaged from these two elements, as it was in the last episode, Vito's story is essentially dead in the water.

--
H
Reply
post #884 of 1093
5/18/06 at 7:25pm

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

my god, if people just read my posts. i just explained 2 posts ago that i declare the stuff i write because that's what i believe. i couldn't give a rat's ass if you disagree, just back it up w/some hardcore evidence/logical argument even if included philosophical fallacies.

i don't need to write, "I THINK" everytime i'm already THINKING! duh! =). do you have to preface, "OKAY GUYS, LET ME TELL YOU, THIS IS WHAT I'M THINKING, GUYS! OKAY, IT's ONLY ME".

it's obvious to me as what ALL of you post is obvious to you. for example, should i rebutt your perception of "insular." by saying, "oh man, but that's only YOUR point of view.".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holadem
But mostly, you are too goddamn insular .


Yi Feng, I gotta say, I just LOVE how you boldly declare this sort of stuff as if it were some obvious, fundamental law of writing. And this isn't the first time you've done that. Really, just who do you think you are dealing with on these boards? .

--
H


thus far, i haven't heard one logical rebuttal (in the "classical" form). stories have beginning, middle and ends. you've just given me beginnings and maybe some middles but no ends for those aforementioned storylines. that isn't classical at all. deux ex machina is fine if the episode hits the story point home at the end of the ep. yet when the ep ends, we're left with, OK, this is a bonding period for chris+paulie. alright, that's it? c'mon, that's ridiculous. it's not only not classica, narcisstic, it's godamn poor writing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gatie
YiFeng, I'll give you an example of how the last episode was classic storytelling, when all of the detractors (including you) are screaming it is not. The detractors are complaining that Bobby's attackers are just another "loose end". That a "real" mob story would tell how they found them and sought revenge, but Chase just leaves it "up in the air", another "unfinished plotline". But that is not the story (classic or otherwise) that Chase wants. Bobby's attackers are just a deux ex machina for the actual story Chase wants to tell - that of Tony's relationship to Janice and his jealousy, envy and anger towards her because she doesn't "deserve" her mental illness, she didn't "earn" it. Chase didn't have Bobby get attacked to show the ruthlessness of the Mob in exacting revenge any more than he had Paulie and Christopher shoot and subsequently lose the Chechnyan hitman just so he could have him come back to haunt them later. Chase sets up plotlines to show the interaction of the family, not the outer actions of the mob. You call this "avant guard", but it is only avant guard if you are looking for a story about mob action and revenge. Those of us looking for a study in family and relationships see very well why Bobby is not avenged and why the Chechnyan stays missing, i.e. why there is not "payback": Our payback was in the talk with Janice and the look in Tony's eye when he gets the money, or the conversation between Paulie and Christopher in the freezing van. Our story did not care about the retribution of either Bobby or the hitman, because it was simply a couple of plot devices used to tell the real story. Taken this way, there is no way we can say it is not a "classic" form of story telling. It's just that some of the most interesting action scenes are really just plot devices to set up what most of the detractors consider a "waste of time" and "long and boring".
Reply
post #885 of 1093
5/18/06 at 7:47pm

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
thus far, i haven't heard one logical rebuttal (in the "classical" form). stories have beginning, middle and ends. you've just given me beginnings and maybe some middles but no ends for those aforementioned storylines. that isn't classical at all. deux ex machina is fine if the episode hits the story point home at the end of the ep. yet when the ep ends, we're left with, OK, this is a bonding period for chris+paulie. alright, that's it? c'mon, that's ridiculous. it's not only not classica, narcisstic, it's godamn poor writing.

Uhhm, you do realize that this is not self-contained episodic television? We haven't seen an ending because it has not ended yet. As far as the ending of that particular episode, we learned a few things: The tough, streetwise characters are useless in the wilderness (similar to Vito in NH). The miscommunication, as symbolized by the hysterical cell phone conversation, is rampant in the Family. Do I have to go on? This is a chracter drama, we learn about the characters in bits and pieces and the ultimate payoff is not untill the end. Moreover, the ultimate payoff just may be the journey itself (wouldn't that fry everyone's ass ). You don't like it because it is not a 1 hour self-contained episode each week. But that does not mean it is not an epic story that is told in classical form.
Reply
post #886 of 1093
5/18/06 at 7:47pm

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
thus far, i haven't heard one logical rebuttal (in the "classical" form). stories have beginning, middle and ends. you've just given me beginnings and maybe some middles but no ends for those aforementioned storylines. that isn't classical at all. deux ex machina is fine if the episode hits the story point home at the end of the ep. yet when the ep ends, we're left with, OK, this is a bonding period for chris+paulie. alright, that's it? c'mon, that's ridiculous. it's not only not classica, narcisstic, it's godamn poor writing.
None of this addresses your assertion that this form of storytelling provides less insight into the characters - my point of contention. As for my "rebuttal", it is of no less substance than your argument. You want a meatier response? Provide a meatier conjecture .

--
H
Reply
post #887 of 1093
5/19/06 at 6:02am

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

I'm a lurker here in the Sopranos thread and you guys have completely lost me with all this classical story telling stuff and what not, but anyway...

I love the Sopranos and have pretty much liked every season, whether they focus more on Tony's mob family or more on his actual family. The problem I have with this season so far is its not really focussing on either. Yeah we get all excited by the first couple of episodes with Tony getting shot and expecting some big changes to come with regard to his character, whether it be him turning a little soft and trying to get out of the "life" in order to enjoy what he discovers is really important...his true family. Or he just goes balls to the walls and takes the Jersey mob family into a wild tailspin ultimately leading to his demise. With this being the last season (or I guess first part of the last season?) you expect these episodes to lead you to some sort of conclusion. Now I realize the Sopranos is not a normal television drama and they do follow a different set of rules with regard to open ended plot items that are never resolved, and I'm completely cool with that, but they better at least take Tony to some sort of conclusion. And up to now the only thing that I can continue to think about this damn season is that a gay mobster is up in Maine eating pancakes and having firefighter fantasies!!!!

I'm looking for one of Tony's families to go somewhere with the story and its just not happening yet. I could care less if there is one more bullet fired on screen, but at least move the story forward with Tony is some way, shape or form.

What do we have, like two episodes left until the hiatus? Whats the conclusion going to be at the end of this first part of the season...Vito's gay and Tony has issues with offing him? Thats what this whole partial season story arc is going to be about? Even after they laid the ground work for a very compelling and drama-oriented internal struggle within Tony and we get "Johnny Cakes"?!?!?!

I'm sorry I love the show for what it is....a family drama. The only problem is, there is no family drama arc really going on right now. Yeah there are tid bits of it here and there, but it looks like its going to be spread out all the way to the conclusion after the hiatus. So explain to me why I have invested my time into the show this season? I would have been better off recording every episode and then watching them before the next part starts up, at least then maybe I would get the feeling of some sort of resolution. Right now I still enjoy it and there have been some really great moments this season, but right now it just feels empty. Here's hoping they give us some sort of conclusion prior to the break coming in a couple of episodes.

Sorry for the rant, but I finally just caught the episode last night.

Nib High Football Rules!!!
Reply
post #888 of 1093
5/19/06 at 6:06am

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

ya'll keep saying so, but you're not listing specifics. what substance are you referring to? another general pot-shot at nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holadem
None of this addresses your assertion that this form of storytelling provides less insight into the characters - my point of contention. As for my "rebuttal", it is of no less substance than your argument. You want a meatier response? Provide a meatier conjecture .

--
H


ah, but nothing's been paid off since season3. s1&2 had pay off's with the mother dying that wrapped everything else up. it could have ended w/s2 and i would've died and gone to heaven. but it didn't. another example of poor writing. i wonder how vito's thread will end. i keep seeing him getting capped everytime he appears onscreen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gatie
Uhhm, you do realize that this is not self-contained episodic television? We haven't seen an ending because it has not ended yet. As far as the ending of that particular episode, we learned a few things: The tough, streetwise characters are useless in the wilderness (similar to Vito in NH). The miscommunication, as symbolized by the hysterical cell phone conversation, is rampant in the Family. Do I have to go on? This is a chracter drama, we learn about the characters in bits and pieces and the ultimate payoff is not untill the end. Moreover, the ultimate payoff just may be the journey itself (wouldn't that fry everyone's ass ). You don't like it because it is not a 1 hour self-contained episode each week. But that does not mean it is not an epic story that is told in classical form.
Reply
post #889 of 1093
5/19/06 at 7:27am

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
ah, but nothing's been paid off since season3. s1&2 had pay off's with the mother dying that wrapped everything else up. it could have ended w/s2 and i would've died and gone to heaven. but it didn't. another example of poor writing. i wonder how vito's thread will end. i keep seeing him getting capped everytime he appears onscreen.

Again, nothings been paid off for you, but those of us who view it as a character piece think there has been a great payoff since season 2. I know more about Tony now than I did then. That's my "payoff".
Reply
post #890 of 1093
5/19/06 at 7:38am

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
ya'll keep saying so, but you're not listing specifics. what substance are you referring to? another general pot-shot at nothing.
YiFeng,

Why
do
you
think
classical
storytelling
provides
more
insight
into
characters
than
avant-garde/experimental
type
?

That is what I have been trying to get you to explain (aka substantiate), rather than just throwing it out there like some obvious truth. You may very well be right, I am only asking to be convinced with arguments, not apparently baseless conjectures.

--
H
Reply
post #891 of 1093
5/19/06 at 8:25am

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
I'm a lurker here in the Sopranos thread and you guys have completely lost me with all this classical story telling stuff and what not, but anyway...

*whisper* Trust me, we are all completely lost on that point. *whisper*
Reply
post #892 of 1093
5/19/06 at 9:15am

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gatie
*whisper* Trust me, we are all completely lost on that point. *whisper*

Not lost. Bored.
Reply
post #893 of 1093
5/19/06 at 9:24am

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
I'm a lurker here in the Sopranos thread and you guys have completely lost me with all this classical story telling stuff and what not, but anyway...

Just skip those posts. They add nothing to the thread and you'll find the whole thing reads much faster that way.

What some people seem not to understand is that The Sopranos is akin to a book or series of books that is being serialized in a magazine. Each week the writer creates, and we get, a new chapter. The writer cannot go back and edit the earlier chapters, he's stuck with those because he's publishing as he goes along, and we've already read them. So if he changes his mind about something, he either has to leave a thread dangling or cheat the continuity or he has to give up on the new idea in the name of consistency.

Unlike a novelist who writes a complete manuscript and then hands it in to a publisher, he can't go back and rewrite the earilier chapters to bring them in line with the later ones. He can't edit, he can't revise.

In addition, since this is TV, he's dependent on other people to get his story "told", and that puts a whole other set of constraints on him. Certain actors may have to get a given amount of screen time or number of episodes by contract. Other actors can be lost due to illness, contract disputes, even death. Then the producers must choose between losing the character and adjusting the story or recasting the role and ticking off some of the fans.

Finally, of course, the chapters aren't going to be self-contained, even some "volumes" (seasons) in the series may not be, just as some books end in cliff-hangers "to be continued in the next". The overall shape of the series may still be as "classical" (to use an absolutely meaningless and still undefined term) as anyone could like. Presumably if you only read act I of Hamlet or the first three chapters of Don Quixote they don't seem very "classical", either.

And last of all, this is a where the writer may have an ultimate destination in mind, but where the "publisher" (and the actors and crew) have tremendous input into how many "chapters" there are. If I'm a novelist and I feel like I'm about at the halfway mark of my plot when I hit page 150 of the manuscript, I can plan on finishing around page 300. It isn't likely that the publisher is going to call me and say, "Sorry, we can only take 200 pages, better hurry it up" or "On second thought, we'd prefer 400 pages, can you stretch it out a bit? We'll pay you a whole bunch more money!"

And if I dig in my heels and say "stop" at page 300, I'm not throwing a bunch of people I've known liked for the better part of a decade out of work. That's what a producer does when he pulls the plug on a TV show. Think about it. That's like having a company you've worked for, maybe in the best and best-paying job you've ever had or are likely to have, suddenly close its doors not after a few bad quarters, but after its best sales year ever. That's why most shows end up hanging on a couple of years longer than they should, and end up losing artistic steam and ratings until they are inglorious cancelled instead of going out on top.

Like Joe Straczynski with Babylon 5, David Chase may have had the last scene of the last episode of The Sopranos in his head since before he shot the pilot, and have been building toward that in various ways since then, but have to deal with all the zigs and zags and uncertainties in between. We'll know what things have been "left hanging" (or not, some things are just incidents and local color, never meant to be resolved, even in "classical stories") when it is over - not before.

Regards,

Joe
Reply
post #894 of 1093
5/19/06 at 9:31am

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
ah, but nothing's been paid off since season3.

I just have to address this. The Adriana/FBI thread has paid off. The Tony/Carmella separation has paid off. The Ralph Ciffaretta thread has paid off. The Furio/Carmella thread has paid off. The Jackie Jr. thread has paid off. The Tony Blundetto/Phil Leotardo thread paid off (and will continue to pay off in the future). The Paulie Walnuts and his mother thread is still paying off. Most of Tony's affairs have paid off. The Christopher/Drugs thread has and still continues to pay off. The Vito getting serviced in the pickup that happened all the way back last season (when everyone said it was a "loose thread") is now paying off. The Uncle Junior thread is still weaving it's way in and out and may yet pay off (then again maybe it won't). The Big Pussy thread paid off in season 2, but it's implications are still felt, i.e. Carmella's view of a independent woman running a semi-legitimate buisiness.

And almost every week, when Tony sits in the shrink's chair, the entire series pays off when you get to see inside of the brutal man you hate to love (or love to hate).
Reply
post #895 of 1093
5/19/06 at 10:01am

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gatie
*whisper* Trust me, we are all completely lost on that point. *whisper*

Haha...glad I'm not the only one!
Reply
post #896 of 1093
5/19/06 at 10:09am

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

joe, if you watched s1 bonus/extra, chase has already stated to peter b. that sopranos was meant to be a feature film (with the mother-son-psychiatry plot only) that got turned into a TV series. he has no idea what the end is and is making it up as he is going along. it's DEFINITELY not b5 for sure. not even at b5's worst. i'm willing to go out on a limb that there'll be many things unfulfilled by the end of spring 2007, many threads inconclusive at best.

jeff, adrian/fbi has paid off how? that's not an example, just a list. in what ways? t/c separation has paid off how? the talk over the house? the fact that t still lies to his wife? that he almost banged another chic? how? ralph's paid off how? do you know what paid off means?
Reply
post #897 of 1093
5/19/06 at 10:34am

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
do you know what paid off means?

Do you? It has come to a resolution, an ending, a purpose, a furtherance of our understanding. As an example, the whole Ralph storyline was to show us the duality of Tony's personality when it comes to emotions vs. business. He didn't kill Ralph when he killed the stripper, although he got really mad, because she was just business and Ralph was a "good earner". It took Ralph killing the horse, "a beautiful defenseless animal" for Tony to finally put a stop to Ralph. The ironinc thing is that Tony could not relate to the stripper as "beautiful and defenseless" because she was part of "business" Tony. Pie-O-Mine was part of the other Tony, the one who we saw for the first time actually happy, sitting peacefully in the stall with the horse and the goat, away from the burdens of his mafia position. Tony's duality (often symbolized or depicted by animals - ducks, horse, the bear) between 'father' and 'Godfather', between good man and thug, is the main conflict in the show, as was clearly seen in the coma sequences this year. The purpose for Ralph was not to show that Tony and Christopher are good at chopping up a body. It was to show that although business Tony is heartless and ruthless, the other Tony is sensitive and caring enough (in his own way) to avenge a dead horse. The two sides of Tony were never displayed more clearly than the contrasting scenes of Tony and the stripper vs. Tony and the horse.
Reply
post #898 of 1093
5/19/06 at 11:13am

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
joe, if you watched s1 bonus/extra, chase has already stated to peter b. that sopranos was meant to be a feature film (with the mother-son-psychiatry plot only) that got turned into a TV series. he has no idea what the end is and is making it up as he is going along.

Did Chase say "he's making it up as he goes along", because I don't remember hearing that. (I don't own the set, I rented it from Netflix years ago.) Or is this just more of you putting words in other people's mouths and generally gassing around to no purpose?

I'm guessing the latter. Naturually it never crosses the mind of YiFeng, world-renowned literary critic, that in the transition from movie to series David Chase could have come up with another ending to his story - or that in the wake of Nancy Marchand's death he could have envisioned another way to get to the same basic conclusion. (As JMS did when Michael O'Hare was replaced as the series lead.) No, David Chase is just a bad writer who doesn't know what he's doing because his work doesn't conform the the third- through sixth-hand theories completely misunderstood and then endlessly regurgitated by someone who, as far as I know, has never had so much as a letter to the editor published, much less written or produced for the screen or for television.

Quote:
jeff, adrian/fbi has paid off how?

By her death you clueless wonder! You could lift Adrianna's entire arc and edit into a TV mini-series about the rise, fall and eventual destruction of a mob girlfriend. That was a classical tragedy with a beginning, a middle and an end, told in a three act structure that anyone who actually understands drama would recognize. (And I've worked in the theater on and off for over 30 years, have written produced sketches and one act plays as well as writing for an acting in student films, so yes, I have a little actual insight into the process. Which is one reason I don't cry "this is lousy writing" everytime a show does something I don't like or don't understand - which seems to be the default position for certain folks here and in the Lost thread. I'm actually willing to consider the possibility that the problem may lie on my side of the screen. Maybe I'm guilty of "lousy viewing". )

Quote:
do you know what paid off means?

Do you? Because you give no sign of it. Maybe if you weren't so arrogant and condescending, and took trouble to explain yourself and define your terms instead of demanding that others define theirs, your posts would be less annoying. And less of a joke.

You evidently think you know what "paid off" means and Jeff doesn't. So why didn't you explain it to him instead of just scoring cheap points by declaring your intellectual superiority and mocking him?

BTW do you have any idea how unintentionally ironic your signature is?

Regards,

Joe
Reply
post #899 of 1093
5/19/06 at 11:24am

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Quote:
By her death you clueless wonder! You could lift Adrianna's entire arc and edit into a TV mini-series about the rise, fall and eventually destruction of a mob girlfriend.

Thanks Joe, you said what I could not bring myself to say for fear of being labeled ignorant. I purposefully did not choose the Adriana arc because what you say is so obvious I thought either YiFeng knew a whole lot more about storytelling or I was missing something due to lack of knowledge. Glad to know my first instincts were correct, despite my poor "Literature for Geeks" arts education.
Reply
post #900 of 1093
5/19/06 at 6:06pm

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

It's a TV show. I've followed the thread and I know the reasons behind it, and I'm still going to say that I see it as unfortunate that human beings resort to attacks over differing opinions of a TV show.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: TV Programming
Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Entertainment › TV Programming › SOPRANOS Season 6: Season Finally!!!.. Episode 12: "KAISHA"